[Maestro]

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

A missile fired from a fighter-interceptor? I don't think that the signal is strong enough to guarantee a detection. Plus, a spy satellite is not in an geostationary orbit, so a satellite may not be looking when the missile was fired.

Actually the Launch Detection Satellites which use infrared can detect very small amounts of heat. The US used them to track Russian Nuclear Subs and ships since they leave a heat signature in the water especially in shallow waters. These satellites are there 24/7 watching the entire region otherwise they would be useless for early warning of a missile launch.

The US came our in the first few days and said they did not detect anything which would lead them to believe the plane was shot down of blew up. Keep in mind ever if the satellites could not detect the air to air missile, the US seem pretty confident that if the plane blew up they would have detected it.

[Maestro]

For those who think they could possible find the plane if it is in fact at the bottom of the ocean, especially deep waters.

This plane was never found an it is believe to be sitting at the bottom of the great lakes in 3500 feet of water. It was lost in 1950 and they continue today to look for the plane.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwe...es_Flight_2501

[MattMD]

Plane could have went north over India undetected.

"We have many radar systems operating in this area, but nothing was picked up," Rear Admiral Sudhir Pillai, chief of staff of India's Andamans and Nicobar Command, told Reuters. "It's possible that the military radars were switched off as we operate on an 'as required' basis."

Separately, a defense source said that India did not keep its radar facilities operational at all times because of cost. Asked what the reason was, the source said: "Too expensive."

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...40315?irpc=932

Pakistan could just be lying or incompetent, as always.


Other theory claims MH370 could have been flying in the dark, in the shadow of another airline that was passing India, Pakistan, etc. This explains the odd maneuvers.

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/po...ar-using-sia68

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by MattMD

Plane could have went north over India undetected.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...40315?irpc=932

Pakistan could just be lying or incompetent, as always.

Here is one thing I do believe about from the article. Most countries blow smoke about what they can and can not do, the US is no different, the art of miss information is as important as showing your real power, which was proven in WWII.

As happen in Iraq, with everyone thinking that Saddam had WMD's when and fact he had nothing, but he had to make the world and his neighbors think that otherwise, he could not get away with what he did. So do we have countries like India and such who lack the ability to detect if someone has violated its air space, most definitely, but can they let the world know that especially at the cost of a plane filled with non-Indian, most definitely not. They been at war with Pakistan and they both want to nuke each other so they will not admit to know knowing things.

Let put another way, how do all the drugs get into the US with all our technologies and focus on stopping it. Hell private plane and boats arrive in the US everyday with notice.

Could have MH370 flown in the shadow of another plane, that is all possible, but that would require to much planning and the luck of the draw if they plan to do that day one. The reason I said that is most commercial pilot do not now know to many days in advance which plane and flight they will be flying. it is all the luck of draw these days, pilots can not even request their co-pilots or crew like they use to prior to 911.

My personally feeling is we will never exactly know what happen, even if the government figures most of it out, they may never tell anyone. So people do not know what they know or do not know.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by MattMD

Plane could have went north over India undetected.



http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id...40315?irpc=932

Pakistan could just be lying or incompetent, as always.


Other theory claims MH370 could have been flying in the dark, in the shadow of another airline that was passing India, Pakistan, etc. This explains the odd maneuvers.

http://keithledgerwood.tumblr.com/po...ar-using-sia68

Interesting theory. But one thing the author doesn't mention is how close the two airplanes have to be to overcome the resolution of military radar and appear as one dot isntead of two? I'm guessing they have to be pretty close. How would the pilots of MH370 maintain control if that's the case? Those big heavy passenger planes with powerful engines leave a lot of wake turbulence behind them and any other plane flying too close can be knocked way off course by this turbulence.

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by italia

Or someone is paranoid.

