[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

After a 30+ year career in law enforcement I was making the point that the case would likely be difficult to move forward as the evidence is although compelling it is circumstantial, the vehicle is possibly the same but the driver can't be identified which is who committed the offence (not the vehicle). You got tickets because the salesmen identified you. But who knows, if the guy admitted to it they may proceed with charges.

I did not commit the crimes on the tickets. Apparently, some clown's word is all the law needs to convict these days. Our system is a joke.

[Ickdeep]

Dangggg that's crazy. Awesome job finding out who it was

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

We all make mistakes. Unless you know the STI kid IRL, you don't have the full story just like the rest of us. No one is saying what he did was ok.

These kind of mistakes kill. No excuses.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by clutchdj

Its all relative. No harm done, move on with life.

It’s a little hard to move on for my buddy in the camera car, because he’s personally known a friend who was struck down and killed on Angeles Crest Highway by a driver like this one...crossing the double yellow where he should’t. If I’m not mistaken, it was a case of 4 wheels vs 2 and the guy crossing the double yellow walked away scratch-free while my buddy’s friend died leaving a devastated and grieving family.

I’m fine with forget and forgive. He’s not. 5 days later he’s still fuming whenever I talk to him. At this point I want “retribution” not as much for myself but for how passionate my friend feels about this issue.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

These kind of mistakes kill. No excuses.

Sometimes they do, but this one did not. So we should give the kid the death penalty? C'mon man. Don't act like you've never messed up.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by The HACK

It’s a little hard to move on for my buddy in the camera car, because he’s personally known a friend who was struck down and killed on Angeles Crest Highway by a driver like this one...crossing the double yellow where he should’t. If I’m not mistaken, it was a case of 4 wheels vs 2 and the guy crossing the double yellow walked away scratch-free while my buddy’s friend died leaving a devastated and grieving family.

I’m fine with forget and forgive. He’s not. 5 days later he’s still fuming whenever I talk to him. At this point I want “retribution” not as much for myself but for how passionate my friend feels about this issue.

You cannot hold STi kid accountable for someone else's actions, though. There's nothing to get retribution for. Talk about an overreaction.

[RABAUKE]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

I did not commit the crimes on the tickets. Apparently, some clown's word is all the law needs to convict these days. Our system is a joke.

So, the clown you mention is a witness (doesn't mean he didn't lie and that's another issue), the witness in the case in point is a blurry video which doesn't clearly id the car and doesn't id the driver. In Canada and I assume the US too as your justice system is also based on British common law, the police generally don't lay charges without a reasonable prospect of conviction. I'd suggest that without a confession or a solid witness there is no reasonable prospect of conviction. Your personal experience is different and without seeing the evidence clearly isn't a fair comparator.

[mkoesel]

Some may recall an incident from a few years back where an M4 driver messed up and ended up losing control of his vehicle after a cars & coffee event. Luckily, there were no injuries and the car appeared to suffer relatively minor damage as compared to what might have happened if there were a serious collision.

We're not going to talk about the details of that incident here (and also not going to post links to details about it here either - anyone curious can search and read about it). The reasons I bring it up are:

a) The whole thing was caught on video and the coverage quickly went viral. This appeared to be due primarily to the fact that many saw humor in the situation (and there was, really), but I think that the reasons behind the coverage are less important than the fact that the word did indeed spread quickly.

b) Due to the exposure, the driver of the vehicle came forward and took accountability. It was an imperfect attempt, and he made excuses, but nevertheless he did step up.

c) At any rate, by the time the dust settled, it was pretty safe to assume the guy got the message and would think twice next time.

In this case, we have yet to see the STi driver take any accountability, and I suspect this is primarily because, so far, there has been a lack of exposure to a degree similar to the above incident. Secondly, while both acts were obviously the result of poor decision making, it seems that, based on other available information, the driver here is perhaps more likely to have done similar things in the past, and more importantly, probably will do so again in the future if there are insufficient negative consequences associated with the behavior.

Having said all of that, I stand by any effort to raise awareness of this situation. Certainly there is a limit to the benefit of public shaming, and there is a point where things can be taken too far. However, to me, the seriousness of this particular event and the fact that loss of life was probably mere inches away justifies maximum visibility.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

You cannot hold STi kid accountable for someone else's actions, though.

No, but I am holding him responsible for his actions. On his Instagram feed there are other instances of him crossing double yellow recklessly. This isn't a one time thing. He IS going to kill someone.

The fact my friend lost a friend to a similar incident means, IF we can even get our point across to the guy in the STi, and maybe a larger audience overall, then maybe we save someone from getting killed by this same reckless driver, or potentially someone else.

Maybe retribution is the wrong word. I'm not after justice. I'm after public awareness. If it saves one life (the STi driver's), it still would have been more worth it than having to just walk away satisfied that we didn't get killed.

It's a bit cliché, but this guy is a serial reckless driver from what I can see. If I "walk away" as some suggest, and when he kills a 2 wheeler crossing the double yellow, or head-on someone else, there's "blood" on my hands.

