[BTM]

Anyone who watches enough baseball knows these things break like crazy, creating sharp projectiles that are potentially dangerous. However, no one had been struck by the sharp end of one, until the past weekend. Not sure how much national attention this got but Tyler Colvin of the Chicago Cubs is out for the rest of the season with a punctured lung - it apparently missed major arteries by a small margin. For those who don't know, here is a link http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...9259.htmlstory

Does it really take a near tragedy to get anything done, that is, if anything gets done at all? IMO not switching to a wood bat less prone to splintering this off season would be inexcusable, and I've been saying this since maple bats started breaking all over the place a few years ago when introduced. What was wrong with ash?

With the NFL paying so much attention to the concussive properties of it's sport, I really hope MLB takes notice to it's own equipment shortcoming

Article in WSJ from this morning:

http://blogs.wsj.com/dailyfix/2010/0...the-maple-bat/

Not sure if login is required to see so here's the text

Originally Posted by David Roth

It’s a truism that happens to be true – high-level athletics carry with them a high level of risk. Football players, hockey players and baseball players effectively put their lives on the line when they go to work. The same can be said of coal miners, of course, and you don’t need to follow sports to be aware of who’s got it tougher. One thing those groups do have in common, though, is their dependency upon the tools of their trade. If everything doesn’t work as it’s supposed to, people could get hurt. Which brings us to Chicago Cubs outfielder Tyler Colvin, who was struck in the chest by a shard from a teammate’s maple bat on Sunday. The bat punctured Colvin’s lung, and the rookie will miss the rest of the season. The debate over maple bats in Major League Baseball, however, promises to go on well after the season ends.


Associated Press
The Cubs’ Welington Castillo breaks his bat for a double Sunday. The bat ended up impaling teammate Tyler Colvin. Apparently a splinter-induced punctured lung is not enough to change the minds of the pro-maple camp.
Of course, the argument has been going on for some time already, as this prescient January column from Yahoo’s Jeff Passan proves. Maple bats are believed to be more shatter-prone than traditional ash bats. But, for a variety of reasons involving players wanting to shave down their bat handles, bat-industry pressure, wood supply issues and institutional intransigence, maple bats have retained their market share. This has happened despite increasing questions about their safety for players and fans alike.

“Unless baseball acts, it’s only a matter of time before a piece of maple bat kills a player or a fan,” the Boston Globe’s Peter Abraham writes. “All wooden bats can break. … [But] this seems pretty simple: ban maple bats unless there is a way to make them as safe as ash. The alternative is not worth the risk.”

Link also includes a poll, which at this time reads 140 (74.1%) in favor of banning maple bats, with 49 (25.9%) opposing a ban

[cherylrpr]

+1/2

[NYCGarbagePrince]

The original report was that it entered the chest cavity. I had heard nothing about it puncturing his lung. However, it would not surprise me at all. We have seen these bats impale themselves 6-12 inches deep into the turf like a lawn dart.

[BTM]

His lung is certainly punctured:

Originally Posted by MLB.com

The sharp end of Castillo's busted bat hit Colvin under the collarbone. He was hospitalized for pneumothorax, which occurs when a person has air trapped in the space between the outside of the lung and inside of the chest wall. The air enters the space when there is a hole in the surface of the lung, which allows air to leak from the lung and into the space.

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/art...s_chc&c_id=chc

[NYCGarbagePrince]

Originally Posted by BTM

His lung is certainly punctured:

that is absolutely awful. It was only a matter of time. If it wasn't a player it was going to be a fan. It is certainly time for a change.

[BTM]

I believe this is the first instance of a player being hit/injured, but there have been instances involving plate umps

Originally Posted by MLB.com

KANSAS CITY -- Home-plate umpire Brian O'Nora was hit in the head by a broken bat and had to leave Tuesday night's game at Kauffman Stadium.

O'Nora was struck in the forehead by the barrel of Miguel Olivo's bat which snapped as he hit a ground ball in the Kansas City Royals' second inning. Royals athletic trainer Nick Swartz reported that O'Nora suffered a small laceration of the forehead and was taken to St. Luke's Hospital for treatment.

