[deutschmann59]

that in Singapore, they just hanged some guy for dealing heroin. I mean sure drug dealers are bad, but I think capital punishment should be reserved only for murders. Yeah, the world is probably a better place with one less drug dealer, but I think execution is taking it a bit far--especially a hanging.

You'd think they'd do it a little less barbaric, like an injection or gas or something.

When I first heard about this story, I was like, am I reading this right? They want to hang someone for dealing drugs???!!! Still kind of hard to believe.

I guess it makes you appreciate the "no unusual/cruel punishment" codicil we have here in the US, though I guess the gallows was pretty common about 100 years ago.

[Jimifighter]

Been to Singapore a few times, beautiful country and very safe place. Not sure why but they do not have a drug problem there...strangest thing.

[icedragon]

Well, the US isn't that great either.
Some of the criminals the US executes have an IQ level of a child, which makes you wonder if they were aware of the crime they committed.
Well, I'm happy with Canada. No capital punishment here.

[icedragon]

Originally Posted by Jimifighter

Been to Singapore a few times, beautiful country and very safe place. Not sure why but they do not have a drug problem there...strangest thing.

They do not have a drug problem??
Drugs and violence exist EVERYWHERE. It's just that most of the time, you cannot see it. It's all underground.

[shimshimhada]

It's so he can hang as an example to those who follow his lifestyle.

[northerncalguy]

The world we live in is fucked. Even in clean, safe Singapore.

[06graphite]

Originally Posted by icedragon

Well, the US isn't that great either.
Some of the criminals the US executes have an IQ level of a child, which makes you wonder if they were aware of the crime they committed.
Well, I'm happy with Canada. No capital punishment here.

Many Canadians have an IQ level of a child, which makes you wonder if they were aware how dumb they are. Well, I'm happy with the US. Few Canadians here.

[ScotyH]

We actually don't have low IQ's. Our brains just don't work well in the cold up here. Ya know, living in igloo's an all.

[MCS]

I worked in Singapore for 5 months. There was a large banner in the airport when going through customs/immigraton warning of any drug user importer and sever punishment. They take their punishment seriously - remember the "caning" incident years ago?

Singapore - very clean, safe, convenient. On the other hand - very boring, sterile, and somewhat uncreative

Give me the US anyday.

Canada - Isn't that our 51 state? Just kidding....

[MCS]

They also pretty much kill everyone dealing heroin in China as well. Opium war history and all that.

Guilty, until proven innocent

[06graphite]

Originally Posted by ScotyH

We actually don't have low IQ's. Our brains just don't work well in the cold up here. Ya know, living in igloo's an all.

[bimmerwannerbie]

Singapore is a very clean and safe country. Damn, you can even get FINE for wasting food you order at the restuarant.

[vladinecko]

Originally Posted by sharp1183

I think capital punishment should be reserved only for murders

some people could argue that drugs are a poison that kills people, drug dealers spread/sell this poison/death, hence they're murderers and deserve capital punishment.

now, if they were hung for dealing pot, that would be just wrong

[BMW0]

Just don't goto Singapore, or even forget it exists if it upsets you that much.

[DriveAllDay]

Hi all

I live in Singapore, and no, I am not an advocate of capital punishment. However, I would like to offer a few reflections to bring things in perspective...

1. One the same day that the Singapore government hung an Australian drug smuggler Nguyen Tuong Van, the US government conducted its 1,000th execution since 1977.

2. Lethal injection is not the only execution method adopted by the US, although it is now adopted by 37 of the 38 States. Hanging was last conducted in the US in Delaware in January 1996. John Albert Taylor was executed by firing squad in Utah on January 26, 1996. The last use of a gas chamber was on March 3, 1999, when Walter LaGrand, a German national, was executed in Arizona.

3. Different people have different notions of what deserves Death. Rightly or wrongly, Singapore considers drug trafficking as one of them. Singapore is natural gateway (being the top entreport trade and container ports in the world) to one of the world's largest drug production centres: Thailand. Singapore, Thailand and Malaysia jointly decided to impose the harshest punishment possible for drug trafficking: death.

4. Every country has drug problems. Singapore has significantly less of them.

5. Singapore welcomes visitors. Just leave illegal drugs out.

6. Can't argue with Singapore being sterile, but thrill seekers may note that prostitution is legal in Singapore. 2 Las Vegas-styled casinos will appear before 2010.

Peace. Now we can get back to our beloved cars...

