[ASAP]

I think that the main problem is that there is no US manufacturer that across the board has a solid lineup of cars... if you look at the model website of all 3 manufacturers, you see garbage, 1 or 2 OK cars and 1 or 2 outstanding cars. IMHO it would be best for all of these companies to leave 1 outstanding car around and make the rest of the cars great... no one in the USA has ever done this and at the moment it seems that even Ford which is the most consistent has garbage across the board for any sedan larger than the fiesta.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by u080570

You do know Bush was the one that did the buyout don't you?

It's too inconvenient to remember anything that happened prior to January 2009.

I ignore Motor Trend, as they're fanboys of anything new. I made the mistake of buying their Import Car of the Year back in '84 or so, a Renault. Worst car I ever owned. I put three clutches in it at regular 10k mile intervals. I learned my lesson on that one, and since have never bought a model that didn't have a full year of on the road testing under its belt.

Motor Trend loves Jeep too, almost as much as mechanics that make a good living repairing them at a higher rate than any other make.

[David70]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I think that the main problem is that there is no US manufacturer that across the board has a solid lineup of cars... if you look at the model website of all 3 manufacturers, you see garbage, 1 or 2 OK cars and 1 or 2 outstanding cars. IMHO it would be best for all of these companies to leave 1 outstanding car around and make the rest of the cars great... no one in the USA has ever done this and at the moment it seems that even Ford which is the most consistent has garbage across the board for any sedan larger than the fiesta.

You think all the U.S. manufacturers should make only great cars? Hard to argue but guessing they also already considered this.

I also don't think there are really "garbage" cars being built anymore. Many I don't want to buy but for the market they are competing with I don't think any are really that bad.

[RoundelM3]

And who cares? At best, magazines are entertainment for while you're in the waiting area of the barbershop, dentist, doctor, service department, etc. What you want to look at is the "long term test" articles which tell you a lot more about what it's like to own and drive one over a long term than something based on hype and perceived features after driving it for a couple of days.

[FriskyDingo]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I think that the main problem is that there is no US manufacturer that across the board has a solid lineup of cars... if you look at the model website of all 3 manufacturers, you see garbage, 1 or 2 OK cars and 1 or 2 outstanding cars. IMHO it would be best for all of these companies to leave 1 outstanding car around and make the rest of the cars great... no one in the USA has ever done this and at the moment it seems that even Ford which is the most consistent has garbage across the board for any sedan larger than the fiesta.

I'm not the biggest domestic fan myself, but to say ANY of the US mfr's (even ChryCo) is building mostly garbage cars is completely absurd. Nearly every one of the Domestics' offerings are at or near the top of class in either refinement, or driving dynamics. In some cases, they're in a class of their own.

I'm in the car business and constantly spend time around and driving vehicles of all kinds, and there is not even a shred of merit to your claims. You have either not driven the cars in question, or are just clearly biased. Many of the cars you'd think are ho-hum are actually rather nice to drive. Chevy Sonic is a perfect example. And where else but Dodge can you get a traditional RWD V8 large sedan nicely equipped for in the 30K range?

There are a few losers in the lineups- Chevy Spark, Ford Expedition, etc, but that holds true for all mainstream brands. Need we bring up the fact that BMW is now building FWD cars, with many more in the pipeline? Or that they are longer regarded as the best driver's cars in their respective segments?

And like another poster said, you'd have to look really hard to find a new car that is truly garbage these days.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

I'm not the biggest domestic fan myself, but to say ANY of the US mfr's (even ChryCo) is building mostly garbage cars is completely absurd. Nearly every one of the Domestics' offerings are at or near the top of class in either refinement, or driving dynamics. In some cases, they're in a class of their own.

I'm in the car business and constantly spend time around and driving vehicles of all kinds, and there is not even a shred of merit to your claims. You have either not driven the cars in question, or are just clearly biased. Many of the cars you'd think are ho-hum are actually rather nice to drive. Chevy Sonic is a perfect example. And where else but Dodge can you get a traditional RWD V8 large sedan nicely equipped for in the 30K range?

There are a few losers in the lineups- Chevy Spark, Ford Expedition, etc, but that holds true for all mainstream brands. Need we bring up the fact that BMW is now building FWD cars, with many more in the pipeline? Or that they are longer regarded as the best driver's cars in their respective segments?

And like another poster said, you'd have to look really hard to find a new car that is truly garbage these days.