I'm not an avid canyon carver, I go up and down ACH maybe once every couple of month. But in the last 8-12 months I've driven up and down that mountain road, there's been an incident or two of cars ending up on the opposite end of the road stuffed into a cliff. EVERY TIME. Last trip up to camp in the Angeles National Forest, I was awaken at 7:00am by sounds of rescue helicopters overhead. Someone was airlifted from a head-on collision. Stuff like this happens way too often, with too many people with fast cars and not enough experience, skill, and fear of death to stop them from doing really stupid stuff. WE happened to capture a very close call of such occasion, and I think it's in everyone's best interest that this be exposed, IMO.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by The HACK

No, but I am holding him responsible for his actions. On his Instagram feed there are other instances of him crossing double yellow recklessly. This isn't a one time thing. He IS going to kill someone.

The fact my friend lost a friend to a similar incident means, IF we can even get our point across to the guy in the STi, and maybe a larger audience overall, then maybe we save someone from getting killed by this same reckless driver, or potentially someone else.

Maybe retribution is the wrong word. I'm not after justice. I'm after public awareness. If it saves one life (the STi driver's), it still would have been more worth it than having to just walk away satisfied that we didn't get killed.

It's a bit cliché, but this guy is a serial reckless driver from what I can see. If I "walk away" as some suggest, and when he kills a 2 wheeler crossing the double yellow, or head-on someone else, there's "blood" on my hands.

I'm not an avid canyon carver, I go up and down ACH maybe once every couple of month. But in the last 8-12 months I've driven up and down that mountain road, there's been an incident or two of cars ending up on the opposite end of the road stuffed into a cliff. EVERY TIME. Last trip up to camp in the Angeles National Forest, I was awaken at 7:00am by sounds of rescue helicopters overhead. Someone was airlifted from a head-on collision. Stuff like this happens way too often, with too many people with fast cars and not enough experience, skill, and fear of death to stop them from doing really stupid stuff. WE happened to capture a very close call of such occasion, and I think it's in everyone's best interest that this be exposed, IMO.

So what would you like to do to this kid or see happen then?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

Sometimes they do, but this one did not. So we should give the kid the death penalty? C'mon man. Don't act like you've never messed up.

Dude, would you leave a loaded gun in a house with young kids in it, day after day, just because none of the kids picked it up?

Would you continue to leave a loaded gun in a house with kids in it after one of them picked it up and fired it, but didn't hurt anyone?

Would you continue to leave a loaded gun in a house with kids in it after one of them picked it up and fired it again and barely missed shooting someone else in the face with it?

Didn't think so.

Just stop it. This is the same damn thing: reckless endangerment with a deadly weapon, which is a felony in most states. The case law is there.

Oh, and if this STi kid happens to even injure someone else in this situation? The issue potentially rises to attempted manslaughter, and he'll be opened up to both criminal AND civil litigation. If he kills someone? First-degree manslaughter at a minimum.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Dude, would you leave a loaded gun in a house with young kids in it, day after day, just because none of the kids picked it up?

Would you continue to leave a loaded gun in a house with kids in it after one of them picked it up and fired it, but didn't hurt anyone?

Would you continue to leave a loaded gun in a house with kids in it after one of them picked it up and fired it again and barely missed shooting someone else in the face with it?

Didn't think so.

Just stop it. This is the same damn thing: reckless endangerment with a deadly weapon, which is a felony in most states. The case law is there.

So now leaving a gun laying around where a small child can grab it is the same as this? You're perfect? I'm done w/you.

Oh, and if this STi kid happens to even injure someone else in this situation? The issue potentially rises to attempted manslaughter, and he'll be opened up to both criminal AND civil litigation. If he kills someone? First-degree manslaughter at a minimum.

IF.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

So what would you like to do to this kid or see happen then?

Can't speak for the The HACK, but from my persepctive, widespread internet notoriety would seem to be a reasonable outcome and would hopefully motivate some change in behavior. If it becomes part of internet lore and gives the perpetrator fifteen minutes of online infamy, I think that's a win all things considered.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

So now leaving a gun laying around where a small child can grab it is the same as this? You're perfect? I'm done w/you.

Yes it is: Legally, morally, and situationally.

Go ahead: Look up the case law. Look up the parallels regarding personal responsibility as it relates to innocent bystanders and other, uninvolved third parties. Look up the similarities between a gun and a motor vehicle regarding licensing, safe and lawful ownership and operation, and classification as a deadly weapon.

It's the same damn thing.

Instead of being done with me, learn the facts, then learn to live in the same world everyone else lives in. Because folks with attitudes such as yours and this STi driver's are what kills folks such as The HACK 's friend-of-a-friend and at least two friends of mine: one killed by a handgun, the other killed on a motorcycle by a head-on collision with a drunk driver.

Good day.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

So what would you like to do to this kid or see happen then?

Ideally? Make a public apology, via his Instagram feed. Own up to his mistake. Have the video go viral and make people see and be aware the sort of danger that is involved with this sort of dangerous driving. Save a few lives.

What I think should happen? Make him aware of what HE has done, privately acknowledge his mistake, hopefully learn not to EVER cross the double yellow. Learn to drive within his limits and not be a douche. Maybe save his life in the process from a future incident.

