[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Who is saying trust the driver? Where's the accountability for the driver.

You inherently trust the driver if you're prepared to share the road as they hurtle along at great speed in a vehicle weighing 100X the one you are using.

Who cares about accountability? I mean it is all fine in principle but who cares when you're dead?

It's bonkers, too many drivers are distracted for me to trust them enough to ride alongside virtually unprotected.

[2008M36MT]

Cycling on any roads where motor vehicles drive should be illegal, as is driving motor vehicles is on sidewalks. Where I live these asshats cycle in large groups on one lane country back roads, sometimes 2 wide so they can talk. Selfish entitled assholes. You can afford a $1000 bike, go build a track for your little biker gang. As for primary mode of commute? Again, you can afford a $1000 road bike with a custom outfit, you can afford a car.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

Cycling on any roads where motor vehicles drive should be illegal, as is driving motor vehicles is on sidewalks. Where I live these asshats cycle in large groups on one lane country back roads, sometimes 2 wide so they can talk. Selfish entitled assholes. You can afford a $1000 bike, go build a track for your little biker gang. As for primary mode of commute? Again, you can afford a $1000 road bike with a custom outfit, you can afford a car.

[2008M36MT]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Sighs indeed, I was hoping I wouldn’t have to see any of them on a Thursday at 5:00PM but it was wishful thinking. Look how small the area behind the white line is.

You do understand they are practicing a hobby right? Where they average a speed 20mph below the speed limit? Where most people drive at the speed limit? Where most people observe a flow which they disturb? Where the roads are winding? Where there are hills? Where they occupy less physical space which makes them harder to see? All of which creates less than optimal conditions for safe driving for drivers going the same way and the opposite way? All to practice a hobby? Just because a law makes something legal, doesn’t mean it’s not a stupid law.
All to practice a hobby. I should go put a basketball goal on the side of the road and petit on for a law change. Sigh.

Sorry don’t know why this has my fathers ruffled so badly, must be a shitty day at work. But it doesn’t change the selfish nature of what they are doing, which again is practicing a hobby.

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

I don't necessarily think they're stupid but it seems like a lot of cyclists do it to make a point and piss drivers off. They think just because there's a bike lane - they should be entitled to the road.

The thing is, I'd rather be in the wrong and alive than in the right and dead.

They prove a point alright, to their family and friends.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

Sighs indeed, I was hoping I wouldn’t have to see any of them on a Thursday at 5:00PM but it was wishful thinking. Look how small the area behind the white line is.

You do understand they are practicing a hobby right? Where they average a speed 20mph below the speed limit? Where most people drive at the speed limit? Where most people observe a flow which they disturb? Where the roads are winding? Where there are hills? Where they occupy less physical space which makes them harder to see? All of which creates less than optimal conditions for safe driving for drivers going the same way and the opposite way? All to practice a hobby? Just because a law makes something legal, doesn’t mean it’s not a stupid law.
All to practice a hobby. I should go put a basketball goal on the side of the road and petit on for a law change. Sigh.

Sorry don’t know why this has my fathers ruffled so badly, must be a shitty day at work. But it doesn’t change the selfish nature of what they are doing, which again is practicing a hobby.

Or the entitlement I'm seeing on here. If you're so bent out of shape about a law you feel is so unjust, then do something about it instead of whining on the Internet.

[2008M36MT]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Or the entitlement I'm seeing on here. If you're so bent out of shape about a law you feel is so unjust, then do something about it instead of whining on the Internet.

That’s what the internet is for my friend. I’m sure you’ve never disagreed with anything passionately or whined about anything on this forum right? How about the entitlement of assuming that I’m not doing anything about the law? Let’s not take it there. I expressed my strong opinions on an Internet forum, feel free to agree or disagree with them.

Edit: Love the partial quote as well, where I even caveat that it just may be one of those days😄

[ASAP]

I think the main issue here is the laws here are entirely undefined... and in the worst of ways.

Pedestrians are allowed only on sidewalks and are only allowed to cross streets.

Cars are only allowed on streets... never on sidewalks.

Bikes, mopeds, e bikes whatever are allowed everywhere = this creates a shitshow and why it's so dangerous... this why there were so many deaths and accidents when lyft uber and all these others introduced scooters and ebikes to metro areas. You had unlicensed riders riding with licensed people and 4K lbs vehicles... this is genuinely a recipe for disaster.

In the end, everyone on a bike feels they are entitled to all roadways at all times... including streets where you have licensed drivers THAT CAN ONLY go on streets... you can see how this creates a shitshow and major frustration on the part of drivers. There is too much of a variance in size, speed and traffic for this to work and it only harms the people in cars from a logistical perspective.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Bikes, mopeds, e bikes whatever are allowed everywhere

Yeah, that's not good.

