I7 vs 760i

[Dr.Amro]

For you guys who chose the I7 over the 760i or vice versa , what was the reason ?
For me i chose the 760 for two main reasons:
1. I think 300 miles as a range is very primitive for a car like the I7 and i am sure that within a couple of years that range can be at least 500-600 so why buy now and a year or two later a new one comes out with double the range.
2. The performance was also a major factor , 0-60 in 4.7 s for the I7 vs 4.2 s for the 760 i.
Glad to hear your opinions.

[frankchn]

300 miles is enough for me and fast charging where I live is usually not a big deal. I am also leasing the car, so I’m 3 years if there is better battery tech, I’ll just get that one instead.

I currently daily a Taycan Turbo S, and I just don’t find myself using that sort of performance much and find myself just cruising around using InnoDrive (porsche’s ACC) so I don’t really care as much.

[Spencenyc]

Thanks for sharing….

I chose the I7 with the M sport package… I'm having second thoughts tho.

Having never have had a E car I'm concerned about battery life. Even though I don't drive on long trips I wonder after using all of the functionality of the vehicle (rear screen etc- I have a young daughter, auto doors…) i wonder how much the battery will hold up.

I agree on the performance component as well. I'm coming out of an m850i msport and enjoy the performance…

[frankchn]

The drivetrain is going to use up the vast majority of energy from the battery, so you don’t need to worry about the auxiliary systems much. It is not going to make a difference in the vast majority of cases unless you are idling the car for 10 hours or something.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by Dr.Amro

1. I think 300 miles as a range is very primitive for a car like the I7 and i am sure that within a couple of years that range can be at least 500-600 so why buy now and a year or two later a new one comes out with double the range.

It will be more than a couple years for more range. Existing battery tech is kind of maxed out already. New tech battery tech is being played with, but none that exist currently seem poised to step up to the challenge. Absent a major breakthrough, it will be a very long time till we reach the 500 mile barrier while still being ale to drive "normal" (not hyper-miling). Even if we had that breakthrough today, it will take many years to bring it to mainstream production ready products.

[AlteBMW]

If 300 miles is reliably available, that'd work for me, but the mileage estimates are like the EPA MPG numbers - not real world. But this is very personal and also may depend on whether you have another IC vehicle available. We make one trip each year that is 290 miles and another than is 260. That's too close for comfort, for electric. But other than those trips, my longest is 85 miles, with charging available at both ends. Still, when I had the choice of i7 or 760, I chose 760. Maybe next time for electric.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

It will be more than a couple years for more range. Existing battery tech is kind of maxed out already. New tech battery tech is being played with, but none that exist currently seem poised to step up to the challenge. Absent a major breakthrough, it will be a very long time till we reach the 500 mile barrier while still being ale to drive "normal" (not hyper-miling). Even if we had that breakthrough today, it will take many years to bring it to mainstream production ready products.

Lucid Air already beats the 500 mile mark, so it isn't years out. 300 mile range is fine for 99% of people, just rent or keep an ICE for road trips.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

Lucid Air already beats the 500 mile mark, so it isn't years out. 300 mile range is fine for 99% of people, just rent or keep an ICE for road trips.

Which is why I qualified it as "normal" driving. It's not normal to charge to 100% on the battery (and it's actually destructive to do so), and it's also not normal to drain the battery to zero either (and is also not recommended). Those are required to attain 500 miles. If you charge to 80% and don't drain past 20%, you are using the middle 60%. 60% of 500 is 300.

I presumed the OP was talking about "Normal" driving, so that's why I qualified it that way.

You can get more out of a Tesla than most do, but most drive normal so they under-perform rated range.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Which is why I qualified it as "normal" driving. It's not normal to charge to 100% on the battery (and it's actually destructive to do so), and it's also not normal to drain the battery to zero either (and is also not recommended). Those are required to attain 500 miles. If you charge to 80% and don't drain past 20%, you are using the middle 60%. 60% of 500 is 300.

I presumed the OP was talking about "Normal" driving, so that's why I qualified it that way.

You can get more out of a Tesla than most do, but most drive normal so they under-perform rated range.

If you are on a road trip though, charging to 100% is not going to hurt the vehicle. It is only charging to 100% all the time that affects the battery, and honestly DC fast charging often, even to 80% is far worse for a BEV than a few random 100% charges.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

DC fast charging often, even to 80% is far worse for a BEV than a few random 100% charges.

Which means if you don't want 3-6 hour long refills on your battery during a trip to eclipse the "Normal driving" range limits, you have to have to concede to damaging your battery.

Imagine shortening the life of an ICE if you ever want a 5 minute fill up at a gas station, but if you are wiling to take 3/4 of a tank that takes 3 hours it's fine.

It's not that these EV's suck, it's that the variables and concessions lead to decisions making and driving strategies that is very different from plug-in Hybrids or straight ICE's.

If one want's to transition into an EV, they either need to make some concessions on range, or they need to wait for the next generation of battery tech (that hasn't even been invented yet). They wait for that may be longer than expected.

[Dr.Amro]

Originally Posted by AlteBMW

If 300 miles is reliably available, that'd work for me, but the mileage estimates are like the EPA MPG numbers - not real world. But this is very personal and also may depend on whether you have another IC vehicle available. We make one trip each year that is 290 miles and another than is 260. That's too close for comfort, for electric. But other than those trips, my longest is 85 miles, with charging available at both ends. Still, when I had the choice of i7 or 760, I chose 760. Maybe next time for electric.

