[shah269]

I have seen this topic come up over and over again on various web pages.
This is the best explanation I have seen and I hope you find it as informative as I have.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...rned-nice-guys


Some women tell me they are not attracted to men who directly state a desire to get to know and date them. Instead, they are attracted to distant and noncommittal personalities and say they relish the challenge and the thrill of the romantic chase that these men present. They may see a man who openly expresses an interest in them as soft and not sufficiently masculine. One-on-one conversations with a man interested in the whole woman feels awkward and strange to them.<<<KEY!

For women with this attitude the most comfortable way to romantically connect is by hooking up at parties and bars with men they don’t know very well or don’t know at all. The random hook up is an exciting roll of the dice and it can be validating if only on a physical level. However, once the sexual event is over and the man unceremoniously exits these women may be left feeling emotionally depleted. Typically, they self-criticize for failing to achieve a more meaningful connection with the man. They are tormented by concerns that they said something the man did not like or did something that he found undesirable. And yet, they soon find themselves repeating a self-defeating cycle

>>>>For women who struggle with low self-esteem, nice guys do not match their neuronal wiring for a negative self-image. <<<<

As a result, it may feel odd, uncomfortable and even burdensome to become romantic with men who directly and positively take an interest in them. Instead women who struggle with low self-worth continually pick men who re-confirm their view of themselves as being not good enough. Their learned dating pattern screens out those men who see them more positively than they see themselves.

Instead of self-criticism these women gain insight when they learn to question their dating strategy. By and large, connecting with strangers in random hook ups does not provide women with what brings core contentment-- feeling cared for and deeply known. Women who feel there is some emotional intimacy present between them and their romantic partners report having a more fulfilling sexual and emotional life. Choices that are more in line with a woman’s longer term interests are made when she learns to recognize this. Emotional intimacy with a partner does not require a commitment to engagement and marriage. Emotional intimacy does mean that the man takes an interest in getting to know the woman, actively listens as she speaks and is interested in doing things that are not sexually driven or alcohol fueled.

For many women this is axiomatic, but for some it is a lesson that must be learned.How does a woman determine if there is sufficient emotional intimacy present to reasonably expect a fulfilling sexual experience without morning-after regrets and self recriminations? It takes time to assess romantic prospects, which means a woman needs to learn to resist impulse and the desire to feel immediate self-validation. It takes time to determine if a man is able to speak openly about himself and if he has the capacity to listen and ask questions. A woman must be honest with herself. For those in the habit of hooking up with men and later regretting the outcome, keep this awareness top of mind to help delay sex until you feel known at least on some level. Agree to outings with men who see you in a positive light and who want to be with you in more ways than sexual. Little by little you will change your brain’s pattern of behavior and you will become comfortable being yourself around men who treat you well.

The more you accept as healthy your need for closeness and emotionally intimacy, the more you will screen out those men who are incapable or not emotionally prepared to provide it.

I know this is a serious article but...well....to sum it up....dicks get the hot chicks because the hot chick thinks she is worthless...and nice guys end up with the fatties because for some odd reason the fatties thing highly of themselves?

Aint' the world a fucked up place?

[KingOfJericho]

Ugly girls like nice guys because they've been treated like shit by everyone for their whole lives so it feels good to them to be treated nicely. Hot girls have been treated super well by everyone their entire lives so it's intriguing to them if a guy isn't treating them like a goddess and offers a challenge.

[shah269]

Please not that when we study systems we study the averages not the outliers.
Furthermore note that people are always self evaluating and altering their internal views of themselves. Day to day we change and evolve.

Study the averages and be amazed by the outliers.

I’m an engineer with an EMBA and just a few classes shy of another BS in Psychology and Sociology. I find this very interesting and as I find such articles that help us better understand our world I will post them.

>>>>>And I’m glad a good guy did well! Proof that not all nice guys finish last! <<<<<

[KingOfJericho]

Don't forget who we're dealing with here.

[Benstuck]

Originally Posted by shah269

I have seen this topic come up over and over again on various web pages.
This is the best explanation I have seen and I hope you find it as informative as I have.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...rned-nice-guys


Some women tell me they are not attracted to men who directly state a desire to get to know and date them. Instead, they are attracted to distant and noncommittal personalities and say they relish the challenge and the thrill of the romantic chase that these men present. They may see a man who openly expresses an interest in them as soft and not sufficiently masculine. One-on-one conversations with a man interested in the whole woman feels awkward and strange to them.&lt;&lt;&lt;KEY!