Not paranoid, just realistic. Maybe you will understand if I put it in "car terms". Military/government engineering developpment is equivalent to how F1 is to the rest of the auto industry. Usually 20-30 years ahead of the times. The capabilities they have are far beyond what anything is in the civilian market place. If you don't think so, then yes, you are naive.

Originally Posted by PSUSMU

You live in Tennessee. I live in DC and work in gov't IT. I bet you'd be surprised if the gov't tracks all 3 billion phone calls per day too, huh?

Completely agree. Obviously everything has its limitations but i seriously doubt that any limitations that they have are known by the public.

Originally Posted by SteveMD

Wow. Tin foil hat much? You think the US Gov gives two shits about a routine Malaysian Airways flight across the South China Sea?

I'm guessing you thing that spy sats cover every square inch of the earth 24/7. This just isn't the case. The chances of a satellite capable of taking images (i.e. not broadcasting Playboy Channel) being over that plane when it went down are tiny. The real world is not like '24'.

I think that after 9/11, the U.S. government cares about every flight that goes out. We found out the hard way how difficult it is to be reactive to situations, so why not be proactive about it. Commercial airliners in my mind are the most vulnerable weapons of mass destruction available to literally anyone. That is not a false statement, do I have to remind you how many people were killed by two aircraft crashing into the twin towers...

Originally Posted by Vic311

Interesting, do you also believe in ghosts, beasts and things that go bump in the night?

It did just disappear with the technology we have today. That is why it is so concerning and bafflingly.

You are clearly not in any type of technical or engineering field. It is concerning and "baffingly" to specifically our government not because of WHERE this thing went but because of WHY. The human initiative behind this whole situation is not one that can be calculated or hypothesized, it is a true wild card that can never be predicted.


I'm not being tin foil hat crazy government conspiracy, i'm just being realistic. There is a reason that there hasn't been another 9/11, it's because the U.S. has means of stopping it. Means that you will never hear about and nobody will ever give credit to but the simple fact that we haven't had another plane crash into a building is proof that things are being done to protect us and for that I am thankful.

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by pgviper

I'm not being tin foil hat crazy government conspiracy, i'm just being realistic. There is a reason that there hasn't been another 9/11, it's because the U.S. has means of stopping it. Means that you will never hear about and nobody will ever give credit to but the simple fact that we haven't had another plane crash into a building is proof that things are being done to protect us and for that I am thankful.

While I agree the US government has many means at their disposal to protect us I would remind you that the absence of evidence is not proof of effectiveness. That is spurious reasoning and dangerous to assume.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by pgviper

There is a reason that there hasn't been another 9/11, it's because the U.S. has means of stopping it. Means that you will never hear about and nobody will ever give credit to but the simple fact that we haven't had another plane crash into a building is proof that things are being done to protect us and for that I am thankful.

If there's one thing you should have taken away from the attacks of the past it is that they are playing the long game. They waited 8 years between tries at the WTC. You don't think someone felt the same way you do after 7.5 years?

[MattMD]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Here is one thing I do believe about from the article. Most countries blow smoke about what they can and can not do, the US is no different, the art of miss information is as important as showing your real power, which was proven in WWII.

As happen in Iraq, with everyone thinking that Saddam had WMD's when and fact he had nothing, but he had to make the world and his neighbors think that otherwise, he could not get away with what he did. So do we have countries like India and such who lack the ability to detect if someone has violated its air space, most definitely, but can they let the world know that especially at the cost of a plane filled with non-Indian, most definitely not. They been at war with Pakistan and they both want to nuke each other so they will not admit to know knowing things.

Let put another way, how do all the drugs get into the US with all our technologies and focus on stopping it. Hell private plane and boats arrive in the US everyday with notice.

I can agree with this. We only know what the news tells us, and they don't know all the details. They also usually twist the details to fit a story that they see fit. Why do we only see the last ping, and not all the earlier ones...? This information is being withheld.