[deutschmann59]

Originally Posted by DriveAllDay

Hanging was last conducted in the US in Delaware in January 1996....

Thanks for the info! I did not know this. For all I knew, I thought hanging hasn't been done for like 100 years

It's funny how different people perceive the drug problem. Some countries go to extremes like execution, others like the US don't perceive it as being as serious as rape or murder, and other people like my grandparents (no, my family members aren't druggies) think all drugs should be legalized so street crime and gang wars involved with drugs would go away. And they think if they drive under the influence of drugs, it would be the same as alcohol...you know you lose your license, ect.

In a way, I guess I can see where they're coming from, but if I really think about it, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[DriveAllDay]

Sharp1183

You are welcome.

I think the US has long considered the war on drugs lost.

Singapore and Holland are two extremes in their approaches to drug problems. Singapore took a draconian approach, Halland legalised drugs. Both countries succeeded in having very low drug-related crimes and social ills.

Not an expert on drug related issues. I know enough to be dangerous, but not enough to be useful. So shall shut up now before I say something silly...

:-)

[saalim]

Saudi Arabia chops ppl's head off [in fuckin public] for dealing drugs!!! And I am not just talking about heroin and cocaine, but also possession of small amounts of pot!!!

If you are caught stealing, they chop your hands off!!!!......in fuckin public!!!!......and a lotta people come to watch this stuff.

And if you are caught by the secret police having an affair.......they CHOP YOUR DICK OFF!!!......no....I was joking about the dick chopping......the punishment for that is that you get stoned [in the literal sense] to death.

Who cares if there is 0% crime in Saudi Arabia. I like to keep my head, hands and only like to get stoned on weekends.

[shimshimhada]

Originally Posted by saalim

Saudi Arabia chops ppl's head off [in fuckin public] for dealing drugs!!! And I am not just talking about heroin and cocaine, but also possession of small amounts of pot!!!

If you are caught stealing, they chop your hands off!!!!......in fuckin public!!!!......and a lotta people come to watch this stuff.

And if you are caught by the secret police having an affair.......they CHOP YOUR DICK OFF!!!......no....I was joking about the dick chopping......the punishment for that is that you get stoned [in the literal sense] to death.

Who cares if there is 0% crime in Saudi Arabia. I like to keep my head, hands and only like to get stoned on weekends.

That's excellent.

[MCS]

Hey - I did say Singapore was sterile, but I sure did have fun.

Spent many a happy hour at Boat Quay, Brix, Orchard Road, and bars that I've since forgotten the name of.

Also the food was unbelievable. Great food and cheap!

Lastly - Picked up a nice Rolex at a certified Rolex dealership (Hour Glass) for about 2/3 the price of the best price in NYC for my Father in Law's 60th Birthday. great shopping in Singapore, esp with the (then) exchange rate.

My clients were Canadian and Australian and they set my expectations early, "We're going out for drinks every Wed, Thurs, and Friday.

Fond memories of Singapore...

[JamieA]

He was an Australian National, and he was attempting to smuggle about 400g into Australia.

They made a beat up claim that this would equate to 20,000 hits on the street (very unlikely) and would kill many people, he therefore deserved the punishment.

The thing is that Singapore is not a democracy, and he was not put through due process with a Judge and Jury. His fate was decided by representatives of the Singaport government and he was not allowed a legal process in the sense as it is thought of in the Western world.

They did not even allow his mother to hug him before his execution. There was protest and their revised position was to allow her to hold his hand briefly. So they didn't punish him, they punished his family as well. After his execution, they took his body and paraded it for the media.

This whole process seems inhumane to me.

So when it is said that other countries have the death penalty, remember that countries like the US have a more impartial process with many rights of appeal and safeguards. They have a proper legal system. There is more dignity as bodies aren't paraded and presumably a mother would be allowed to hold her condemned son.

[DriveAllDay]

I shall not cause this thread to go into emotional overdrive.

Based on what I have read, the Australian press and the Singaporean press differ greatly in their reporting of what actually happened, and what legal due process was conducted. One claimed that a democratic due process was absent, the other maintained that it was properly followed. Each side has every incentive to prove the other wrong. The Singapore press would quite disagree with the accusations you made re: inhumane treatment, no judicial process, and parading of the corpse. Where's the truth in this? I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between.

Hatred, grief, and ultimatedly hostility happens when we start maintaining our monopoly to truth. A sincere desire to understand another person's point of view is a first step towards peace.

May peace and joy be with us all.