[carogers86]

Folks,

I recall a thread made previously about what viewers here did for a living. The majority of those that responded to that thread a are in the IT industry. Currently, I own a business and has next to nothing to do with IT.

A small preface to my eventual question:

On a routine meeting with one of my new clients, I got into a conversation about what she does for a living. She mentioned that she works for an IT consulting company involving a program called EPIC and converting old medical docs to this new system. I told her that I have heard of EPIC and that my business partner used to work in the IT field before joining with my business.

My client (as well as my biz partner) explained that the pay averages around $45-$55/hr and with additional certifications it could easily hit around $100/hr. I asked her how she got through the classes and what college she went to. I acknowledged I had seen those job postings online, but read you need a lot of computer science skills to be considered. My client explained that she never finished college and was hired into the position with no experience in 2008 at a hospital job fair (financial collapse?). I jokingly asked her if she could hook me up with a position as it is part time and by contract. My client said there is a high chance she could hook me up and some of her co workers have hooked up friends/family. She said I could expect to start around $35/hr and might have to travel for a week or so at a time. I think that would be cool.

I told her I have no experience except for two programming classes I took in college, but she said the firm/company would train me and any organized and responsible person could learn the skills of the job. She said, "ignore that it says you need 4-8 years of experience, that is just to weed people out. I haven't met any co worked who has that much experience."

My question:

Does this sound right? I always heard how these IT people are paid great rates per hour as my business parter explained previously. I manage my own business 85% from phone/computer and make my own schedule. I am earning 3-4 times what my "fresh out of college" friends are earning working about 1/3 less hours a week, so I have time to devote to another income proposition. Many would describe me as a workaholic, but I would take any opportunity to generate more income I could use to build up savings, invest more in my business, or contribute to retirement.

Thus far in life, I have learned things that are too good to be true, usually are. There is always a catch. The only "catch" I can see is that you may have to travel for a week or two at a time. I have no kids, this would not be a problem, in fact I would love to do it. Another is that this is a contract position. You may only have one or two months of work, then be out of the job. This is okay for me, I have my own business.

Any thoughts from the IT community?

[kyleb350]

It sounds like nice additional income. My only concern, if I were you, would be is if the IT job demands long or additional hours interfering with your business work. I'm an analyst in IT but not in the health care industry. Regardless, I know there can be long hours involved every once in a while.

[Freakazoid]

if it's too good to be true...it probably is.

The BILLING rate to the consulting company might be $100/hr. But there is no way a person with 3 years of experience is taking home $100/hr in IT while working for someone else. (without sleeping with the boss, etc).
As kyle said above, you're not going to be able to easily split the way you're hoping to.... in order to get the truly 'lucrative' contracts, you're going to have to be able to focus on it entirely for weeks/months. And will take a lot of hours, especially when you're new. Your flexibility will be nice, but you're going to need high flexibility at your current job too. You're going to have to be able to step away from it for weeks (or be able to work 20 hour days for weeks)

[carogers86]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

if it's too good to be true...it probably is.

The BILLING rate to the consulting company might be $100/hr. But there is no way a person with 3 years of experience is taking home $100/hr in IT while working for someone else. (without sleeping with the boss, etc).
As kyle said above, you're not going to be able to easily split the way you're hoping to.... in order to get the truly 'lucrative' contracts, you're going to have to be able to focus on it entirely for weeks/months. And will take a lot of hours, especially when you're new. Your flexibility will be nice, but you're going to need high flexibility at your current job too. You're going to have to be able to step away from it for weeks (or be able to work 20 hour days for weeks)

My client doesn't make $100/hr. She makes $55/hr right now. She hopes to get sponsored by a hospital and get certified to make $100+

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by carogers86

My client doesn't make $100/hr. She makes $55/hr right now. She hopes to get sponsored by a hospital and get certified to make $100+

I guess that might be my point though, if they're saying 'easily $100/hr', it's not easy....it's really not. You have to have a hell of a background to be asking for that $$$ amount. Even for $35-$55/hr, when you're a consultant it can be a very demanding job. You'll get calls at all hours, and again for the lucrative contracts you're going to have to be VERY flexible with your schedule.

She MAY be taking home $55/hr, it's certainly possible. But I'd be betting that she's fronting the plane fare and/or hotel bills. That little experience, I have a lot of trouble believing that she's making $55/hr with all other costs paid for.

Let me simplify it like this, consulting in general is where the money is in IT. But you have to have backing, you have to have experience, and you have to have flexibility. It's not a field you can just walk into easily...especially with healthcare.