Over here, no bikes in pedestrian areas (sidewalk/pavements, etc). Except common sense exceptions like little kids - still not in law I think, but police will actively tell kids/parents to ride on the pavement if it's going to be safer overall. Also no bikes on motorways.

Laws over her changed recently so that the most vulnerable road users are protected; bikes give way to pedestrians, motorbikes give way to bikes, cars give way to motorbikes, etc.

I honestly think the world would be a better place if all motorists had experience of how vulnerable a cyclist is on the road; might give them an appreciation for how eye-wateringly fast 30mph is, and how fragile the world outside of their 2000kg safety cage is.

I used to ride thousands of miles a year on the road - didn't have a car, and was happier and far healthier for it. Nowadays the thought of it is pretty scary, so I stick to dodging trees on my MTB when time allows.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Yeah, that's not good.

Over here, no bikes in pedestrian areas (sidewalk/pavements, etc). Except common sense exceptions like little kids - still not in law I think, but police will actively tell kids/parents to ride on the pavement if it's going to be safer overall. Also no bikes on motorways.

Laws over her changed recently so that the most vulnerable road users are protected; bikes give way to pedestrians, motorbikes give way to bikes, cars give way to motorbikes, etc.

I honestly think the world would be a better place if all motorists had experience of how vulnerable a cyclist is on the road; might give them an appreciation for how eye-wateringly fast 30mph is, and how fragile the world outside of their 2000kg safety cage is.

I used to ride thousands of miles a year on the road - didn't have a car, and was happier and far healthier for it. Nowadays the thought of it is pretty scary, so I stick to dodging trees on my MTB when time allows.

yea this is the key - even for our bicycles, we rarely have bike lanes and when we have them they are either on the side of a very dangerous road with a 45 mph speed limit lol or literally ON the road where the car traffic is backed up... all this is a recipe for disaster which is why its safest to always ride on sidewalks like I do... but I am always respectful of people on sidewalks as where i live we have almost no people on sidewalks so its ok... in a large city... forget it, my bike would be sold tomorrow or for parks only

[Serf27]

I can’t even trust drivers in other cars, while I’m in my car. I’m not going to cycle and have cars blow past me at 45mph.
Even walking on the side walk isn’t that safe now.
This is a normal(?) city. I could see maybe a packed city like NYC where carts don’t travel as fast.
I have seen a few cyclists in the main car lane when no bike lane is available. Just there acting like another car.
Same goes for walking on the street when there is clearly a dirt path (desert city) 10ft away from the road.
The chances of getting hit are low, but they are never zero.
I’ll stick with bike trails.

[br438]

"Don't save the internet. Don't save the internet. Don't save the internet...."

dangit!!!

Whomever said they blow through stopsigns/stoplights on a bike because... "stopping" is hard. Holy crap. As a cyclist, ... ugh... arrgh... flllpppp... I have no idea how to... explain.... errr....



We do have access to public roads and are fully entitled to them in most places... and (can't believe I'm typing this) subject to the same laws. If you (and others) continue to be an qzzhat, then things will probably change for you and sadly, for all of us.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

if everyone (cars, trucks, motorcyclists, cyclists) pays attention to what the hell they're doing on the roads, it wouldn't be so risky for everyone to share the same road.

Last I checked, and continue to observe, paying attention while on the road on or in any sort of vehicle is a declining thing.

That's the principal reason I chose to stick with automobiles exclusively when I really, really wanted to get a bike again while living in beautiful Northern New England with its plethora of twisty and winding country roads just made for bikes and genuine sports cars.

Competing with mom racing her kids to soccer practice in the minivan looked like a distinctly losing proposition to this potential motorcycle rider, and the stats bore that out.

Had I been 50 years younger, my risk tolerance calculation might well have turned out differently. My survival, too, of course.

Originally Posted by Serf27

I can’t even trust drivers in other cars, while I’m in my car. I’m not going to cycle and have cars blow past me at 45mph.
Even walking on the side walk isn’t that safe now.

I live a 5 minute walk from the major, full-service grocery store at which I principally shop. Including driving and parking, it takes just as long to drive there. Walking to that store makes no sense if one's personal safety is paramount. There is a sufficient percentage of today's drivers who are simply not present while driving as to make travel by any means on our streets significantly more unsafe than it used to be. I have no data to back up my assertion; it's simply my observation from the last handful of years.

[Serf27]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I live a 5 minute walk from the major, full-service grocery store at which I principally shop. Including driving and parking, it takes just as long to drive there. Walking to that store makes no sense if one's personal safety is paramount. There is a sufficient percentage of today's drivers who are simply not present while driving as to make travel by any means on our streets significantly more unsafe than it used to be. I have no data to back up my assertion; it's simply my observation from the last handful of years.