That's exactly what I thought of , Next one is electric

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Which means if you don't want 3-6 hour long refills on your battery during a trip to eclipse the "Normal driving" range limits, you have to have to concede to damaging your battery.

Imagine shortening the life of an ICE if you ever want a 5 minute fill up at a gas station, but if you are wiling to take 3/4 of a tank that takes 3 hours it's fine.

It's not that these EV's suck, it's that the variables and concessions lead to decisions making and driving strategies that is very different from plug-in Hybrids or straight ICE's.

If one want's to transition into an EV, they either need to make some concessions on range, or they need to wait for the next generation of battery tech (that hasn't even been invented yet). They wait for that may be longer than expected.

Except it isn't that big of a hit, at all. The batteries are warrantied for 8 years/100,000 miles if they were that sensitive to things, as you claim, then BMW and all other auto makers are going to lose Billions. The simple fact of the matter is that constant DC charging isn't great for a BEV, and if you cannot plug in to AC charge at home (level 2 EVSE) then a BEV isn't the best choice if it is going to be your only vehicle right now. Since this is a vehicle that starts at $117k, I highly doubt that someone buying one would have this as their only vehicle. My Taycan 4S CT is coming in at $140k, and I am keeping my '20 Cayenne E Hybrid as a trip vehicle.

[frankchn]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

Which means if you don't want 3-6 hour long refills on your battery during a trip to eclipse the "Normal driving" range limits, you have to have to concede to damaging your battery.

Imagine shortening the life of an ICE if you ever want a 5 minute fill up at a gas station, but if you are wiling to take 3/4 of a tank that takes 3 hours it's fine.

It's not that these EV's suck, it's that the variables and concessions lead to decisions making and driving strategies that is very different from plug-in Hybrids or straight ICE's.

If one want's to transition into an EV, they either need to make some concessions on range, or they need to wait for the next generation of battery tech (that hasn't even been invented yet). They wait for that may be longer than expected.

Yeah DCFC all the time definitely impacts battery life, but that is something for the 2nd owner to worry about if you are leasing

Ultimately, I think a EV makes sense if you don't plan on having long road trips frequently and have access to L2 charging at home. In exchange, you get a really smooth and quiet drivetrain and generally lower per-mile fuel costs.

I still wish they brought the M760ex to the US, but alas.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

Except it isn't that big of a hit, at all. The batteries are warrantied for 8 years/100,000 miles if they were that sensitive to things, as you claim, then BMW and all other auto makers are going to lose Billions. The simple fact of the matter is that constant DC charging isn't great for a BEV, and if you cannot plug in to AC charge at home (level 2 EVSE) then a BEV isn't the best choice if it is going to be your only vehicle right now. Since this is a vehicle that starts at $117k, I highly doubt that someone buying one would have this as their only vehicle. My Taycan 4S CT is coming in at $140k, and I am keeping my '20 Cayenne E Hybrid as a trip vehicle.

After 48 months of analyzing EV battery health, it found that vehicles which leveraged DC Fast Charging more than three times per month in seasonal or hot climates had their batteries degrade 10% more than those that never used DC Fast Charging.

https://www.dcbel.energy/blog/2022/0...ast%20Charging.

for some, that 10% matters. on a car rated at 500 miles, that's 50 miles lost. Imagine being OK with an ICE that had that contingency. With the cost of battery replacement, that matters to some of us.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by frankchn

Yeah DCFC all the time definitely impacts battery life, but that is something for the 2nd owner to worry about if you are leasing

Ultimately, I think a EV makes sense if you don't plan on having long road trips frequently and have access to L2 charging at home. In exchange, you get a really smooth and quiet drivetrain and generally lower per-mile fuel costs.

True that the problem matters more for the 2nd owner, but that impacts resale. Battery state of health is easy to measure, so it's not like you can easily cheat the system.

There is also cold climate to consider, cold weather really impacts range, up to 25% range loss. Probably fine in warm climates, but in some climates this is going to impact the bottom line a lot of the year.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by chad86tsi

After 48 months of analyzing EV battery health, it found that vehicles which leveraged DC Fast Charging more than three times per month in seasonal or hot climates had their batteries degrade 10% more than those that never used DC Fast Charging.

https://www.dcbel.energy/blog/2022/0...ast%20Charging.

for some, that 10% matters. on a car rated at 500 miles, that's 50 miles lost. Imagine being OK with an ICE that had that contingency. With the cost of battery replacement, that matters to some of us.

Anyone buying an EV who would need to DC fast charge that often made a huge mistake. A road trip, and using it occasionally will jot degrade the battery at the same rate. Which comes back to my statement that the battery warranty basically makes it safe to own an EV for 8 years/100,000 miles, at which time it would be up to the owner if they are willing to accept the degradation risk. You are also forgetting, these are 6 figure vehicles, and very unlikely to be the owners only vehicle, so again, if worried about long trips and battery issues, take a different car. As far as ICE vehicles not suffering from loss of range, that is true, but there is a lot more moving parts and more costly things that can go wrong with one, so that is a different risk assessment to how long you keep a vehicle.