[Quadruple VANOS]

The rear 3/4 picture makes this thing look like a super-sleek minivan.

[JJacksonIII]

Originally Posted by Quadruple VANOS

The rear 3/4 picture makes this thing look like a super-sleek minivan.

Yep. From the back it screams mommobile. I wanted to like it and the idea of the wagon as a daily started to grow on me. But not this version.

[Bahram]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

If you really cared about sustainability you’d drive your existing ICE car into the ground. What do you think happens to your car when you trade it in on an EV? It’s still out there on the road in the hands of another driver.

I’m all for people buying what they want but that reasoning for buying an EV is logically false from an environmental sustainability perspective.

In principal, I totally agree with you. I wouldn't however strongly believe my own logic is sound, and others are at a minimum uneducated. Nothing is black and white.

I clearly said, if you care about rare Earth matterials, you wouldn't buy a new phone or tablet every year, and dump the old one in the trash bin. However, you might be amazed that prevailing logic may require rip and replace in some cases. In order to save environment and resources, at some point you need to dump your home's old furnace and buy an electric heatpump. Or dump your old and slow, low resolution laptop, and buy a new one.

Buying EVs is exactly the same logical concept.

Additionally, new and prevailing technologies require market support. I feel aside from our own pleasure we need to support the new technologies, so someday it would be accecible to everyone, even if they wouldn't pay $60k for a 2014 i3. Used EV market is a great start, but it requires we buy expensive new ones, if we want to have a $5k Nissan EV or $10k BMW EV for our kids to be able to afford, and that is where it will make the big difference in a short time.

[Scrapula]

Originally Posted by JJacksonIII

Yep. From the back it screams mommobile. I wanted to like it and the idea of the wagon as a daily started to grow on me. But not this version.

Wagons are really great for hauling band equipment. You don’t want to lift a heavy bass amp over the lip of an SUV.

[2srsman]

[Zulu Saffa]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

I really appreciate all the concern over sourcing of rare materials yet the willful ignorance of the vast impacts caused by a century of wars, political poisoning, and environmental degradation caused by the insatiable appetite for fossil fuels.

If one is so worried about the impact of resource extraction, then one side should not be encouraging the other to drive a different type of car, but instead should be encouraging them to take a train, a bus, a bike, or to walk.

This thread has already devolved with commentary found in many other places, instead of a focus on the tease of the new i5 touring. Is this what will happen with every new electric BMW reveal? For the next 5 years? It’s frankly tiring and distracting; we get it: you hate EVs, but let the rest of us enjoy the positivity of a new wagon reveal. That should be considered a win considering the seeming fate of wagons.

Now BMW: bring this one to America!!

Bruh, its cool. We have paper straws now.

[Scrapula]

Originally Posted by Zulu Saffa

Bruh, its cool. We have paper straws now.

We have had compostable plastic straws for years.

[BimmerMan33]

The i5T EV is a good option for younger BMW enthusiasts who are ready to adopt EVs at this time.
A large chunk of BMW enthusiasts on this forum still hold older BMWs as the “ultimate driving machines” and are not ready to switch to EVs yet!
For the latter group, mostly this car does nothing..

[Scrapula]

Originally Posted by BimmerMan33

The i5T EV is a good option for younger BMW enthusiasts who are ready to adopt EVs at this time.
A large chunk of BMW enthusiasts on this forum still hold older BMWs as the “ultimate driving machines” and are not ready to switch to EVs yet!
For the latter group, mostly this car does nothing..

Also a good option for us older folks who now just want to drive in quiet luxury. I found that when I hit 60, I wanted to block out noise from other vehicles as well as my own. The i5 had the lowest dB during tests on ArenaEV. I’m also more sensitive to odors now. No combustion smells at all.

My other choice was a Lucid Air Touring, but it was not a BMW.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by JJacksonIII

Yep. From the back it screams mommobile. I wanted to like it and the idea of the wagon as a daily started to grow on me. But not this version.

I love wagons (I owned a custom ordered CTS V wagon with manual transmission) and was really disappointed the M3 touring wasn’t coming to North America. The new 5 series is just so large that the touring does look a bit minivan like.

I find though seeing the car in person makes a huge difference, BMW’s in particular often look quite a bit different in real life versus photographs.

[Bob in IL]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

Also a good option for us older folks who now just want to drive in quiet luxury. I found that when I hit 60, I wanted to block out noise from other vehicles as well as my own. The i5 had the lowest dB during tests on ArenaEV. I’m also more sensitive to odors now. No combustion smells at all.

My other choice was a Lucid Air Touring, but it was not a BMW.

I've found the older I get, the more important dB levels become on my list of things to research when researching a new vehicle purchase.

[BSfmAZ]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

You do know that BMW uses a wound rotor synchronous motor that requires zero rare earth metals as there is no permanent magnet, unlike other motors like Tesla. You are in a BMW forum. At least be somewhat knowledgeable about the technology that they use.

So no batteries, just a motor powered by????

[Scrapula]

Originally Posted by BSfmAZ

So no batteries, just a motor powered by????