Play was stopped immediately and O'Nora was treated on the steps of the Royals' dugout by team trainers. He left under his own power, aided by the trainers.

Olivo's batted ball was fielded by Colorado Rockies shortstop Troy Tulowitzki, who threw to first base for a routine out. Meantime, Olivo was left with the bat handle and O'Nora was staggered.

"I just feel sorry for him, I feel bad," Olivo said. "I looked back and saw the blood come out and I just felt so bad. I saw [Jose] Guillen going in with the towels and thought, 'Oh, no.'"

Olivo was using a maple bat when the injury occurred. He said he switched to ash bats for the rest of the game.

Olivo, the Royals' designated hitter, went to a room in the stadium while O'Nora was being treated to tell him how sorry he was about the accident.

"It's not my fault, but I see that and my heart is too sensitive," Olivo said.

The game was stopped for 13 minutes while O'Nora was treated, and first-base umpire Paul Nauert put on home-plate protective gear to take over for O'Nora.

Ironically, the injury took place on a day that Major League Baseball's Safety and Health Advisory Committee held a conference call to discuss what to do about injuries caused by broken bats.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

This one resulted in a concussion

Originally Posted by MLB.com

TORONTO -- Blue Jays catcher Rod Barajas was waiting for Kerwin Danley to get back up, but the home-plate umpire remained on the ground, motionless after being struck on the side of the head by a bat on Tuesday night at Rogers Centre.

It was a scary moment that quickly quieted the ballpark during the top of the sixth inning in Texas' 5-4 victory over Toronto. With one out, Rangers designated hitter Hank Blalock offered at the first pitch he received from pitcher Roy Halladay, shattering his bat on contact and sending a large piece of the barrel flying over a crouched Barajas.

The splintered piece of wood struck Danley on the right side of his helmet, causing the veteran ump to collapse behind home plate.

"It didn't sound good. It was a pretty loud thump," Barajas said. "I was just hoping he'd get right back up and kind of shake it off, but his eyes were closed. He wasn't making any movements and he wasn't talking. That's a bad sign."

During a 10-minute delay, Toronto's medical staff and coaches from both clubs hustled onto the field to tend to Danley. A neck brace was carefully placed around the umpire's head, and he was placed on a stretcher and taken off the field on a medical cart. Danley was then transported to Mount Sinai Hospital and diagnosed with a mild concussion.

Before being removed from the field, Danley could be seen talking to those around him. The umpire never lost consciousness after being hit by the bat, and crew chief Dana DeMuth said Danley's first responses were encouraging.

"He was in a lot of head pain and didn't want to talk," DeMuth said. "But he knew where he was and he said he had feeling in everything."

It marked the second time in two seasons that Danley suffered a head injury behind the plate.

On April 26 of last season, Danley was struck in the jaw by a 96-mph fastball from pitcher Brad Penny during a game between the Dodgers and Rockies. The 47-year-old Danley -- a veteran of 12 seasons as a big league ump -- was carried away in an ambulance after that incident, but he made a swift recovery, returning to umpiring duties in early June.

Following that injury, Danley began wearing a more protective helmet, one similar to those worn by hockey goalies and many Major League catchers. DeMuth said Danley's latest head injury might have been much worse without that particular helmet.

"He wasn't cut or anything," DeMuth said. "The bat got all helmet and that's a good helmet to have for it, because a lot of us don't wear stuff where the protection is [on the side and back of the head] and I believe that's where it hit him.

"That's why he has the helmet he has. That gives him the extra protection. That's a very good helmet to have -- it's just very uncomfortable. But when you got a delicate head and you've had head injuries before, it's one of the best things to have."

Danley showed positive signs before being taken to the hospital, but that didn't make it any less unnerving for the coaches and players standing close by.

Blue Jays second baseman Aaron Hill, who missed the final four months of last season due to post-concussion syndrome, said it was hard to regain focus immediately after Danley went down.

"You hate to see that happen, especially something to the head," Hill said. "There's been so many things happen to some umpires the past couple years -- broken spine, concussions, all this stuff -- that luckily they've come back from. Hopefully, he doesn't have to deal with anything too severe."

Over the past few years, there has been growing concern about the use of maple bats, which have seemed to shatter more often and easier than other types of wood. The bat used by Blalock against the Blue Jays was made of ash, avoiding any more fuel to that controversy.