I am not sure if you are a huge fan of rental cars or what the case is, but providing an example of a charger as a great car is a joke at best... i had one as a rental and would prefer a fwd accord over it. Dodge has the Viper and maybe the dart w the ram, everything else is garbage. GM has the V cadillacs, the Vette qnd a few trucks and small cars, all else is garbage. Ford has trucks, the mustang and a few decent small size cars. No one has a decent or solid midsize or fullsize car middle class car...sorry... and that is ruining everyones lineup.

[oonowindoo]

I think that can be said just about every brand.

I think think of at least 2 "garbage" cars from every brand, including BMW.

Not every car will be successful and not everyone will like the same car. Some people are perfectly ok driving a $15k "garbage" knowing they spent (saved) 4 times less (than me).

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by oonowindoo

I think that can be said just about every brand.

I think think of at least 2 "garbage" cars from every brand, including BMW.

Not every car will be successful and not everyone will like the same car. Some people are perfectly ok driving a $15k "garbage" knowing they spent (saved) 4 times less (than me).

Everyone has a garbage car, only the us manufactures have them across the board on mid and full size sedans... even some small ones. This is coming from someone who think the z06 is a world class performance car.

As far as cheaper, Hyundai and Mazda offer outstanding small to midsize cars for also a 1/4 of the price... this is a domestic problem, not a problem.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Everyone has a garbage car, only the us manufactures have them across the board on mid and full size sedans... even some small ones. This is coming from someone who think the z06 is a world class performance car.

As far as cheaper, Hyundai and Mazda offer outstanding small to midsize cars for also a 1/4 of the price... this is a domestic problem, not a problem.

Toyota is loaded with boring ass sh*t cars.

[FriskyDingo]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Everyone has a garbage car, only the us manufactures have them across the board on mid and full size sedans... even some small ones. This is coming from someone who think the z06 is a world class performance car.

As far as cheaper, Hyundai and Mazda offer outstanding small to midsize cars for also a 1/4 of the price... this is a domestic problem, not a problem.

Lol, if you think the Koreans are building 'outstanding' cars, and domestics are 'garbage' in comparison, you're just ate up.

I want some of what you're smoking.

[AudiA4]

The irony...you guys blasting GM and making fun of Motor Trend as a "worthless rag" yet would be the first to trumpet their brilliant choice has the 340i been selected. Let's at least be somewhat objective here...

[goj]

There are many great cars on the market. The 340i being a refresh and being considered is awesome in my opinion. No doubt the 340 is a significant upgrade from the F30 335i.

Even though I wish my car had won, it's nice to see that MT ACTUALLY picked a cool car. Their past choices have been pretty uninteresting. Lots of American cars too, although less of late.

[5ilver-5amurai]

That's great...and like all the other crap GM pumps out, the paint will lose its shine in about a year and in 3 years, it'll be a glorified can opener.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by 5ilver-5amurai

That's great...and like all the other crap GM pumps out, the paint will lose its shine in about a year and in 3 years, it'll be a glorified can opener.

Ancient history. GM is not making German quality cars but along with Ford their cars are well made and reliable. And for sure a hell of a lot less expensive than the German iron as well as far cheaper to maintain. Give me a break.

[5ilver-5amurai]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

Ancient history. GM is not making German quality cars but along with Ford their cars are well made and reliable. And for sure a hell of a lot less expensive than the German iron as well as far cheaper to maintain. Give me a break.

Well made and reliable is subjective, relative to what a person is used to driving. Their cars are cheaper and will get the job done, that's for sure. The price you pay is that often you get a car with cheaper grade metal, plastics, and paint.

[RM7]

Miss my 2010 SS, so much fun to drive. GM is killing it with their chassis these days.

[ny325]

BMW has lost its driving dynamics. Unless they bring back that tight, heavy feel of their the cars. They won't be winning awards in the near future. Bmw has lost me. I don't like any of the new models that are out. The new 7 looks OK. What's up with that chrome piece running along the side? Looks tacky. Come on BMW, bring back the " Ultimate Driving Machine."

[Labeef]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Miss my 2010 SS, so much fun to drive. GM is killing it with their chassis these days.

But not in 2010.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Labeef

But not in 2010.