Lithium is in a battery cell because it has one electron that rotates around the nucleus. Sodium is on the same column in the periodic table and can also be used but it is less efficient (down row in the periodic table). Lithium is found on every continent and in salt water, so virtually everywhere on the planet.

Each battery cell is contained in a cylinder or pouch, depending on the engine design, within the battery. The ion moves because of a positive to negative charge. Many EVs use a permanent magnet in the motor, which are made from rare earth metals like Cobalt but those manufacturers are moving to iron as it is more abundant. Most of those old photos of Cobalt mining in the Congo was for laptop computers, just as a point of reference. The rotor spins which creates a magnetic field. That is an asynchronous induction motor.

BMW uses a wound rotor rather than a permanent magnet. They use brushes that transmit electricity via a commutator on the rotor. So, no permanent magnet in the rotor, and that is the component made of rare earth metals. BMW is more ‘earth friendly’. Plus the engine is more efficient as there is no loss from having a permanent magnet when coasting.

There are many more differences in EV engines and designs. It is more of a combination of chemistry and physics vs mechanical force. Thinking they are all the same, is like thinking all petrol engines are an iron block with a carburetor and 4 cylinders.

[JJacksonIII]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

I love wagons (I owned a custom ordered CTS V wagon with manual transmission) and was really disappointed the M3 touring wasn’t coming to North America. The new 5 series is just so large that the touring does look a bit minivan like.

I find though seeing the car in person makes a huge difference, BMW’s in particular often look quite a bit different in real life versus photographs.

I'm sure you're right. I personally find myself grimmacing at a new design and then settle in on it after a while. I am afterall driving the LCI X7 around.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

Lithium is in a battery cell because it has one electron that rotates around the nucleus. Sodium is on the same column in the periodic table and can also be used but it is less efficient (down row in the periodic table).

We will start here:
Lithium is an alkali metal with the atomic number = 3 and an atomic mass of 6.941 g/mol. This means that lithium has 3 protons, 3 electrons and 4 neutrons (6.941 - 3 = ~4). Being an alkali metal, lithium is a soft, flammable, and highly reactive metal that tends to form hydroxides. It also has a pretty low density and under standard conditions, it is the least dense solid element.

There are many articles on Lithium mining and extraction Here is a start:
The Paradox of Lithium
To give an idea of this effect, producing a battery weighing 1,100 pounds emits over 70% more carbon dioxide than producing a conventional car in Germany, according to research by the automotive consultancy Berylls Strategy Advisors.

Furthermore, lithium mining requires a lot of water. To extract one ton of lithium requires about 500,000 liters of water, and can result in the poisoning of reservoirs and related health problems.
https://news.climate.columbia.edu/20...ox-of-lithium/

[Scrapula]

Lithium has one electron in its outer shell, which it makes it act as an ion.

[Dgjo2022X5MC]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

If you really cared about sustainability you’d drive your existing ICE car into the ground. What do you think happens to your car when you trade it in on an EV? It’s still out there on the road in the hands of another driver.

I’m all for people buying what they want but that reasoning for buying an EV is logically false from an environmental sustainability perspective.

Rolling a grenade into the conversion, but I think commercial beef farming greenhouse gas is worse than transportation greenhouse gasses. So let’s all go vegan and still drive the shit out of our M/ICE cars!

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by Dgjo2022X5MC

Rolling a grenade into the conversion, but I think commercial beef farming greenhouse gas is worse than transportation greenhouse gasses. So let’s all go vegan and still drive the shit out of our M/ICE cars!

Or go vegan and ride an ebike. 🤯

[RichardInCA]

Someone needs to figure out regenerative posting as a source of charging. If we could harness all the energy that goes into internet comments, we’d have a perfect renewable.

[Nahlem]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

We will start here:
Lithium is an alkali metal with the atomic number = 3 and an atomic mass of 6.941 g/mol. This means that lithium has 3 protons, 3 electrons and 4 neutrons (6.941 - 3 = ~4). Being an alkali metal, lithium is a soft, flammable, and highly reactive metal that tends to form hydroxides. It also has a pretty low density and under standard conditions, it is the least dense solid element.

There are many articles on Lithium mining and extraction Here is a start:
The Paradox of Lithium
To give an idea of this effect, producing a battery weighing 1,100 pounds emits over 70% more carbon dioxide than producing a conventional car in Germany, according to research by the automotive consultancy Berylls Strategy Advisors.

Furthermore, lithium mining requires a lot of water. To extract one ton of lithium requires about 500,000 liters of water, and can result in the poisoning of reservoirs and related health problems.
https://news.climate.columbia.edu/20...ox-of-lithium/

Well lithium is one of the minerals need it can also be extracted in ways like pumping in brine into pans allowing the liquid to evaporate and separating out the lithium using electrolysis. Witch a larger part of the production the normal mining of it.

For example oil sand is extremely toxic in its production.

Does it make lithium fairer not in all aspects but in the long run then yes. Is lithium the worst of the environmental affects from batteries no it is copper,aluminium,cobalt & nickel all of these materials do exist in ICE car as well for example. There is simply not enough platinum and rhodium going round on this planet to satisfy the collective demand of automotive emission-control systems
and all of these other areas.