DeMuth said maple bats, and whether they are a realistic problem, are not a main cause of worry among umpires.

"We can't be concerned about that," DeMuth said. "You don't even think about that stuff as an umpire when you're back there. Otherwise, you'd be doing all sorts of motions and ducking and all that. That's the last thing you think about, broken bats."

DeMuth said that he and the rest of the crew, including umpires Hunter Wendelstedt and Doug Eddings, planned on heading to the hospital to check on Danley late Tuesday night. Blalock planned on staying at the stadium until he was able to get in contact with Danley.

"I felt really bad," Blalock said. "I heard he was OK -- it's a mild concussion. So, I'm kind of hanging out to make sure I can get a hold of him to apologize and make sure he's OK."

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

[kyleb350]

I haven't gotten a chance to research it, but is there a reason they are using maple?

Perhaps mitigating the risk would either create a hassle or take away from the entertainment factor of the game.... for example protecting fans from line drive fouls

[ideliver]

these need banned from baseball..I have been following this story for years...and have reached the same conclusion...the real tragedy is when it happens to a fan...they won't do anything until a major investment (star player) gets permanently injured or killed

[BTM]

Originally Posted by kyleb350

I haven't gotten a chance to research it, but is there a reason they are using maple?

Perhaps mitigating the risk would either create a hassle or take away from the entertainment factor of the game.... for example protecting fans from line drive fouls

I can't find anything about this either, however I caught the end of something on the radio yesterday that made it seem like there was some sort of ash regulations or a shortage or something...again I could be completely off as I didn't hear the whole segment.

Only thing I found online had to do with the fact that Barry Bonds used a maple bat in his 73HR season, but I don't think that's very accurate. It also seems that the player's association itself is defending or has defended the use of maple bats, but I may have heard that on the radio since upon searching for the link I couldn't come up with anything. The only definitive answer I have is that ash used to be used predominantly, and now it is maple. Why, I don't know.

[SpacE82]

I heard on the radio that there isnt enough ash to make the amount of bats they would need. thats why they use maple. Its too bad that happened cuz Colvin was one of the bright spots for the Cubs (and Castro) this season.

dont mean to thread jack, but did anyone see Jorge Posada get "hit" by a pitch last night?? wtf, we need replay for this shit, you cant put it ALL on the umps, the game moves so fast, if a player is acting like they are in pain, whats the ump supposed to do, say "no your fine." One of the best teams in baseball has to pretend they are getting hit by pitches. Its so lame. I have no respect for the Yankees and I lost all the respect for Derek Cheater when he got "hit," he even lead the trainer on..idiot.
/rant

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by SpacE82

dont mean to thread jack, but did anyone see Jorge Posada get "hit" by a pitch last night?? wtf, we need replay for this shit, you cant put it ALL on the umps, the game moves so fast, if a player is acting like they are in pain, whats the ump supposed to do, say "no your fine." One of the best teams in baseball has to pretend they are getting hit by pitches. Its so lame. I have no respect for the Yankees and I lost all the respect for Derek Cheater when he got "hit," he even lead the trainer on..idiot.
/rant

Name me one player that would go to the umpire and say, " That didn't hit me" after the umpire called a HBP.... Most likely, you'll be hard pressed to name one. It's part of the game. Umpires blow calls, players do indeed fake things. Even Maddon said last week that he would be happy if one of his Rays players did what Jeter did.

You do realize replay would slow the game down? Which is the opposite of what MLB wants to do? I agree with replay on HR's and would support replay on close plays at home plate. But, leave the rest alone. Human error is part of the game.

[SpacE82]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Name me one player that would go to the umpire and say, " That didn't hit me" after the umpire called a HBP.... Most likely, you'll be hard pressed to name one. It's part of the game. Umpires blow calls, players do indeed fake things. Even Maddon said last week that he would be happy if one of his Rays players did what Jeter did.

You do realize replay would slow the game down? Which is the opposite of what MLB wants to do? I agree with replay on HR's and would support replay on close plays at home plate. But, leave the rest alone. Human error is part of the game.