For women with this attitude the most comfortable way to romantically connect is by hooking up at parties and bars with men they dont know very well or dont know at all. The random hook up is an exciting roll of the dice and it can be validating if only on a physical level. However, once the sexual event is over and the man unceremoniously exits these women may be left feeling emotionally depleted. Typically, they self-criticize for failing to achieve a more meaningful connection with the man. They are tormented by concerns that they said something the man did not like or did something that he found undesirable. And yet, they soon find themselves repeating a self-defeating cycle

>>>>For women who struggle with low self-esteem, nice guys do not match their neuronal wiring for a negative self-image. &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

As a result, it may feel odd, uncomfortable and even burdensome to become romantic with men who directly and positively take an interest in them. Instead women who struggle with low self-worth continually pick men who re-confirm their view of themselves as being not good enough. Their learned dating pattern screens out those men who see them more positively than they see themselves.

Instead of self-criticism these women gain insight when they learn to question their dating strategy. By and large, connecting with strangers in random hook ups does not provide women with what brings core contentment-- feeling cared for and deeply known. Women who feel there is some emotional intimacy present between them and their romantic partners report having a more fulfilling sexual and emotional life. Choices that are more in line with a womans longer term interests are made when she learns to recognize this. Emotional intimacy with a partner does not require a commitment to engagement and marriage. Emotional intimacy does mean that the man takes an interest in getting to know the woman, actively listens as she speaks and is interested in doing things that are not sexually driven or alcohol fueled.

For many women this is axiomatic, but for some it is a lesson that must be learned.How does a woman determine if there is sufficient emotional intimacy present to reasonably expect a fulfilling sexual experience without morning-after regrets and self recriminations? It takes time to assess romantic prospects, which means a woman needs to learn to resist impulse and the desire to feel immediate self-validation. It takes time to determine if a man is able to speak openly about himself and if he has the capacity to listen and ask questions. A woman must be honest with herself. For those in the habit of hooking up with men and later regretting the outcome, keep this awareness top of mind to help delay sex until you feel known at least on some level. Agree to outings with men who see you in a positive light and who want to be with you in more ways than sexual. Little by little you will change your brains pattern of behavior and you will become comfortable being yourself around men who treat you well.

The more you accept as healthy your need for closeness and emotionally intimacy, the more you will screen out those men who are incapable or not emotionally prepared to provide it.

I know this is a serious article but...well....to sum it up....dicks get the hot chicks because the hot chick thinks she is worthless...and nice guys end up with the fatties because for some odd reason the fatties thing highly of themselves?

Aint' the world a fucked up place?

I'mma play the sexist card and say this is why we are the superior species

[KingOfJericho]

I am also a nice guy who married well and in the end, that's really how it works. At the same time, you have to be interesting to a woman. Fawning over a woman is often a turn-off so being too nice is also an invitation for disappointment.

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

You need to switch up your reading material and get out more. But whatever helps you deal with your situation...

You are over thinking this big time. I'm a nice guy, never had any problems getting laid, UNTIL I married a hottie.

I was going to post something similar, I had to fine tune your post a bit.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Ugly girls like nice guys because they've been treated like shit by everyone for their whole lives so it feels good to them to be treated nicely. Hot girls have been treated super well by everyone their entire lives so it's intriguing to them if a guy isn't treating them like a goddess and offers a challenge.

I sort of agree with this (I'm not a teenager btw).

When I was younger, I never got very far being nice to "hot superficial" women. They get treated like that all the time. Opening doors for them, paying for expensive dinners, buying them gifts, all normal things they take for granted. Women who are used to that treatment will barely give you the time of day if you act just like every other horny desperate guy.

I ONLY made some headway by finally treating them nice, but also "not caring". I didn't act like a douche, just not desperate. One girl I tried this with was spectacularly hot. She competed in Miss Hawaii, and had the best straight black hair I ever saw in my life. I knew I wanted her the second I saw her at Church.

Thing is, she had guys following her around, pulling out chairs for her to sit, and offering to give her rides everywhere, offering to walk her to her car, etc. Me, I never fawned over her, but would sometimes have nice conversations where I'd make her laugh. Gradually I noticed she would come up to me and try to talk, and that's when I knew what I was doing was working. She gave me her e-mail and number (and this was before the dawn of Gmail mind you, so giving away your e-mail was pretty big). At first it was a few e-mails per week (some of which I didn't respond to), which turned into a few calls (I didn't pick up every time). Soon enough I was getting messages on my machine where she was wondering where I was, and why I didn't want to spend more time with her.

It works guys. The desperate act is BS, and it doesn't work. Nice guys do win, but don't be fake nice is my point. Be nice like you would to any other person, but when it comes down to it, women will not appreciate a guy who is just there at their whim and call. Think about it, do you find it hotter if a woman just seems available anytime you want, when you want, or if you have to work to get her attention? It's human nature, there is intrique in "The Chase".

p.s - Also it helps if you lose some weight, exercise once in a while, and get a good hair cut. Not dressing like a dirty hobo also adds points. Again, not required, but makes things easier.

