[tranquility]

Merc has the SLS, Audi has the R8. What gives, BMW?

[lonestar22]

someone hasnt been paying very much attention

[SCOTT26]

If you are talking about an R8 , SLS Rival?

Not for a few years. BMW M know what they would like to do but in order to achieve it they have to let the CFRP production for the i3 and i8 achieve volume production so it becomes cost-effective and mass produced to bring out a more competitive , lighter concept at a competitve price ahead of the competition. Right now there is no business case because of the cost of materials at the current time.

BMW's significant investment in CFRP manufacturers when others were creating or raiding parts-bins for their "vanity" projects will be very beneficial in the next few years and the first benefactors will be BMW M.
One will be weight reduction and the other will be cost.

In the meantime i8 will be the headlining car of tomorrow, it is as they say the most progressive Sports car. It is not a sports car electrified like the SLS and R8. It is something entirely created from the ground up and that will be it's greatest advantage. An uncompromising view of the future, today.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by lonestar22

someone hasnt been paying very much attention

Ya, I have. It doesn't have the performance or wow-factor of a true Halo car though. It's more of a technological advance.

[manuelf]

Originally Posted by tranquility

Ya, I have. It doesn't have the performance or wow-factor of a true Halo car though. It's more of a technological advance.

Oh really? For me it has the wow-factor! Much more than that super boring R8, which has almost no wow-factor to me.... every Gallardo has three times the wow-factor than a R8.... so it is personal liking....

[IMG]

Originally Posted by lonestar22

someone hasnt been paying very much attention

It has the price tag of a supercar but peformance that wont even touch a current m3...theres nothing super about that car.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by img

It has the price tag of a supercar but peformance that wont even touch a current m3...theres nothing super about that car.

+1

Exactly. Also, I know it's personal taste, but that car looks too funky and really isn't a looker. BMW is trying too hard to look futuristic w/ that vehicle.

[IMG]

Originally Posted by tranquility

+1

Exactly. Also, I know it's personal taste, but that car looks too funky and really isn't a looker. BMW is trying too hard to look futuristic w/ that vehicle.

Agreed. Its quite hideous looking.

Now the Porsche 918 Spyder is not only pushing technology in a way BMW wont for probably a decade (CF monocoque chasis, hybrid tech, kers, etc), its also ahead of Ferrari and Lambo in these ways, and its such a beautiful example of perfection in design and automotive engineering brilliance that is going to have insane performance. It belongs in a museum!

[snipe]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

BMW's significant investment in CFRP manufacturers when others were creating or raiding parts-bins for their "vanity" projects will be very beneficial in the next few years and the first benefactors will be BMW M.

What's wrong with parts-bins? I love the 1 M, but why don't you like it?

[Q4P]

I8 has to be the one of the ugliest / weirdest looking cars on the planet and it's a car built with the purpose of being Eco friendly; supercars/halo cars were never meant to be that.

As far as parts costs; since when does a manufacturer look at profits / costs in developing a super car? I think they know from the beginning that the car won't sell well and will be a niche crowd car. The Veyron sure as anything doesn't bring in much of a profit according to Clarkson and other publications.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by manuelf

Oh really? For me it has the wow-factor! Much more than that super boring R8, which has almost no wow-factor to me.... every Gallardo has three times the wow-factor than a R8.... so it is personal liking....

If an R8 V10 doesn't have the wow factor for you then maybe you just haven't been up close to one nor driven one. That car is superb; the engine and tranny are out of the Gallardo and the sound / build quality is stunning.

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by img

Now the Porsche 918 Spyder is not only pushing technology in a way BMW wont for probably a decade (CF monocoque chasis, hybrid tech, kers, etc), its also ahead of Ferrari and Lambo in these ways, and its such a beautiful example of perfection in design and automotive engineering brilliance that is going to have insane performance. It belongs in a museum!

This.

The 918 proves that performance and environmental responsibility can work together....although it is price prohibitive to be successful on a large scale at this point....the future will change even that too.

[PINeely]

Do they really need one right now? Truth is that if I had 180k to spend on a car ala SLS and V10 R8, I probably wouldn't be looking at Mercs, Audis or BMWs.

In fact, I think they have handled this nicely. Their "halo" car is an exercise in technology instead of just BMW's take on a formula that we've seen a hundred times already. The Porsche 918 takes a similar approach.

[tranquility]

Originally Posted by img

Agreed. Its quite hideous looking.

Now the Porsche 918 Spyder is not only pushing technology in a way BMW wont for probably a decade (CF monocoque chasis, hybrid tech, kers, etc), its also ahead of Ferrari and Lambo in these ways, and its such a beautiful example of perfection in design and automotive engineering brilliance that is going to have insane performance. It belongs in a museum!

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I8 has to be the one of the ugliest / weirdest looking cars on the planet and it's a car built with the purpose of being Eco friendly; supercars/halo cars were never meant to be that.