So even if we never switched from ICE to EV we will simply hit an dead end sooner then later.

But what we can do is making sure that if we can scale up synthetic fuels to be used in our current combustion engines that isn't to destructive for our local environment then that would be great combination using E-fuels with EVs. Then we will have come a long way on the road to sustainability even though there isn't something called "true sustainability" at least not in our industrial world, but that doesn't mean we can't make our industrial world be less destructive for the environment until we have better tech in place.

If E-fuels could be scaled up and we could keep using current ICE engines maybe even the use certain parts in cars today could be reduced or remove entirely reducing the raw materials needed for cars in general and also hitting lower weights witch we all want in our sports cars without needing to remove the whole interior of the car for it.

[ChrisM4]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

We will start here:
Lithium is an alkali metal with the atomic number = 3 and an atomic mass of 6.941 g/mol. This means that lithium has 3 protons, 3 electrons and 4 neutrons (6.941 - 3 = ~4). Being an alkali metal, lithium is a soft, flammable, and highly reactive metal that tends to form hydroxides. It also has a pretty low density and under standard conditions, it is the least dense solid element.

There are many articles on Lithium mining and extraction Here is a start:
The Paradox of Lithium
To give an idea of this effect, producing a battery weighing 1,100 pounds emits over 70% more carbon dioxide than producing a conventional car in Germany, according to research by the automotive consultancy Berylls Strategy Advisors.

Furthermore, lithium mining requires a lot of water. To extract one ton of lithium requires about 500,000 liters of water, and can result in the poisoning of reservoirs and related health problems.
https://news.climate.columbia.edu/20...ox-of-lithium/

Originally Posted by Nahlem

Well lithium is one of the minerals need it can also be extracted in ways like pumping in brine into pans allowing the liquid to evaporate and separating out the lithium using electrolysis. Witch a larger part of the production the normal mining of it.

For example oil sand is extremely toxic in its production.

Does it make lithium fairer not in all aspects but in the long run then yes. Is lithium the worst of the environmental affects from batteries no it is copper,aluminium,cobalt & nickel all of these materials do exist in ICE car as well for example. There is simply not enough platinum and rhodium going round on this planet to satisfy the collective demand of automotive emission-control systems
and all of these other areas.

So even if we never switched from ICE to EV we will simply hit an dead end sooner then later.

But what we can do is making sure that if we can scale up synthetic fuels to be used in our current combustion engines that isn't to destructive for our local environment then that would be great combination using E-fuels with EVs. Then we will have come a long way on the road to sustainability even though there isn't something called "true sustainability" at least not in our industrial world, but that doesn't mean we can't make our industrial world be less destructive for the environment until we have better tech in place.

If E-fuels could be scaled up and we could keep using current ICE engines maybe even the use certain parts in cars today could be reduced or remove entirely reducing the raw materials needed for cars in general and also [...]

On top of that there are no harmonized regulations for EV battery recycling and disposal. They don’t exist.

Regarding E-fuels what are the sources of these fuels? If you’re talking about ethanol or other vegetable based fuels you’re leveraging arable land and water to produce these that could alternatively be used to grow crops that could literally help solve world hunger.

Add on the fact that necessary infrastructure (power and charging) is at least 20 years away in North America and the environmental cost to manufacture and upgrade to that infrastructure.

Toyota’s former CEO had it right. Hybrids are the answer. Stop and go low speed city driving via battery, ability to charge via ICE/plug in, long range capability without a charging network. It’s a bridging technology to help reduce emissions until an alternative technology comes along. (Lithium powered EVs are not that technology)

[Nahlem]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

On top of that there are no harmonized regulations for EV battery recycling and disposal. They don’t exist.

Regarding E-fuels what are the sources of these fuels? If you’re talking about ethanol or other vegetable based fuels you’re leveraging arable land and water to produce these that could alternatively be used to grow crops that could literally help solve world hunger.

Add on the fact that necessary infrastructure (power and charging) is at least 20 years away in North America and the environmental cost to manufacture and upgrade to that infrastructure.

Toyota’s former CEO had it right. Hybrids are the answer. Stop and go low speed city driving via battery, ability to charge via ICE/plug in, long range capability without a charging network. It’s a bridging technology to help reduce emissions until an alternative technology comes along. (Lithium powered EVs are not that technology)

I am referring to fuels of the type produced in labs if that is possible to scale up to its great potential without environmental damage that would be awesome. Not the type of E-Fuels that need farming lands to be used. by-products from restaurants and such that can be used as e fuels are great but there is simply not enough of it.

Well no not 20 years away Tesla is enormous in the US and they will allow soon enough more people to charge on their networks maybe at max 5-6 years away while at the same time more new chargers will pop up. By today's standard yes 20 years away but these standards changes fast.

I don't dislike Toyotas CEO in that way but Toyota has been very late on the ball a lot lately seems to me like they are more mad at being left behind then anything else.

But as tech and batteries improves fast now we will se more batteries not only lithium, i doubt that lithium in its current form is what will be in Cars in the end.