[cjwb1984]

Longitudinal TWIN TURBO V6!!!

After two decades of sitting way behind the bench. Honda (Acura) has finally showed some punching power. I hope that this halo car will change perception of Acura in the US.

But damn.... Acura please design some good looking car and definitely change to a FR platform. As long you stick to this front wheel drive transverse setup, you can never be a major player in todays luxury market. Infiniti in a few years time will be making noise, if they are smart use the Red Bull F1 team's success to drive that marketing. BMW is BMW, along with the likes of Mercedes, and the establish luxury AWD Quattro brand of Audi.

That aside, I'm very excited to see what this car can do.

http://www.edmunds.com/auto-shows/to...auto-show.html

http://www.motortrend.com/features/a...train_changes/



From that sketch the whole powertrain sits very low.



I'm a car fan, no matter what brand and emblem it has. If a car is great, it's great. And the NSX have certainly establish itself in history. And I'm little bias of the Honda McLaren connection back in the Ayrton Senna days, LOL. I'm looking forward to the next chapter in F1.

[b0bab0i]

If they price this car at the projected ~$160k, it will be a failure.

[BMW269]

My new dream car after the Lexus LFA:

This car is a game-changer. Hybrid+FI+AWD+AWS= ZeroCompetition



For 150K it is a bargain knowing how capable it is. 458 Italia replacement will be the first Ferrari after a long time to get again a turbocharged engine. California replacement will get the current NA 4.5l V8 detuned to about 520 PS, I heard the 458 replacement will get a 3.4l V8 biturbo. Not the same engine as the 3.8l V8 in Maserati.


Ferrari will have no more advantage without NA engines, just as BMW now has no more.

[KingOfJericho]

I'm sure you're aware, but Ferrari's greatest car, the F40, was a twin turbo V8. Many people who buy Ferraris generally aren't going out and test driving all of the competition, they just want to buy a Ferrari. People don't work their whole lives to finally be able to purchase an Acura or a Lexus, they do it to buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini. An Acura is a very tough sell at $150k.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I'm sure you're aware, but Ferrari's greatest car, the F40, was a twin turbo V8. Many people who buy Ferraris generally aren't going out and test driving all of the competition, they just want to buy a Ferrari. People don't work their whole lives to finally be able to purchase an Acura or a Lexus, they do it to buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini. An Acura is a very tough sell at $150k.

The only car people work their whole life to buy is BMW and Porsche (911). All other people buy cars according to their abilities, with 1 Mio on my bank account I'm not buying a Ferrari. Maybe with 3 Mio, and that is the case of most buyers (statistics out of the air). But you get what I'm saying.

From another perspective, compare BMW i8 and Honda NSX. Is the i8 worth its M6 pricetag for sub M4 performance and Z4 practicality? The NSX on the other hand is right up next to the supercars, with outstanding look and individuality, but for 911 pricetag. Isn't it sometimes boring to look at the badge only? How to differentiate from all the 911 and Ferraris, while having a car up to those standards? There is only one way: Japanese: GT-R, LFA, and now NSX. The other way is BMW i8, but that is a joke in the eyes of Porsche and Ferrari.

[KingOfJericho]

You only need to look at sales of the VW Phaeton and Hyundai Equus/Genesis to see that most consumers do, in fact, care about the badge on the car. Nissan sold less GT-Rs in the whole of 2008 through 2012 that Porsche sold 911s in 2012 alone.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

You only need to look at sales of the VW Phaeton and Hyundai Equus/Genesis to see that most consumers do, in fact, care about the badge on the car. Nissan sold less GT-Rs in the whole of 2008 through 2012 that Porsche sold 911s in 2012 alone.

Are you saying Nissan should stop building GT-R because Porsche sells more 911's, Subaru should stop building WRX because VW sells more GTI's, Maserati should stop building Quattroporte because Mercedes sells more S Class', and BMW should stop building Z4, because Mazda sells more MX-5's?


You may also have to look who are those GT-R owners? 90% of them car enthusiast (the minority and thus the reason why BMW has no intention to please them, aka BMW going soft) compared to Porsche where most of them are sold with PDK and AWD, that hints at non enthusiast but just badge/status whores. It could be even more extreme at Ferrari.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Levi

Are you saying Nissan should stop building GT-R because Porsche sells more 911's, Subaru should stop building WRX because VW sells more GTI's, Maserati should stop building Quattroporte because Mercedes sells more S Class', and BMW should stop building Z4, because Mazda sells more MX-5's?

No. I never said any car company should stop building any car. Calm yourself. My point is that people do care about a badge more than performance. The GT-R runs circles around everything in its price range but it is outsold several times over by the competition from premium brands.

[thebishman]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

You only need to look at sales of the VW Phaeton and Hyundai Equus/Genesis to see that most consumers do, in fact, care about the badge on the car. Nissan sold less GT-Rs in the whole of 2008 through 2012 that Porsche sold 911s in 2012 alone.

I get the point about badge snobbishness but re: the GT-R. Nissan can only make about 12K cars per year for the whole world iirc because the engine and transmission are assembled in a clean room and are very labour intensive.
Bish

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by thebishman

I get the point about badge snobbishness but re: the GT-R. Nissan can only make about 12K cars per year for the whole world iirc because the engine and transmission are assembled in a clean room and are very labour intensive.
Bish

Right, but that doesn't explain why they've never sold more than 2,000 in a year.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

No. I never said any car company should stop building any car. Calm yourself. My point is that people do care about a badge more than performance. The GT-R runs circles around everything in its price range but it is outsold several times over by the competition from premium brands.

