[TJR_///M3]

Originally Posted by forcefed

Name an ev under 3400lbs.

Tesla Roadster

[ubercruise]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Ok, it’s not a bastard platform in that it wasn’t some kind of Frankenstein experiment to add EV powertrain. But it’s a huge compromise. Any full BEV on a platform that can be full ice is a huge compromise. There are just too many packaging efficiencies inherent in the freedom of the EV powertrain (and one huge issue, the battery) to try to call it anything but.

Agreed on this. CLAR is nice and fine and it works for BEV, but NK has me excited because a ground-up BEV platform is just going to be that much better.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Its not $25k more if you don't add option that a TM3P can't have.

Better build for the Tesla? No
Better service? No
Better paint? No
Better ride? No
Better tech? No; no HUD, no hands free, no real 360 camera, no real tactile interface.
Better paint? No
Better interior? No
Better performance? No look at real world tests
Color and interior options on BMW for the win!

But a Tesla is better than an i4? Okay

It's hard to sell the i4 M50 to a person that doesn't appreciate quality and aervice.
Don't confuse deals on the i4 eDrive35 and the discounts on the M50.

The i4 M50 was BMWs best selling M labeled car in 2022 and 2023.

I’d pay the extra for the i4 M50 to have a car that feels better and has a service center I can rely on.

And I’d sleep at night knowing my dollars aren’t supporting a corrupt bastard.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Ok, it’s not a bastard platform in that it wasn’t some kind of Frankenstein experiment to add EV powertrain. But it’s a huge compromise. Any full BEV on a platform that can be full ice is a huge compromise. There are just too many packaging efficiencies inherent in the freedom of the EV powertrain (and one huge issue, the battery) to try to call it anything but.

No necessarily if you design your packaging correctly. The compromise was the floor higher so battery underneath.

The tunnel add torsional rigidity and strength.
The tunnel has battery and cabling. They change the mounting for rear differential to use motors and the front is changed.

BMW uses economy of scale and they can adapt their manufacturing to deliver EV, hybrid or ICE depending on customer demand.

Tesla never made cars so they could afford to be EV only platform.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by forcefed

Name an ev under 3400lbs.

My i3 was 3000 iirc, and was one of my favorite BMWs I’ve ever had. Top 2 for sure.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

What I’m saying is my model three performance comes fully loaded for 55 grand with 20 inch wheels with a 300 mile plus range

And a better UI with an exception of no android auto or no Apple CarPlay

It has 20 inch staggered wheels and adaptive suspension

It’s a much better value proposition

0-60 is absolutely amazing

Top speed 163

It's a better value proposition for "you" not for "me".

A fully loaded TM3P is not the same as a fully loaded i4 M50. Not even close.

I can show you my build sheet of you like.
For my additional $25k I got individual full Merino leather. I got laser lights, individual paint, HUD, and a host of other things.

My 0-60 is amazing andy car will do 1g or lateral acceleration.

Top speed is 130 and gets there quick. The 163 in a TM3P takes how long to get there? You also aren't doing long with aerodynamic drag being an exponential function for the power required to overcome it.

I'm glad you like your TM3P, but please to try to extol the virtues when I prefer a car that's a car first vs a vehicle that's an appliance with the soul of a marshmallow.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I wish people that didn't know would stop saying the CLAR is a bastard platform for EV when it isn't.

CLAR or Cluster Architecture was designed to support ICE, Hybrid and EV.

Lucid developed their battery and motor tech to be as powerful and efficient as possible. They provided tech for Formula E.

But I'm reality it's less than 5% of people that need more than 300 miles of range.

There isn't really an infrastructure problem right now with most people charging at home, but it makes people comfortable to be able to charge anywhere. Costco is now in a partnership with Electrify America. I personally will never use anything Tesla because I dislike Elon the Moron

There will be EV, Hybrid and ICE for the foreseeable future. ICE makes sense for hard to reach places because you can truck the fuel in or even make fuel from Bio mass.

CLAR is absolutely a “bastard platform” given it is not an EV-dedicated platform. You will always have compromises with a shared vs. dedicated platform. It’s pretty clear that the platform was mainly dedicated to ICE given the packaging. Or did you not notice that features available in nearly every other EV (frunk) aren’t available in the i4? What does the “frunk” of an i4 most remind you of? Oh that’s right, the engine in an ICE vehicle.