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

Having seen a photo of the OP makes this statement so f@ckign awesome. Thank you.

I didn't know who even posted this thread until you mentioned it.

Gotta give credit to shah for taking it so hard from this forum, but I think there is something to be said about putting too much personal info online.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

These a superficial views from teenagers and boys in their early 20's.

I disagree - it works quite well. Don't make a fuss over a hottie and you will get what you want.

I had just come out of a long relationship and was fixed up on a blind date the very next day by my cousin. I wanted NOTHING to do with dating but I went anyway. I honestly wasn't looking for anything and just went to shut up my cousin who wouldn't stop telling me about this girl he knew. We went on the date and it went fine. We had enough to talk about and I thought she was very good looking but didn't think much of it because I had ruled out this girl based on the timing alone. I didn't call her the next day. Fast forward a few days and she calls me asking why I haven't called her. We went out the next weekend for a second date and it went well again. By date three we really hit it off and were essentially inseparable from then on. That was January 2007. We got married in 2011 and are now expecting our first child.

Bottom line is that you're best bet is not to try so hard because the right person will likely come out of left field when you least expect it.

[Colt]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

=
Bottom line is that you're best bet is not to try so hard because the right person will likely come out of left field when you least expect it.

[SwnSng]

Stop being so self absorbed and over thinking the situation. This is tried and true way of getting the "girl" you want:

1. Find hot girl
2. Pursue hot girl
3. If you strike out go back to step 1
4. Score

That's all you need to know, all the single guys i've known throughout the years who have Girl trouble are the ones that

1. Think they are the nice guy (bullshit)
2. Obsess way to much on why they have it harder than other guys (bullshit)

When it comes down to it...guys pursue, girls get pursued. Every relationship that i've had where the girl has pursued me has ended horribly.

[reeltime]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Ugly girls like nice guys because they've been treated like shit by everyone for their whole lives so it feels good to them to be treated nicely. Hot girls have been treated super well by everyone their entire lives so it's intriguing to them if a guy isn't treating them like a goddess and offers a challenge.

+1.

Hot girls know every guy wants them.. So they only give attention to the guys who treat them like shit

[Crimson92]

Oh FFS, not shah again.

[Ashley Schaeffer BMW]

Rule #1. Dont be ugly

Also nice guys are boring to chicks after a few weeks.

[Nate4641]

Just click on one of those ads for the "one weird trick" to get girls. Human nature is hard to understand. We get it, there are fat people around, you dont like fat people, you have trouble with women, there are fat people in other countries, you have a dyson, its all the same shit.

Be a little bit of a dick to a girl and she'll be into you, its that easy. Not all girls are going to be into an engineer of whatever you do, it happens, girls are selective. Deal.

[grimlock]

Shah is .. Love Guru

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

I ONLY made some headway by finally treating them nice, but also "not caring".

p.s - Also it helps if you lose some weight, exercise once in a while, and get a good hair cut. Not dressing like a dirty hobo also adds points. Again, not required, but makes things easier.

So true. They can smell it if you care in 2 seconds.. so don't care and they will be looking at you, not the other way around.

Best, dress like a hobo, but make sure they see the car (or some other indicator you are not truly a hobo ) and the double whammy will have them taking their panties off before you get in the car

FTW

[Templar]

Just because you have a sexy vacuum cleaner doesn't mean a girl will like you more. Just FYI.

[SwnSng]

treating girls like shit...will get you nowhere. If when you say treating a girl like shit equates to you not being a complete pushover and borderline stalker...then yeah.

Ladies who have a little more self esteem will laugh in your face if you "treat them like shit"

[KingOfJericho]

"Look girls, I can clean too!"

The whole thing just screams desperation...

[shah269]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/experts/jill-p-weber-phd
Wow very smart woman;
Jill P.Weber , Ph.D. is the author of Having Sex, Wanting Intimacy—Why Women Settle for One-Sided Relationships. She specializes in the impact of culture on female identity and relationship development. She is a clinical psychologist in private practice in the Washington, D.C. area. She holds a Ph.D. in psychology from American University. She has appeared as a psychology expert in various media outlets, including Nightline, Teen Vogue, Redbook, Family Circle, Seventeen, CNN, Associated Press, U.S. News and World Report and Discovery Channel.

I only would have a BS she has a PhD so I would assume she knows what she is talking about and I would tend to agree based on her bio.

After all we want to what is happening outside to be par with what we feel inside.
I wouldn't saw this is 100% for all the women who have ever turned down every man but maybe there is something to it?

[shah269]

well...i saw the article thought it was well written so i shared.....sorry didn't mean to enlighten you. Feel free to go back to your angry birds.