Could have MH370 flown in the shadow of another plane, that is all possible, but that would require to much planning and the luck of the draw if they plan to do that day one. The reason I said that is most commercial pilot do not now know to many days in advance which plane and flight they will be flying. it is all the luck of draw these days, pilots can not even request their co-pilots or crew like they use to prior to 911.

My personally feeling is we will never exactly know what happen, even if the government figures most of it out, they may never tell anyone. So people do not know what they know or do not know.

If the plane was indeed hijacked, then it wouldn't matter what they knew, unless the pilot was working with the hijackers (not implausible given political ties) The hijackers would have had to have received this info somehow to carry out the plan.

I think the gov't will just conclude the search in the south in a couple weeks and declare that it's essentially gone, regardless of whether they know more about it or not.



Picture for visual interpretation, MH370 is black, SQ68 is white

Interesting theory. But one thing the author doesn't mention is how close the two airplanes have to be to overcome the resolution of military radar and appear as one dot isntead of two? I'm guessing they have to be pretty close. How would the pilots of MH370 maintain control if that's the case? Those big heavy passenger planes with powerful engines leave a lot of wake turbulence behind them and any other plane flying too close can be knocked way off course by this turbulence.

By flying 50 feet above and behind the other jet. Maybe that's what buddy boy has been practicing on his flight simulator.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

While I agree the US government has many means at their disposal to protect us I would remind you that the absence of evidence is not proof of effectiveness. That is spurious reasoning and dangerous to assume.

I tell people this all of the time, the fact that something has not happen does not mean it will not or could happen. All it means is it just has not happen it does not prove actions being taken stopped it from happening.

Part of the reason the government has been changing their security measures and one day it seems lacks and other days strict is they hope to root out the bad people, make them think they are not being watched. There are people testing the systems every day, some get caught and other do not.

This is why I think it was the pilot himself, and he my have been planned years ago as it was pointed out they are in it for the long game.

[Maestro]

I do not know this for fact, however, I am drawing this from other information. I do not believe Radar including military radars are all the accurate, to the level where they can distinguish objects all that well. The reason I say this is the fact modern aviation does not rely on a sweeping radar wave coming back from a flying object. They rely on the transponders from the plane. The plane radios its position based on GPS today, prior they used an analog radio system to determine their location on the earth. The plane send out their physical position and the call letter to the control towers and the plot this information on their radar screen we all see on TV.

This is what the military does as well, every friendly plane sent out signals to each other in the battle field so they know who and what they are. Yes they use Radar but it seems to be in a very course manor not to be specific.

So the fact that a plane can seemingly fly around with out detection by radar, does not surprise me. To me if you not purposely and specifically looking for something you may never see it on a radar system, especially a commercial one.

I also read that as long as the plane keep to commercial airline flight path, most if not all Military Radars system would have ignore the plane if it was in fact detected. If a plane fly those known paths the military can care less about them.

[grimlock]

^I'm just wondering what the pilot's 'cause' would be - anti-US/muslim, anti-China/Xinjiang separatist, oppositional Malaysian politics, or maybe he lost it and was flying off to meet some aliens..

[pgviper]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

While I agree the US government has many means at their disposal to protect us I would remind you that the absence of evidence is not proof of effectiveness. That is spurious reasoning and dangerous to assume.

Def dangerous to assume but since in no way can I affect these type of situations, I hope for the best since the only proof of effectiveness IS the absence of evidence.

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

If there's one thing you should have taken away from the attacks of the past it is that they are playing the long game. They waited 8 years between tries at the WTC. You don't think someone felt the same way you do after 7.5 years?

It has been 13 going on 14 years since that day. Pretty descent amount of time if you ask me. I'm trying to be positive here and hope that whatever proactive measures are being taken are working.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by grimlock

^I'm just wondering what the pilot's 'cause' would be - anti-US/muslim, anti-China/Xinjiang separatist, oppositional Malaysian politics, or maybe he lost it and was flying off to meet some aliens..