I hear what your saying, but when its this late in the season where every call is so important, i think replay should be more involved...human error is part of the game...but it doesnt have to be. I dont think replay should be used on every play, but like you said, close plays at the plate and HR's and plays like this. They dont happen often, but when they do, they could have a huge effect on the game.

and as far as players saying they DIDNT get hit, that happens all the time...i've seen it a bunch of times were players would say to the ump that it didnt hit them just to get another chance to swing the bat.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by quagmire

You do realize replay would slow the game down? Which is the opposite of what MLB wants to do? I agree with replay on HR's and would support replay on close plays at home plate. But, leave the rest alone. Human error is part of the game.

This argument makes me chuckle. How would replay be any slower than the umps getting together and conferring for 3 minutes which is the case much of the time? Pitchers can work as slow or fast as they like, batters are allowed to take time, I don't think replay will noticeably slow the game down, and would actually expedite getting calls right - much better IMO than umps conferencing for 3 minutes and STILL getting the call wrong, when anyone at home watching on TV can see the replay over and over in the same timeframe and see clearly what the right call is.

Human error is part of any game - but human error on the rule enforcement side of things is not. A player missing a throw or hesitating to watch his "hr" fall short only to be thrown out trying to stretch a double is part of the game. A mistake made on the rule enforcement part, though attributable to human error, is not and should never be intended to be a part of anything with a clear set of rules.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by SpacE82

I hear what your saying, but when its this late in the season where every call is so important, i think replay should be more involved...human error is part of the game...but it doesnt have to be. I dont think replay should be used on every play, but like you said, close plays at the plate and HR's and plays like this. They dont happen often, but when they do, they could have a huge effect on the game.

and as far as players saying they DIDNT get hit, that happens all the time...i've seen it a bunch of times were players would say to the ump that it didnt hit them just to get another chance to swing the bat.

Human error is what makes the game interesting. Todays fans are too spoiled, too demanding, etc. It's this attitude that is destroying the game. And a small rant of my own, led to the demolition of Yankee Stadium. Baseball isn't football. The human factor is a part of the game and I like it.

You seen major league players go to the umpire and say it didn't hit them? Do you have any videos or articles that have the player do that?

[BTM]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Human error is what makes the game interesting. Todays fans are too spoiled, too demanding, etc. It's this attitude that is destroying the game. And a small rant of my own, led to the demolition of Yankee Stadium. Baseball isn't football. The human factor is a part of the game and I like it.

I agree that baseball is a "different" game from other pro sports and the human element is a great aspect of it. The way I view the human element in baseball as different than other major sports, is that in baseball, trying harder doesn't necessarily make you better. This type of human error I consider to be "good" human factor. Blown calls are a "bad" type of human factor.

Instant replay is in no way removing the "good" human factor from the game - in fact it is making it better by more transparently translating player human error into the game itself, not rewarding liars saying they got hit by a pitch or taking away HRs that were in fact HRs. It's not the fans being spoiled - it's the fact that anyone with a freaking TV can see what the call should have been. It's been instituted pretty successfully into other sports. Maybe a challenge system in order, or merely reviewing close (defined as indeterminate) plays/calls that aren't balls/strikes by a guy upstairs. Watching on TV these calls are usually apparent right away, and that's not even with ideal camera placement. The game is evolving for the better, not for the worse, and I don't see how umps blowing calls that are easily gotten right through some method other than "what a guy on the field saw" is in anyway going to "make it worse"

[SpacE82]

Originally Posted by quagmire

You seen major league players go to the umpire and say it didn't hit them? Do you have any videos or articles that have the player do that?

You've never seen the ball glance a player and them step back in the box pretending like it didnt hit them? Ive seen it happen numerous times and im sure im not the only one who's seen that.

I just think that situations like this arent human error. Jeter pretended he got hit by the ball. The ump called it a hit by pitch because of the way jeter acted. Thats not human error, thats jeter influencing the call. If jeter would have acted like it hit the bat, we wouldnt be having this conversation. If you look at the Posada play, he didnt act like it hit him until a second after the play and he spun around.