[carogers86]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

I guess that might be my point though, if they're saying 'easily $100/hr', it's not easy....it's really not. You have to have a hell of a background to be asking for that $$$ amount. Even for $35-$55/hr, when you're a consultant it can be a very demanding job. You'll get calls at all hours, and again for the lucrative contracts you're going to have to be VERY flexible with your schedule.

She MAY be taking home $55/hr, it's certainly possible. But I'd be betting that she's fronting the plane fare and/or hotel bills. That little experience, I have a lot of trouble believing that she's making $55/hr with all other costs paid for.

Let me simplify it like this, consulting in general is where the money is in IT. But you have to have backing, you have to have experience, and you have to have flexibility. It's not a field you can just walk into easily...especially with healthcare.

I see, I see. How would one gain experience in this field? I mentioned that I have only taken 2 classes (algorithm design and data structures) and nearly forgotten it all. Do you have a suggestion on "junior" level jobs?

Also, she did tell me everything is paid for. In fact she is being flown out to New York today for a week. Last month she was in Alaska. She did mention 15 hour work days. She is a single mom and said she will work like crazy for 2-3 weeks then take 3 weeks off to be with her son because she made enough money not to work.

[FStop7]

Also, is this W2 or 1099? Makes a BIG difference.

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by carogers86

I see, I see. How would one gain experience in this field? I mentioned that I have only taken 2 classes (algorithm design and data structures) and nearly forgotten it all. Do you have a suggestion on "junior" level jobs?

Also, she did tell me everything is paid for. In fact she is being flown out to New York today for a week. Last month she was in Alaska. She did mention 15 hour work days. She is a single mom and said she will work like crazy for 2-3 weeks then take 3 weeks off to be with her son because she made enough money not to work.

I'm assuming you're doing something related to healthcare now (I don't think I saw your actual industry anywhere). Having business experience will be huge.
If you DO, then you'll need to learn the product, do some google searches, see what you can dig out. The reason why IT people make money is because they're constantly working and keeping up on their skillset. People aren't going to pay you weeks of work to learn a mainstream product.
If you DON'T, then start networking, you'll need the networking/business experience as your foundation. Then learn the product.

And if she's doing work like that, I could see her making 45-55/hr. As that's what consultants do (again going back to demanding). When a company hires a consultant, they want the job done QUICKLY. They want/need a consultant to work 15 hour days, and to get the job done. This is where you might have problems.

[solefald]

I just went through the hiring process at VA hospital, just to quit after a couple of month because the job was a steaming pile of shit.

The numbers you are citing sound like science fiction. With my 15 years of sysadmin experience the offer was $25/hr and not a penny more. The only reason I accepted was because this was a side job to support a research lab within VA system, because VA's own sysadmins would not touch a Linux box with a 6 foot pole and because my friend's wife runs that lab.

Hiring process took a little over 8 months. Yep. 8 months and piles and piles of paperwork, fingerprints, TB tests, chest x-rays, more paperwork, background checks, more background checks and other nonsense... all of that for a job where I would have to work 2-3 hours per week. After I got hired, I had to take weekly compliance tests, attend required seminars and fill up more paperwork.

There is no way in hell I would even consider working for another hospital.

[JayKay335i]

Last I checked was entry level in that type of work involved Entering the persons name and then scanning the rest of their medical records and attaching it to the digital file.

[carogers86]

Originally Posted by FStop7

Also, is this W2 or 1099? Makes a BIG difference.

it says w2/CON which I believe means contract.

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by carogers86

it says w2/CON which I believe means contract.

fyi there is absolutely NO way she's capable of making $100/hr as w2.

[carogers86]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

fyi there is absolutely NO way she's capable of making $100/hr as w2.

I have no idea. She just said she is trying to get "sponsored" by a hospital where she can double her wage by becoming certified in something (I can't remember what she said). She currently makes $45/$55hr per hour.

[carogers86]

Originally Posted by solefald

I just went through the hiring process at VA hospital, just to quit after a couple of month because the job was a steaming pile of shit.

The numbers you are citing sound like science fiction. With my 15 years of sysadmin experience the offer was $25/hr and not a penny more. The only reason I accepted was because this was a side job to support a research lab within VA system, because VA's own sysadmins would not touch a Linux box with a 6 foot pole and because my friend's wife runs that lab.

Hiring process took a little over 8 months. Yep. 8 months and piles and piles of paperwork, fingerprints, TB tests, chest x-rays, more paperwork, background checks, more background checks and other nonsense... all of that for a job where I would have to work 2-3 hours per week. After I got hired, I had to take weekly compliance tests, attend required seminars and fill up more paperwork.