He was planted there many years ago by the Bad guys, and may be they planted more like him. Remember after 911 the US and other place has sleeper cell of people waiting for their orders to take action. Luckily the US found most all of them before any could happen. But the missed the Boston Marathon bombers.

[synclastica_86]

Originally Posted by Maestro

Actually the Launch Detection Satellites which use infrared can detect very small amounts of heat. The US used them to track Russian Nuclear Subs and ships since they leave a heat signature in the water especially in shallow waters. These satellites are there 24/7 watching the entire region otherwise they would be useless for early warning of a missile launch.

The US came our in the first few days and said they did not detect anything which would lead them to believe the plane was shot down of blew up. Keep in mind ever if the satellites could not detect the air to air missile, the US seem pretty confident that if the plane blew up they would have detected it.

I know that there are systems that can detect ICBM launches. But I'm talking about much smaller missiles such as the ones launched from turrets or mobile platforms. What if the missile was air to air? Will it still be detected? Also, satellites can detect the heat signature of a missile launch, wouldn't it pick up an entire plane blowing up?

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by pgviper

It has been 13 going on 14 years since that day. Pretty descent amount of time if you ask me. I'm trying to be positive here and hope that whatever proactive measures are being taken are working.

It's been 12.5 years and you're being naive. When one avenue closes, they simply look for another. Remember the shoe bomber? The underwear bomber? The bomb that luckily malfunctioned in Times Sq? The Boston Marathon? Our best defense is the giant oceans that surround us which is why tightened airline security is an effective tactic, but as I said before, they are playing a long game here.

[KingOfJericho]

One thing that mystifies me is that the US has a huge base on Diego Garcia in the middle of the Indian ocean. Their ears never perked up that a 777 with the transponders turned off was heading in their direction?

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by fatpanda

if it didnt crash, those 200+ passengers wld have likely starved to death by now... sickening just thinking abt it..

If it didn't crash and ended in sinister hands, starving would be the least of their worries. Either way, I find it hard to believe this plane landed safely somewhere.

[Petros]

I wouldn't rule out the possibility the plane landed somewhere, but there is that big question of "WHY?" Were there any important passengers on the plane worth kidnapping? Was there something being transported in the cargo bay worth stealing? Because I doubt a stolen passenger plane has any resale value on its own. I believe it's most likely the plane crashed into the ocean.

[MattMD]

I saw out rather out there theory that the plane could be used as a carrier for a dirty bomb.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Petros

I wouldn't rule out the possibility the plane landed somewhere, but there is that big question of "WHY?" Were there any important passengers on the plane worth kidnapping? Was there something being transported in the cargo bay worth stealing? Because I doubt a stolen passenger plane has any resale value on its own. I believe it's most likely the plane crashed into the ocean.

^I think it's either terrorism or cray-cray
Nothing worth transporting that is valuable to nations goes commercial.. unless you're Israel. No one with the capability to hijack a plane could not find a much much easier method to get whoever they wanted.

Originally Posted by Maestro

He was planted there many years ago by the Bad guys, and may be they planted more like him. Remember after 911 the US and other place has sleeper cell of people waiting for their orders to take action. Luckily the US found most all of them before any could happen. But the missed the Boston Marathon bombers.

It just shows the true dedication to their idealogy to go for such a long troll - no one really cares past a decade when the people in office have all moved on, but the crazies will carry on with their sickness till they die, literally.

[Billup]

Originally Posted by Petros

I wouldn't rule out the possibility the plane landed somewhere, but there is that big question of "WHY?" Were there any important passengers on the plane worth kidnapping? Was there something being transported in the cargo bay worth stealing? Because I doubt a stolen passenger plane has any resale value on its own. I believe it's most likely the plane crashed into the ocean.

From my understanding there were 20+ government officials on board that plane from Malaysia or China or one of the two.

Someone correct me if I am wrong, please.