I do agree the badge is important, but not for true enthusiasts, and it is normal for every person to have his fetish brand. Sales are not a good indicator of how good something is, even though they point some truth. Nissan being, not special, it is then good that the sales volume is lower, it makes the car more special. I can't tell, but where I live (Stuttgart) if I wanted to turn heads, I'd drive a GT-R, 911 and SLS are a common thing, nothing special, even though not everybody can buy one, and everybody would like to own one. Look at Maserati, quantitatively it is a worse car than the BMW 6 Series, yet costs much more and is more special. GT-R is like the 6 Series, but has to compete with the bigger boys, which are much better than a Maserati also on quantitative level. To make clear, a Porsche is in all ways better than a Ferrari, yet the later is still considered to be the ultimate sports car.

[speedaddictM3]

I just wonder how well it will perform compared to the GTR. The GTR Nismo just did 7:08 around the Ring. If the new NSX will be priced the same it better be comparable in performance or it may not sell.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Levi

I do agree the badge is important, but not for true enthusiasts, and it is normal for every person to have his fetish brand. Sales are not a good indicator of how good something is, even though they point some truth. Nissan being, not special, it is then good that the sales volume is lower, it makes the car more special. I can't tell, but where I live (Stuttgart) if I wanted to turn heads, I'd drive a GT-R, 911 and SLS are a common thing, nothing special, even though not everybody can buy one, and everybody would like to own one. Look at Maserati, quantitatively it is a worse car than the BMW 6 Series, yet costs much more and is more special. GT-R is like the 6 Series, but has to compete with the bigger boys, which are much better than a Maserati also on quantitative level. To make clear, a Porsche is in all ways better than a Ferrari, yet the later is still considered to be the ultimate sports car.

I don't disagree with anything you said here.

[cjwb1984]

Originally Posted by Levi

This car is a game-changer. Hybrid+FI+AWD+AWS= ZeroCompetition

I think Honda definitely got the powertrain right, going for a twin turbo longitudinal V6 with the hybrid setup. The ingredients are there to be a game changer. 500+ total power unit can be "easily" achieve with the electric motor. Most people drive in the 40mph-90mph range, and it has to achieve the daily drivability and comfort of a GT. Along with the ability of what a supercar should do.

The marketing is just going to be unbelievable, Honda back in F1 in 2015 coinciding with the NSX. That's a perfect time as any to release a halo car.


As for the GTR, the performance is unbelievable. But if anybody have driven one, its incredibly stiff and harsh. Outside of the smoothest roads which we don't have here in NYC, I don't think I can have that as a livable car.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by cjwb1984

I think Honda definitely got the powertrain right, going for a twin turbo longitudinal V6 with the hybrid setup. The ingredients are there to be a game changer. 500+ total power unit can be "easily" achieve with the electric motor. Most people drive in the 40mph-90mph range, and it has to achieve the daily drivability and comfort of a GT. Along with the ability of what a supercar should do.

The marketing is just going to be unbelievable, Honda back in F1 in 2015 coinciding with the NSX. That's a perfect time as any to release a halo car.


As for the GTR, the performance is unbelievable. But if anybody have driven one, its incredibly stiff and harsh. Outside of the smoothest roads which we don't have here in NYC, I don't think I can have that as a livable car.

Not to forget the return of the Honda Civic Type-R, set to hold the record of the fastest FWD car around the N-Ring (<8:00 min).

I really think the NSX will be faster than the GT-R, and all the other supercars.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by Levi

Not to forget the return of the Honda Civic Type-R, set to hold the record of the fastest FWD car around the N-Ring (<8:00 min).

I really think the NSX will be faster than the GT-R, and all the other supercars.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

He's a character isn't he?

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

LOL. What is wrong?

[F32]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Right, but that doesn't explain why they've never sold more than 2,000 in a year.

The target demographic for a GTR is a lot different than a Porsche. People don't chose a Porsche over a GTR just because of the name. Look at it. It looks like a joke. It's not a car any professional would be seen driving.

In my parking garage in downtown, there really are only three cars. S-Class, Range Rover, or 911 (yes, I work in finance). If someone drove to work in a GTR, they either just finished grad school or they are driving their son's car for the day. They'll get laughed at. The guy driving the Porsche C4S Convertible will get laughed at too, but for different reasons.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by F32

The target demographic for a GTR is a lot different than a Porsche. People don't chose a Porsche over a GTR just because of the name. Look at it. It looks like a joke. It's not a car any professional would be seen driving.

In my parking garage in downtown, there really are only three cars. S-Class, Range Rover, or 911 (yes, I work in finance). If someone drove to work in a GTR, they either just finished grad school or they are driving their son's car for the day. They'll get laughed at. The guy driving the Porsche C4S Convertible will get laughed at too, but for different reasons.

That's the difference between the east and west coast. Cali is a car-centric place. There are millionaire traders in my office building who drive old Wranglers and CEOs who drive A4s and X3s. There is also an SLR and multiple G wagens but nobody cares. It means nothing here. The blanket statements you're making are simply not correct. Nobody is laughing at a GTR here.

[b0bab0i]

Originally Posted by Levi

LOL. What is wrong?

You actually thinking the NSX will be faster than all the other supercars coming out. Laferrari, Mclaren P1, and Porsche 918 just to name a few.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

That's the difference between the east and west coast. Cali is a car-centric place. There are millionaire traders in my office building who drive old Wranglers and CEOs who drive A4s and X3s. There is also an SLR and multiple G wagens but nobody cares. It means nothing here. The blanket statements you're making are simply not correct. Nobody is laughing at a GTR here.

I think his overall point was that most individuals with the coin to buy a GTR and/or working in certain professions wouldn't even consider a GTR. Despite its accolades, it's just not a car that they'd chose nor associate with success. When you see an M, a 7, an S, a Range, a high end Jag, a high end Porsche, etc., you almost immediately associate that person with success. The perception may not parallel reality, but in many cases perception IS, indeed, reality.