There is no way in hell I would even consider working for another hospital.

$25 is what she started at 3 years ago. That sounds like a horrible experience nonetheless. Especially for $25/hr

[carogers86]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

I'm assuming you're doing something related to healthcare now (I don't think I saw your actual industry anywhere). Having business experience will be huge.
If you DO, then you'll need to learn the product, do some google searches, see what you can dig out. The reason why IT people make money is because they're constantly working and keeping up on their skillset. People aren't going to pay you weeks of work to learn a mainstream product.
If you DON'T, then start networking, you'll need the networking/business experience as your foundation. Then learn the product.

And if she's doing work like that, I could see her making 45-55/hr. As that's what consultants do (again going back to demanding). When a company hires a consultant, they want the job done QUICKLY. They want/need a consultant to work 15 hour days, and to get the job done. This is where you might have problems.

I have been googling and going to a tech job specific website to research as much as possible. She said she will give me some "modulus" books to thumb through to get an idea of what the hokey pokey is.

[carogers86]

Freakazoid: are you in healthcare IT? I have business management experience with my own business (talking/meeting with clients/deadlines/invoices/payroll/data tracking and management, etc)

[ideliver]

You will be training physicians on how to use epic. It is an entry level job. If you are motivated and spend your 10,000 hours mastering the process, you may have a future

[Bobble]

I've been an IT consultant for many years, 16 self employed, worked for AA for 3.5 and around 10 as an employee of a couple of companies. My current billing rate is $65/hour local or telecom with all that experience but what I do is ERP systems development/modifications/support for some of the more deadend generic ERP systems. I am lucky to get that rate let alone jobs in the current market. Specific centered skills will get you more but believe me software and skill sets change like the wind. What's hot today sucks tomorrow. At the height of my career I got 100-125/hr but had to travel for work. The current market is saturated with people willing to sell themselves cheap for any work at all. My gut feeling is no way will that job pan out to the rates quoted, Epic is an older company been around a long time. AA had clients that were Hospitals and have heard that name in the 80's when I was there. Bottom line there is money to be made in IT but it's all about having the latest and greatest skill set if you want the big bucks and travelling to where the jobs are. Not to mention on the software side the ever present fear of outsourcing. If I had to do it again, I'd have skipped the software side and done admin integration types gigs and then gone into sales especially with big integrators. Friends that do that make tons of money selling services, don't get the off hour calls for support etc.. IF you value your personal life I'd pass as it will take a few years of doing the dirty work, living on the road and working a lot of long hours to establish yourself. Hell at AA we had to have 40 billable hours per week and that was outside of travel time and what the partner gave away. I literally worked close 65/week for whole time and never ever made any real money but do have my name on a patent that paid me the grand sum of $1 US dollar yippee.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

fyi there is absolutely NO way she's capable of making $100/hr as w2.

Damn skippy on that. That equates to about $250,000 year as an employee. In my hey day working two clients close to 60 hours/week corp to corp I did not see that kind of money.

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by Bobble

Damn skippy on that. That equates to about $250,000 year as an employee. In my hey day working two clients close to 60 hours/week corp to corp I did not see that kind of money.

exactly, me thinks the client is doing what lots of contractors do...grossly inflating their potential and their rates. I know people making $100/hr 1099...but they're also the ones with 15 years of experience and know people. making that *w2* is just not going to happen.

Shit SAP consultants get billed out at $250+/hr and they're only taking home $100 1099 at best

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by carogers86

Freakazoid: are you in healthcare IT? I have business management experience with my own business (talking/meeting with clients/deadlines/invoices/payroll/data tracking and management, etc)

Not in healthcare IT persae, but I have experience in that world (UPMC). I go from general contracting to employee, to whatever, so I work in a bit of everything .

Business management experience will be very good for RUNNING the 'job', but getting the clients, getting the experience, etc will be the hard part.

I'd say you still keep yourself open to the opportunity, don't let me say otherwise...just whatever you do, just make sure you don't PUT any money into all of this. And don't expect too much.
IT consulting is what you put into it, it's the one industry where you can excel purely from hard work and some common sense. But it's a LOT of hardwork.

[FStop7]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

fyi there is absolutely NO way she's capable of making $100/hr as w2.

+8675309

To get $100 per hour W2 you'd need to be doing some VERY specialized stuff, like be some kind of God-tier network/security engineer with a high level security clearance working in Iraq. In other words, extremely rare if at all.