[BMW269]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

My main point is that while BMW may not have a supercar to compete with the LF-A, they do have a long list of other performance vehicles in just about every market sector.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that point.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

My main point is that while BMW may not have a supercar to compete with the LF-A, they do have a long list of other performance vehicles in just about every market sector.

Well it seems everyone gets continuously drawn into the supercar argument. BMW historically has not been about semi-tangible technological prowess. I say semi-tangible because that's all it is for 99% of us with these behemoths of speed. An everyday exceptionally engineered drivers car has been centric to BMWs philosophy, so it makes sense that the supercar ideology doesn't fit there and why they never made another one since the M1.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Well it seems everyone gets continuously drawn into the supercar argument. BMW historically has not been about semi-tangible technological prowess. I say semi-tangible because that's all it is for 99% of us with these behemoths of speed. An everyday exceptionally engineered drivers car has been centric to BMWs philosophy, so it makes sense that the supercar ideology doesn't fit there and why they never made another one since the M1.

Your argument would be correct if we were in year 1994, or if today BMW had only 3 Series, 5 Series, 7 Series and a Z in their model portfolio. But now BMW builds SUVs, SUVs coupé, GT's, and FWD vans. How is that centric to BMWs philosophy? As times change, so does BMW, thus the products mentioned above. There is then no reason for "supercar" not to fit. Wait, BMW has a supercar - sort of: the i8. So your argument is totally invalid in 2014.

[KingOfJericho]

I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. Every manufacturer will admit that their halo programs are nothing more than marketing (and lose money) in an effort to sell more regular cars which are very profitable.

While I don't love the fact that BMW is trying to sell a car to every man, woman, and child on the planet, I do love that they haven't done that so at the expense of the enthusiast. If anything, they've catered more to them. In the 90s, if you drove an M3 as your daily but needed to take a road trip with the family, you had to hop into a Ford Explorer or Toyota 4Runner. Nowadays, you can pile the family into an X5M and not suffer from one iota of performance withdrawal.

BMW has always built driver's cars and cars for enthusiasts. They've expanded their product offering by building cars that appeal to a broader audience. On the flipside, Toyota has built some legendary cars while also building cars for your grandmother. They built the Supra twin turbo and MR-2 turbo at the same time they were building the Previa and Camry. The difference is that they cut the performance division entirely and now exclusively focus on the soccer mom crowd instead of expanding the entire line, including performance variants. That's the difference.

[1chanc3]

I want this car.

If it comes out with 300+hp and is around $50k (doubt it), I will definitely sell my 335i for it.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Levi

Your argument would be correct if we were in year 1994, or if today BMW had only 3 Series, 5 Series, 7 Series and a Z in their model portfolio. But now BMW builds SUVs, SUVs coupé, GT's, and FWD vans. How is that centric to BMWs philosophy? As times change, so does BMW, thus the products mentioned above. There is then no reason for "supercar" not to fit. Wait, BMW has a supercar - sort of: the i8. So your argument is totally invalid in 2014.

Note my heavy use of the past tense in my previous comment. I would say in the last 10 years BMW has been having an existential identity crisis.

I would argue that they still hold the focus of building an every day car, and that even still past that except for maybe the last 5 years they have focused on drivers cars. That seems to be less and less the case now, but even still we get a few every few year model revamps.

[NickyC]

Toyota is pretty much dead to me, which is amazing. Back in the 90s I owned three MKII MR2 turbos, and two MKIV twin turbo Supras. I never thought I'd drive another brand for the rest of my life at the time, I cannot believe how far they've fallen from building exciting cars.

This concept car doesn't even look that great. What the hell is up with those seats? That leather looks absolutely disgusting.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by NickyC

What the hell is up with those seats? That leather looks absolutely disgusting.

I don't like it on the wheel but I think it looks absolutely incredible on the seats. That being said, it doesn't look comfortable at all. It looks like a very tough/hard leather. At the end of the day, that leather is only for the show car and will surely not make it to production (if the car ever does in the first place...).

[fcman]

The Toyota performance cars are coming back, the GT86 is arguably the best drivers car of the decade to date. They also have the RC F, GS F, and most likely IS F on the way. As well as, hopefully, this FT-1 concept and whatever project they are working on with BMW. The Lexus offerings aren't as appealing to me as the BMW M lineup, but it's pretty obvious Toyota hasn't completely abandoned the performance car yet.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by fcman

The Toyota performance cars are coming back, the GT86 is arguably the best drivers car of the decade to date. They also have the RC F, GS F, and most likely IS F on the way. As well as, hopefully, this FT-1 concept and whatever project they are working on with BMW. The Lexus offerings aren't as appealing to me as the BMW M lineup, but it's pretty obvious Toyota hasn't completely abandoned the performance car yet.

They HAD abandoned performance cars for about a decade (between Supra and IS F). No argument that they are making a serious effort to bring them back.