Yes, even in 2010, it was based on the Holden Commodore (G8) and reinforced to make it even stiffer. Pulling well into the .90s stock for Gs in turns. I upgraded with stiffer sways and strut ties, but it was simply a capable car, not crazy heavy at 3850 or so for the manual and with plenty of torque and a chassis that was finally competitive against stuff at the price point and above. Some of my friends that are "blinded" by brand names can't understand how I can prefer my Camaro for handling, as opposed to my BMW, but the difference is not even close, the Camaro was designed from the outset as a rounded sports car, weight distribution, brakes, chassis, engine, drivetrain, etc., it always bested the equivalent mustangs because it could put it's power down (but the new GT350s and Rs are pretty amazing!).

I miss it because it was a fun car to drive, much of the ergonomics are exactly the same as my BMW and people seem to start comparing the Camaro or other GM products to 7 series and Porsche Panemeras, but when compared to lowly 3 and 4 series, they are pretty much the same. It's not like the 3 series is hacked out of solid aluminum or they didn't use tons of plastic. People still keep these biases of course, but it's usually totally unfounded and rooted in a time when the GM and other US products just couldn't be taken seriously compared to foreign stuff.

IMO, that's the start of when they "got serious" with chassis, 2010 Camaro, ZL1, 1LE, Z28, G8, CTS-V, ATS-V, ZR-1, Z-06, Stingray, SS, etc...

[Vegetable]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Yes, even in 2010, it was based on the Holden Commodore (G8) and reinforced to make it even stiffer. Pulling well into the .90s stock for Gs in turns. I upgraded with stiffer sways and strut ties, but it was simply a capable car, not crazy heavy at 3850 or so for the manual and with plenty of torque and a chassis that was finally competitive against stuff at the price point and above. Some of my friends that are "blinded" by brand names can't understand how I can prefer my Camaro for handling, as opposed to my BMW, but the difference is not even close, the Camaro was designed from the outset as a rounded sports car, weight distribution, brakes, chassis, engine, drivetrain, etc., it always bested the equivalent mustangs because it could put it's power down (but the new GT350s and Rs are pretty amazing!).

I miss it because it was a fun car to drive, much of the ergonomics are exactly the same as my BMW and people seem to start comparing the Camaro or other GM products to 7 series and Porsche Panemeras, but when compared to lowly 3 and 4 series, they are pretty much the same. It's not like the 3 series is hacked out of solid aluminum or they didn't use tons of plastic. People still keep these biases of course, but it's usually totally unfounded and rooted in a time when the GM and other US products just couldn't be taken seriously compared to foreign stuff.

IMO, that's the start of when they "got serious" with chassis, 2010 Camaro, ZL1, 1LE, Z28, G8, CTS-V, ATS-V, ZR-1, Z-06, Stingray, SS, etc...

Interesting.. Drove a 2013-ish SS a few years ago and it was a total toilet car.. The old and new Mustang felt much better. I imagine the new SS will kill the new stang. Hope the new SS drives much better than the last iteration as it was a f-ing banana on wheels that was apparently made by engineers with the philosophy during their scholastic carers that "C's get degrees."

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Vegetable

Interesting.. Drove a 2013-ish SS a few years ago and it was a total toilet car.. The old and new Mustang felt much better. I imagine the new SS will kill the new stang. Hope the new SS drives much better than the last iteration as it was a f-ing banana on wheels that was apparently made by engineers with the philosophy during their scholastic carers that "C's get degrees."

Really? You realize you are talking about the same chassis as the Z/28? The Camaro with more weight and less HP beat every equivalent mustang model (SS 1LE vs. Boss, ZL1 vs. GT500, etc.) due to it's suspension and chassis. What didn't you like? The near perfect weight balance? The higher limits for cornering? The short-throw 6 speed? The torque curve of the LS3? Of course ergonomics in terms of entry and visibility aren't great(my 428 has nearly the same exact size rear window), but the price you pay for a hot looking sports car, so you either adapt or drive something where you are sitting way up high, like a mazda 2 series or Chevrolet Cruz.

[BimmerF32_430i]

Originally Posted by 5ilver-5amurai

Well made and reliable is subjective, relative to what a person is used to driving. Their cars are cheaper and will get the job done, that's for sure. The price you pay is that often you get a car with cheaper grade metal, plastics, and paint.

I do have to agree on the well made part. I Looked at some of the new mustangs and their gaps were inconsistent. But, one thing I don't understand and everyone throws around, is how ford cars have so much cheap feeling material in the interior. Well, so does the F30. We have plenty of cheap crap in the interior as well, so while the BMW is definitely a better made car, I don't agree on the ford being extremely cheap on the inside.