There’s an ice cream shop about .7 miles from us. We rode our bikes there last year because it would be “fun”. The way there and back, mind you we were on a side walk, I was paranoid that someone would jump over the curb.
I see curbs with tire marks on them, sometimes business signs are damaged from cars crashing into them, nope.
Why put myself in that situation when it’s not needed and when I can drive to a biking trail? Cars can’t even stop from hitting each other, not to mention all the road rage and hit and runs that happen too!

If you cycle on the streets, that’s cool. I’ll keep and eye out for you.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by erickonphoenix

well, give me a minute to slip on my flame retardant vest...

a few reasons.

1. Most of the bike lanes have road debris in them which can puncture a tire or be a hazard.
2. It takes forever to get a bike moving from a stop, if the intersections clear go for it
3. It's much easier to transition to a cross street from the center lane
4. it's fun as hell

It takes a LOT more energy to get my 2T mass moving; to stop it too.

There might be more tolerance if bicyclists followed the rules they demand motor vehicles follow. They want the rights, then they have to follow the rules. My wife was out biking one day (for exercise around our 'hood) and almost got mowed over by another cyclist that didn't think he needed to stop at the same stop sign (my wife stopped at the sign).

For all you that think riding on the sidewalk is a good thing, my wife and I have almost been mowed down by (mainly) kids that come whipping around corners on the sidewalk. Sidewalks are for pedestrians, NOT bicyclists! It also happens to be illegal to ride on the sidewalk here.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

This thread is nuts! Have some tolerance, people. Live and let live (literally and figuratively).

I have plenty of tolerance for cyclists, but I think there is a deeper issue in society as a whole with entitlement, as well as stupidity.

I see plenty of cyclists around the university where I work. You can easily tell which ones are the commuters, and which are the boneheads on bikes. The commuters mostly follow traffic laws, wear bright colored clothing, are riding on the correct side of the road, etc, because they don't want to get hit and know the consequences of not being seen. The boneheads are sidewalk hopping, weaving through traffic, and running stop signs.

I live in a quiet neighborhood, but even that has more morons than ever it seems. I can't count how many times I've been headed home from work, and I come around a corner to a group of people walking three across in the road, on a blind corner, wearing dark clothing at night. That is both ignorant and entitled. Sure, you have the right of way, but you will still be dead if someone can't see you because you are too entitled to take your surroundings into consideration.

[Tambohamilton]

Totally agree that many cyclists - even serious ones - don't do themselves any favours.

[eluded]

Bless them for risking their lives exercising and saving the environment.

[Dang3r]

In order to inform possible tourists for Germany: Cyclists are allowed here to ride on streets or walkways except its regulated by signs. Only Autobahn and Motorways are forbidden.
On road you have to take a distance of at least 1.5 Meters at overtaking to keep the risk low.

I am not a fan of this, those guys are thinking partially, the road belongs to them now and when they are additionally don't pay attention to traffic lights, stop signs and give-way rules... I'm out!

[Th3Walrus]

Originally Posted by Dang3r

In order to inform possible tourists for Germany: Cyclists are allowed here to ride on streets or walkways except its regulated by signs. Only Autobahn and Motorways are forbidden.
On road you have to take a distance of at least 1.5 Meters at overtaking to keep the risk low.

I am not a fan of this, those guys are thinking partially, the road belongs to them now and when they are additionally don't pay attention to traffic lights, stop signs and give-way rules... I'm out!

That's the same here in Ontario, Canada EXCEPT bikes are not allowed on sidewalks (walkways) unless you are a child. Adults must ride on the road. Bikes are not allowed on controlled access highways.

[Alfisti]

Some of you mention not trusting even walking on the footpath. If i am standing at an intersection I always stand behind an electrical pole to keep something between myself and the traffic. Most drivers are on another planet and not focused.

[CTinline-six]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

There was recently a guy in Dana Point who was killed doing it...he was cycling down the busy PCH and he was ran over.

I don't necessarily think they're stupid but it seems like a lot of cyclists do it to make a point and piss drivers off. They think just because there's a bike lane - they should be entitled to the road.

They don't realize they are clogging up traffic and preventing people from getting to work while they can exercise. It's selfish and I don't understand who invented 'share the road' anyways when people have places to be?

I think "share the road" makes sense. The problem is many cyclists and people walking take that saying to mean "share the road with me, but I don't have to share it with you". Sharing the road should mean being cognizant of your surroundings and the other people on the road, not just expecting them to go around you because you have the right of way and can do whatever you want. If I'm walking my dog on my street and cars are approaching, I move onto the grass to ensure they have plenty of room.