[Twix]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

the sound in that video makes me sad

I guess Ford is the only one making 'exotic' V-8s these days

Ford can get away with it because they sell a massive amount of mundane, boring econoboxes which keep their CAFE in check. Ferrari and other exotic companies unfortunately don't have this luxury. I wish, however, that the governments governing CAFE would allow companies like Ferrari etc, to be exempt because of their low volume sales. I'm sure for every 100 Ferraris on the road, there are too many Prisus' out there making the world green and what not.

[Blindside_137]

Originally Posted by Twix

Ford can get away with it because they sell a massive amount of mundane, boring econoboxes which keep their CAFE in check. Ferrari and other exotic companies unfortunately don't have this luxury. I wish, however, that the governments governing CAFE would allow companies like Ferrari etc, to be exempt because of their low volume sales. I'm sure for every 100 Ferraris on the road, there are too many Prisus' out there making the world green and what not.

Again, I asked this earlier but it wasn't addressed.

A. How much improvement in economy will this have over the 458? Is it really even enough? Is there nothing else to do to improve the NA V8 efficiency?

B. If they don't raise mpg enough then what is the consequence? Are they not allowed to even sell the cars or are they just fined?

If they are just fined, I don't see why they can't continue to produce whatever engines they want, and simply pass that fine along within the overall cost of the car as a slight increase for the customer to pay.

[SaMaster14]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

Again, I asked this earlier but it wasn't addressed.

A. How much improvement in economy will this have over the 458? Is it really even enough? Is there nothing else to do to improve the NA V8 efficiency?

B. If they don't raise mpg enough then what is the consequence? Are they not allowed to even sell the cars or are they just fined?

If they are just fined, I don't see why they can't continue to produce whatever engines they want, and simply pass that fine along within the overall cost of the car as a slight increase for the customer to pay.

Not sure if I'm correct, but I think it has to do with CO2 emission restrictions in Europe, NOT about MPG at all (although with lower CO2 emissions usually comes better MPG, but not always, and they are not effected at the same rate as each other).

[Blindside_137]

Originally Posted by SaMaster14

Not sure if I'm correct, but I think it has to do with CO2 emission restrictions in Europe, NOT about MPG at all (although with lower CO2 emissions usually comes better MPG, but not always, and they are not effected at the same rate as each other).

Ok but still. What happens if emissions aren't improved? Can they not sell cars or are they simply fined?

[Revcrazy]

Meh. Have never liked the 458 especially inside, nor do I like the laferrari. Just awful looking from most angles.

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

Again, I asked this earlier but it wasn't addressed.

A. How much improvement in economy will this have over the 458? Is it really even enough? Is there nothing else to do to improve the NA V8 efficiency?

B. If they don't raise mpg enough then what is the consequence? Are they not allowed to even sell the cars or are they just fined?

If they are just fined, I don't see why they can't continue to produce whatever engines they want, and simply pass that fine along within the overall cost of the car as a slight increase for the customer to pay.

I think on Top Gear during the news they said it gets 25mpg.. I'm not sure what the 458 was rated at so I don't know how much the improvement is.

[Red Bread]

I bet I could get 2.5mpg with one.

[Blindside_137]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

I think on Top Gear during the news they said it gets 25mpg.. I'm not sure what the 458 was rated at so I don't know how much the improvement is.

I found an article saying the 458 is 21.2mpg and the 488 is 24.8mpg EST (UK measurements not US, which is 12/18 mpg for the 458)

I still want to know what would happen if Ferrari kept the NA engines. It doesn't seem like to me that this new turbo is efficient enough to make Ferrari above the emissions standards... So will they be fined regardless? If a fine is the penalty even? I guess no one knows...

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

I found an article saying the 458 is 21.2mpg and the 488 is 24.8mpg EST (UK measurements not US, which is 12/18 mpg for the 458)

I still want to know what would happen if Ferrari kept the NA engines. It doesn't seem like to me that this new turbo is efficient enough to make Ferrari above the emissions standards... So will they be fined regardless? If a fine is the penalty even? I guess no one knows...

I personally think super cars and hyper cars should be excluded from all that. With the low sales and even lower mileage these cars are driven they shouldn't be held to the same standard as mass produced daily driven cars.

What I would really want to know is.. Out of all car sales per year world wide.. Just how much of the co2 is coming from super cars and how much is it really benefiting co2 emissions as a whole by making super cars more efficient. I'm sure the benefit is veryyyy minimal.

[Blindside_137]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

I personally think super cars and hyper cars should be excluded from all that. With the low sales and even lower mileage these cars are driven they shouldn't be held to the same standard as mass produced daily driven cars.

What I would really want to know is.. Out of all car sales per year world wide.. Just how much of the co2 is coming from super cars and how much is it really benefiting co2 emissions as a whole by making super cars more efficient. I'm sure the benefit is veryyyy minimal.

Exactly my thoughts as well.

[beats]

I understood that Lamborghini produced lower numbers, and thus were not effected by the emissions requirement, whereas Ferrari and Porsche produce more units, and were entangled.

[Blindside_137]

Originally Posted by skru_fase

I understood that Lamborghini produced lower numbers, and thus were not effected by the emissions requirement, whereas Ferrari and Porsche produce more units, and were entangled.

I could see that, thanks

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by skru_fase

I understood that Lamborghini produced lower numbers, and thus were not effected by the emissions requirement, whereas Ferrari and Porsche produce more units, and were entangled.

I wonder what the cut off point is. In 2014 Ferrari sold about 7k cars world wide, Lamborghini sold about 1300 cars.. Porsche sold almost 190,000 cars world wide. That's a very big gap between Ferrari and Porsche.

[MisterSkiMask]

The worst part is that the specific tests favor these turbo engines, in actual real world driving there is little difference.

[Ezio]

can someone tell me how Lamborghini released two models one with a N/A V12 and the other with a N/A V10. i am sure both of these cars are going to be made for years to come.

[Blindside_137]

Originally Posted by Ezio

can someone tell me how Lamborghini released two models one with a N/A V12 and the other with a N/A V10. i am sure both of these cars are going to be made for years to come.

I really think that if they don't meet emissions standards they will be fined. And then the cost will just be added into the cars.

Like a gas guzzler tax.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

I really think that if they don't meet emissions standards they will be fined. And then the cost will just be added into the cars.

Like a gas guzzler tax.

Doesn't Lamborghini, like Porsche, fall under the VW umbrella?

With talk of spinning Ferrari off of FIAT Spa., I don't see how they'd ever meet emissions requirements as a stand alone manufacturer, unless that would put them under the limit to be in compliance.

[Mingwan]

"It's a numbers game ladies and gentlemen." The 458 was outclassed by the older 12c. The 650s outperforms the 458 by an even larger margin. Its hard to compete with turbocharged vehicles because they're simply better at making power and tq, and give the manufacturer the opportunity to more effectively manipulate the performance of the vehicle. This is great for marketing and model differentiation (use same motor for all vehicles, define power for lower end models, the sheeple won't know). I really can't think of any other way ferrari can keep up with the numbers game while using n/a engines while the competition is swaying towards turbocharging for the most part.

[AW335TT]

A little taste of what it sounds like.

[Ezio]

I can tell it doesn't have has much of a scream as the n/a . but its still a exotic sound.

[Law]

Not bad.
Of course not a crisp NA noise but seems like it still purrs along quite nicely.

A sigh of relief that there are no annoying flatulence noises.

[Razzy]

Hmm. I'm not as saddened by that noise as I thought I would be.