Just because human error "is part of the game" doesnt mean it has to be part of the game...its part of the game because when baseball was first played we didnt have the benefit of replay. I mean how many replays did they show of the play before the next pitch was thrown. like what BTM said, a guy upstairs relays the call down to the ump. It wont slow down baseball more than it already is...I love baseball, but I think it can benefit from replay.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by SpacE82

You've never seen the ball glance a player and them step back in the box pretending like it didnt hit them? Ive seen it happen numerous times and im sure im not the only one who's seen that.

Did the umpire call a HBP? You also had players argue that it hit them. Did any player go to the umpire and say, " It didn't hit." after he called a HBP?

I just think that situations like this arent human error. Jeter pretended he got hit by the ball. The ump called it a hit by pitch because of the way jeter acted. Thats not human error, thats jeter influencing the call. If jeter would have acted like it hit the bat, we wouldnt be having this conversation. If you look at the Posada play, he didnt act like it hit him until a second after the play and he spun around.

The umpire called a HBP as soon as Jeter ran out of the batters box after he twisted around. There was no acting needed besides going with it after the umpire called it. Did you expect Jeter would say it didn't hit him when they needed a baserunner? ESPN, Maddon, etc didn't have a problem with it what Jeter did. They all called it gamesmenship. Like I stated earlier, Maddon stated he would be happy if one of his players would do the same.

Now I watched Posada's fake, and that I agree was shady. Posada deceived the umpire into calling a HBP. Jeter's situation was different. The HBP call was immediate for Jeter.

Just because human error "is part of the game" doesnt mean it has to be part of the game...its part of the game because when baseball was first played we didnt have the benefit of replay. I mean how many replays did they show of the play before the next pitch was thrown. like what BTM said, a guy upstairs relays the call down to the ump. It wont slow down baseball more than it already is...I love baseball, but I think it can benefit from replay.

Like I stated, there are certain situations I will be ok with using replay to reverse a call. HR, call at the plate, or a situation like Armando Galarraga's imperfect game where a blown call would effect history. But, in no other situation I would approve the use of replay. Balls/ strikes, fair/foul( besides on HR's), safe/out( except at homeplate or a potential perfect game or no hitter in the 9th) are situations where I like the human element to remain without interference from replay. If it was a blown call, it sucks, but we all live with it. Good teams will overcome that blown call.

[SpacE82]

I agree that it should be for fair foul, balls strikes, or safe out plays. But I think the way jeter acted influenced the call. I dont blame him for going with the call, but its the way he acted when it clearly hit the bat. There is a clearly different reaction when you get hit by a pitch, and when the ball hits the bat...the ball hit the bat, but jeters reaction was as if it hit HIM. What else is the ump supposed to call based on jeters reaction? Like I said, jeter went with it and i dont blame him for that. I just think his initial reaction influenced the call...posadas was wayyy more obvious based on his reaction. But how can an ump say you didnt get hit if he has know way of knowing except for listening and the players reaction? I think in both cases, the reaction influenced it...but replay would negate that

I mean we could discuss this till we are blue in the face (like the mlb has been doing for years) haha

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by SpacE82

I agree that it should be for fair foul, balls strikes, or safe out plays. But I think the way jeter acted influenced the call. I dont blame him for going with the call, but its the way he acted when it clearly hit the bat. There is a clearly different reaction when you get hit by a pitch, and when the ball hits the bat...the ball hit the bat, but jeters reaction was as if it hit HIM. What else is the ump supposed to call based on jeters reaction? Like I said, jeter went with it and i dont blame him for that. I just think his initial reaction influenced the call...posadas was wayyy more obvious based on his reaction. But how can an ump say you didnt get hit if he has know way of knowing except for listening and the players reaction? I think in both cases, the reaction influenced it...but replay would negate that

I mean we could discuss this till we are blue in the face (like the mlb has been doing for years) haha

I have seen Jeter do the twist around and run out of the batters box plenty of times and he didn't try to fake a HBP or influence the umpires call. Now I am sure doing that plus the noise of the ball hitting the bat caused the ump to call the HBP, but that move was classic Jeter.

[Couch]

Since yall have changed the topic a little I'm jumping in.

If baseball has to do one thing to improve interest, shorten the season. (basically) March-November is way too long. IMO, the World Series should be ending no later than the beginning of October.