You are staking ICE being around for the “forseeable future” on edge demand cases like “hard to reach places”? By definition, “trucking” fuel in is hard to do in “hard to reach” places. Not sure I buy that.

I think ICE vehicles will exist in a niche (e.g. for taking to the track), but don’t see them being the predominate vehicle after the 2030’s.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

No necessarily if you design your packaging correctly. The compromise was the floor higher so battery underneath.

The tunnel add torsional rigidity and strength.
The tunnel has battery and cabling. They change the mounting for rear differential to use motors and the front is changed.

BMW uses economy of scale and they can adapt their manufacturing to deliver EV, hybrid or ICE depending on customer demand.

Tesla never made cars so they could afford to be EV only platform.

Watch the latest interview with Peter Rawlinson of Lucid on Savageese’s channel and then ask yourself if you really believe that.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

It's a better value proposition for "you" not for "me".

A fully loaded TM3P is not the same as a fully loaded i4 M50. Not even close.

I can show you my build sheet of you like.
For my additional $25k I got individual full Merino leather. I got laser lights, individual paint, HUD, and a host of other things.

My 0-60 is amazing andy car will do 1g or lateral acceleration.

Top speed is 130 and gets there quick. The 163 in a TM3P takes how long to get there? You also aren't doing long with aerodynamic drag being an exponential function for the power required to overcome it.

I'm glad you like your TM3P, but please to try to extol the virtues when I prefer a car that's a car first vs a vehicle that's an appliance with the soul of a marshmallow.

It’s relentless all the way to 160+

This new Model 3 is a much better car than one it replaces

It doesn’t have animal skin, but I love the new sport seats, and I like the 25k sitting in my Fidelity account instead

[B58-M340iX]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

This new Model 3 is a much better car than one it replaces

I love getting a dig going with the previous M3P in my M340 on e50. I'd always give the owners a surprise. The new one? I'd lose, heh.

I do agree that the overly minimalistic tendencies of the TM3P isn't my cup of earl grey. I'd much rather have what BMW offers in the i4 or the upcoming BEVs. Although, at that price, we may be comparing the TMS than the TM3P.

[McLaren720s]

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by robopp

‘Super car’ that weighs 5100lbs and can carry two people. 😂

Do you have resale data you can share?

Graham Rahal has a used one for sale. Call them, ask for the price. But hurry up...

[mtr3]

Thought April fools day was a few months away…

[speedmaster20d]

how much is it going to weigh ? 5000 lbs? thanks but no. it would be interesting to see how it works out, BMW will certainly lose some long time customers like myself, but will gain some new ones ? ....time will tell ...

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by speedmaster20d

how much is it going to weigh ? 5000 lbs? thanks but no. it would be interesting to see how it works out, BMW will certainly lose some long time customers like myself, but will gain some new ones ? ....time will tell ...

I sincerely doubt it will weigh anything close to that number

Don’t doubt BMW M, they’ve not about failure, but about setting the bar as high as humanly possible

[Moo123]

Originally Posted by speedmaster20d

how much is it going to weigh ? 5000 lbs? thanks but no. it would be interesting to see how it works out, BMW will certainly lose some long time customers like myself, but will gain some new ones ? ....time will tell ...

What's your Problem? You don't want to Drive EV? Than don't. At least BMW will provide you another generation of Inline R6 or even V8 while others go for "4-cylinder high Performance Cars"

[///MPhatic]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

There's a reason why most trains have electric motors, many cruise ships have pod motors, ski lifts have electric motors, etc. It would obviously be archaic to use gas motors to power vacuum cleaners, blenders, hair dryers, etc. Electric motors are much more compact, don't require multi-gear transmissions, exhaust systems, air cleaners, etc.

That's a lot of words to entirely miss the point of driving for pleasure.

Originally Posted by hotrod182

There will be a day when the gas engine is missed just as much as horse drawn carriages.

Almost assuredly, and I'm happy that I won't live to see that day.

Originally Posted by hotrod182

And even at the current state of battery technology, the EVs surpass gas cars in so many metrics.

But not the most important ones.