As far as parts costs; since when does a manufacturer look at profits / costs in developing a super car? I think they know from the beginning that the car won't sell well and will be a niche crowd car. The Veyron sure as anything doesn't bring in much of a profit according to Clarkson and other publications.

I agree w/ all these points.

Originally Posted by PINeely

Do they really need one right now? Truth is that if I had 180k to spend on a car ala SLS and V10 R8, I probably wouldn't be looking at Mercs, Audis or BMWs.

In fact, I think they have handled this nicely. Their "halo" car is an exercise in technology instead of just BMW's take on a formula that we've seen a hundred times already. The Porsche 918 takes a similar approach.

I dunno, I guess it's a different approach but BMW's prestige is at least on the same level as MB and Audi and I was hoping that they would have a supercar to show their 'stuff'. The i8 doesn't really do it imho.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

If an R8 V10 doesn't have the wow factor for you then maybe you just haven't been up close to one nor driven one. That car is superb; the engine and tranny are out of the Gallardo and the sound / build quality is stunning.

R8
AWD= boring
Design= boring
V8= boring
V10=more exciting
overall R8=boring

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by img

Agreed. Its quite hideous looking.

Now the Porsche 918 Spyder is not only pushing technology in a way BMW wont for probably a decade (CF monocoque chasis, hybrid tech, kers, etc), its also ahead of Ferrari and Lambo in these ways, and its such a beautiful example of perfection in design and automotive engineering brilliance that is going to have insane performance. It belongs in a museum!

its not a perfection of design its a Carerra GT with higher wheel arches

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

R8
AWD= boring
Design= boring
V8= boring
V10=more exciting
overall R8=boring

So if I understand correctly your logic... then the Audi R8 / S4, 911 Turbo and Turbo S, Nissan GTR, Mitsu EVO, WRX STI, and all Lamborghinis currently produced are boring because they are AWD, right?

Educate yourself; an AWD car can be more than fun with the proper power output; here is some AWD fun for you -

If that's not enough fun; then maybe you need to learn how to drive.

The R8 V10 was the one mentioned by me as Audi realized the V8 was a mistake and no longer produces the car and the design is very subjective but I think its magnificent. The lines flow amazingly...

So in other words = Audi R8 V10 = 3 x Win

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

So if I understand correctly your logic... then the Audi R8 / S4, 911 Turbo and Turbo S, Nissan GTR, Mitsu EVO, WRX STI, and all Lamborghinis currently produced are boring because they are AWD, right?

Educate yourself; an AWD car can be more than fun with the proper power output; here is some AWD fun for you -

If that's not enough fun; then maybe you need to learn how to drive.

The R8 V10 was the one mentioned by me as Audi realized the V8 was a mistake and no longer produces the car and the design is very subjective but I think its magnificent. The lines flow amazingly...

So in other words = Audi R8 V10 = 3 x Win

S4= boring
911 Turbo= GT2 is better in every way, so yes its boring
GTR= is ok
Evo= rice and boring
WRX= even more rice, still boring
Lamborghini= Lamborghini died after the Diablo, actually Lamborghini has made two limited edition RWD models since the Diablo. Those aren't boring.

So yes, everything except for the GTR I find boring. The only advantage AWD has is on snow and offroad. Other than that its all UNDERSTEER!!
If you like AWD so much why do you not have an Audi?
And any car will spin if you use a hand brake.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

S4= boring
911 Turbo= GT2 is better in every way, so yes its boring
GTR= is ok
Evo= rice and boring
WRX= even more rice, still boring
Lamborghini= Lamborghini died after the Diablo

So yes, everything except for the GTR I find boring. The only advantage AWD has is on snow and offroad. Other than that its all UNDERSTEER!!
If you like AWD so much why do you not have an Audi?
And any car will spin if you use a hand brake.

I didn't say I like AWD; I just said that it is far from boring...

I am going to guess High School or somewhere very close here.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I didn't say I like AWD; I just said that it is far from boring...

I am going to guess High School or somewhere very close here.

ok? cool story

[IMG]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

its not a perfection of design its a Carerra GT with higher wheel arches

The carrera gt was perfection in design, but the 918 spider is more so, however, you couldn't be any further from reality or fact with that statement. It IS the closest thing to perfection since the carrera GT...that is about all they share. The 918 is pure automotive engineering at it's best...a pinnacle of performance yet is efficient at the same time. Again...light years ahead of anything else on the horizon in both interior and exterior design and is going to be one of the top performance cars available...and ever made.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by img

The carrera gt was perfection in design, but the 918 spider is more so, however, you couldn't be any further from reality or fact with that statement. It IS the closest thing to perfection since the carrera GT...that is about all they share. The 918 is pure automotive engineering at it's best...a pinnacle of performance yet is efficient at the same time. Again...light years ahead of anything else on the horizon in both interior and exterior design and is going to be one of the top performance cars available...and ever made.

Personally I dont like the styling of the Carrera GT too much. Its too empty at the back.