What'll likely happen? He'll shut down his Instagram account, and continue to be the douche he is. My fingers crossed that he never EVER pull a sh*tty stunt like this, but know that in the back of my head that it's likely inevitable another head-on incident likely will happen. Maybe not to him. But it's inevitable.

If nothing else? You NEVER see videos of someone getting killed in a head-on collision from a reckless driver. That's because the victim never gets a chance to post his/her video of the incident. THIS, is about as close as you're going to get. Maybe it does nothing, but maybe, just maybe, someone sees the video and a light goes on and say, hey, maybe I shouldn't do THAT.

What would I like to do to this kid? You don't want to know. I frequent Newcomb's ranch with my buddy once every few months. IF I see this kid there? I'll probably punch him in the gawd damn face. That's likely the least of his problems though, my friend who's still fuming over this? He's at Newcomb's twice a week. The bartender and the owner of Newcomb's are on a first name basis with him. It's far more likely that HE runs into the kid in the STi. Can't speak for him as I am not sure what he would do.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Never_Enough

I test drove a C7Z last year & the salesman was so used to selling his lame Buicks that he freaked out when I got on the loud pedal. What did he do? Must have had a friend in the local PD because he called them & I got bs tickets in the mail. I had to go to court several times & ultimately had to pay lots of $ in fines & for my lawyer for bs that did not happen.

Sounds like an unfortunate situation. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, so, taking you at your word, I'm sorry to hear that you were treated unjustly.

At the same time, surely you can appreciate that the driver of the STi needs a wakeup call. That's really the point here, so hopefully even if you elect not to get behind that effort, you won't stand in its way, or at the very least you won't make for unnecessary friction.

Again, a behavioral change is needed, and that's the goal here.

[SergioK]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

These kind of mistakes kill. No excuses.

Oh I'm sure people can come up with all kinds of excuses and reasons.

In the end, what matters from this?

Maybe next time Victor STI will NOT make a stupid pass and maybe he won't end up dead because of the raking over the internet coals.

Everyone who thinks this should just go away hasn't had a friend killed by some idiot driver. Have it happen to you then come tell me about it.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Sounds like an unfortunate situation. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, so, taking you at your word, I'm sorry to hear that you were treated unjustly.

At the same time, surely you can appreciate that the driver of the STi needs a wakeup call. That's really the point here, so hopefully even if you elect not to get behind that effort, you won't stand in its way, or at the very least you won't make for unnecessary friction.

Again, a behavioral change is needed, and that's the goal here.

He absolutely needs a wake up call. What I take issue with is people seemingly wanting to ruin his life or treat him as if he just shot their mother.

Finally, let the law do its thing. Social media keyboard commandos don't get to provide the punishment outside of letting him know, in a mature manner, that he needs to stop doing that shit. We all know exactly how fast online threats get out of hand in 2018. Be adults, folks.

[Never_Enough]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Ideally? Make a public apology, via his Instagram feed. Own up to his mistake. Have the video go viral and make people see and be aware the sort of danger that is involved with this sort of dangerous driving. Save a few lives.

What I think should happen? Make him aware of what HE has done, privately acknowledge his mistake, hopefully learn not to EVER cross the double yellow. Learn to drive within his limits and not be a douche. Maybe save his life in the process from a future incident..

[Spa2k]

No one has yet addressed this question, which from a real-world media standpoint could become an issue: Aside from dealing with the clown in the Subaru (who IMHO should be sentenced to driving a Little Tikes Cozy Coupe for the rest of his life), what if all the public uproar you're wanting to create results in your playground no longer being available? Are you willing to take that risk? Is that too high a price to pay?

[clutchdj]

Originally Posted by The HACK

It’s a little hard to move on for my buddy in the camera car, because he’s personally known a friend who was struck down and killed on Angeles Crest Highway by a driver like this one...crossing the double yellow where he should’t. If I’m not mistaken, it was a case of 4 wheels vs 2 and the guy crossing the double yellow walked away scratch-free while my buddy’s friend died leaving a devastated and grieving family.

I’m fine with forget and forgive. He’s not. 5 days later he’s still fuming whenever I talk to him. At this point I want “retribution” not as much for myself but for how passionate my friend feels about this issue.

We all know someone or have a story that involves vehicle accidents..some life changing accidents. The camera car driver had enough skill to take evasive maneuver. Could have been been very ugly; could’ve been a lot worse. But it wasn’t, so let it be. I am not one to tell someone to let go of memories, but the event with the Subaru (the topic of the thread) involved no harm or injury. Got to move on.

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by Spa2k

No one has yet addressed this question, which from a real-world media standpoint could become an issue: Aside from dealing with the clown in the Subaru (who IMHO should be sentenced to driving a Little Tikes Cozy Coupe for the rest of his life), what if all the public uproar you're wanting to create results in your playground no longer being available? Are you willing to take that risk? Is that too high a price to pay?

Streets are not "public playgrounds" for driving like idiots. If you want to do that, go to a track where it belongs.