You keep your toaster, it'll never replace what I use a vehicle for because ICE touches more of the senses.

Game.
Set.
Match.

Here's your sign. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

[Maverick241]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Its not $25k more if you don't add option that a TM3P can't have.

Better build for the Tesla? No
Better service? No
Better paint? No
Better ride? No
Better tech? No; no HUD, no hands free, no real 360 camera, no real tactile interface.
Better paint? No
Better interior? No
Better performance? No look at real world tests
Color and interior options on BMW for the win!

But a Tesla is better than an i4? Okay

It's hard to sell the i4 M50 to a person that doesn't appreciate quality and aervice.
Don't confuse deals on the i4 eDrive35 and the discounts on the M50.

The i4 M50 was BMWs best selling M labeled car in 2022 and 2023.

Huh? With FSD it’s completely hands free, is light years ahead of BMWs ADAS and is still cheaper than a fully spec’d i4 M50

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

That's a lot of words to entirely miss the point of driving for pleasure.



Almost assuredly, and I'm happy that I won't live to see that day.



But not the most important ones.

You keep your toaster, it'll never replace what I use a vehicle for because ICE touches more of the senses.

Game.
Set.
Match.

Here's your sign. by Andrew Thompson, on Flickr

Well said .
They can pry my 8k rpm S54 from my cold dead hands
No amount of 0-60 advertising will ever replace the visceral feeling of a proper M engine

[spuntyb]

will be interesting to see the full reveal. i forget, are they going to offer the ICE and BEV together? or am i just dreaming that i read that?

anyways, i realize now what i hate most about the new design language and it’s the hood line that sits just below the silhouette of the car. it’s *so* jarring and clumsy. that’s not revealed here, but it sure looks like it will have that same element.

but who knows…

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by jmack123

CLAR is absolutely a “bastard platform” given it is not an EV-dedicated platform. You will always have compromises with a shared vs. dedicated platform. It’s pretty clear that the platform was mainly dedicated to ICE given the packaging. Or did you not notice that features available in nearly every other EV (frunk) aren’t available in the i4? What does the “frunk” of an i4 most remind you of? Oh that’s right, the engine in an ICE vehicle.

You are staking ICE being around for the “forseeable future” on edge demand cases like “hard to reach places”? By definition, “trucking” fuel in is hard to do in “hard to reach” places. Not sure I buy that.

I think ICE vehicles will exist in a niche (e.g. for taking to the track), but don’t see them being the predominate vehicle after the 2030’s.

On the e-drive 40, there is plenty of room for a frunk under that cover. BMW deliberately did not choose to use that open space.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by jmack123

CLAR is absolutely a “bastard platform” given it is not an EV-dedicated platform. You will always have compromises with a shared vs. dedicated platform. It’s pretty clear that the platform was mainly dedicated to ICE given the packaging. Or did you not notice that features available in nearly every other EV (frunk) aren’t available in the i4? What does the “frunk” of an i4 most remind you of? Oh that’s right, the engine in an ICE vehicle.

You are staking ICE being around for the “forseeable future” on edge demand cases like “hard to reach places”? By definition, “trucking” fuel in is hard to do in “hard to reach” places. Not sure I buy that.

I think ICE vehicles will exist in a niche (e.g. for taking to the track), but don’t see them being the predominate vehicle after the 2030’s.

A platform deigned for multiple drivetrain variants may involve some compromise but it is anything but a "bastard" or "Frankenstein".

I'm an engineer and design decisions don't equal a "bastard" having to go back and retrofit does.

BMW is not Tesla, Rivian or Lucid and does not have the luxury of just going in all EV and foresake customer choice.

Just because others have a "drink" doesn't mean everyone must. If that's the case then everyone should have a HUD because it's just plain better. Also a "frunk" with heavy objects would change the steering and handling dynamic. You don't want to have weight changes and objects shifting above your steering. Which is also why the i4 has self leveling in the rear. But engineering seems to escape some folks.

As a manufacturer that has to deal with an existing customer base, BMW, Mercedes and others will continue to build ICE, hybrids and BEV in the numbers the customer demands and government regulations allow.

ICE will be around because EV will never be a thing in the middle of Africa, South America or the Outback. You can transport gas anywhere and you can turn biomass in to fuel *anywhere*.