[wj4]

I ran into this article last night and thought it was an interesting read. Yes I know the article is over a year old, but nonetheless a good read IMO.

Some people still think 100k a year income will allow you to live luxurously. But after the tax, and if you're living in a large city like NYC or L.A., it doesn't really go a long way.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/fa...8halfmill.html

[Freakazoid]

holy shit does this article piss me off:

A chauffeur’s pay is between $75,000 and $125,000 a year

A personal trainer at $80 an hour three times a week comes to about $12,000 a year.

etc etc

WTF is this bitching about? All these assumptions are on 2 income earners as well, if you're living in that area, it's safe to assume both of you are making 500k each....


Also I love the SS mis-calculation they did... there's no doubt this original income was supposed to spark SOME type of feelings. This fucking article pisses me off to no end, holy shit. It's all fucking relative, end of story

[wj4]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

holy shit does this article piss me off:

A chauffeur’s pay is between $75,000 and $125,000 a year

A personal trainer at $80 an hour three times a week comes to about $12,000 a year.

etc etc

WTF is this bitching about? All these assumptions are on 2 income earners as well, if you're living in that area, it's safe to assume both of you are making 500k each....


Also I love the SS mis-calculation they did... there's no doubt this original income was supposed to spark SOME type of feelings. This fucking article pisses me off to no end, holy shit. It's all fucking relative, end of story

Damn, man. Getting pissed off from an online article? Take a minute and take in some deep breaths.

There is no doubt that the article was meant to stir up debates and I'm sure it succeeded.

There is also no doubt that there is excessive spending there, ie private school, nanny, and private trainer.

I'm not sure how much the tax is for that level of income in the state, I would guess no less than 40%.

Tthe general public would think that when you make that much money (even pre tax), you pretty much rule the world.

Yes, it sounds extremely grotesque in term of necessities...but again, this is America.

[Seminole]

Here's a great idea. Stop living such a lavish lifestyle! Warren Buffet has more money than all of them and he lives a more modest (by their standards) lifestyle.

There is nothing wrong with public schools, taking care of the kids yourself, driving your own car, not owning a $4 million summer home, etc., etc.

That retard author talks about all those things like they are necessities and that it is the right of all these CEO's to have them.

Now I understand that $500,000 may not go a long way in NYC, but many of those things listed are hardly necessities.

[Hawkeye]

In Iowa, 100K a year is a decent amount of money and you can live semi luxuriously

[Comet]

“You’re not going to get through private school without tutoring a kid,” said Sandy Bass

uhm, are those kids retarded?

“a woman can spend $10,000 or $15,000 on a dress. If she goes to three or four of those a year, she’s not going to wear the same dress.”

These people obviously have no idea how to shop..

they are just finding random stuff to spend on. And they are finding the most expensive on purpose...

[NYCGarbagePrince]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

In Iowa, 100K a year is a decent amount of money and you can live semi luxuriously

How many 100k jobs are there in Iowa? How many 100k jobs are there in NYC?

Honestly, the author dropped the ball on that article. Could have done a much better job explaining how living in NYC requires a level of spending 99% of the country simply can't understand.

You might think it is absurd to spend $1,000.00 on a suit. But the bank who hires him REQUIRES him to look the part. It is not based on a dual income family either like some of you have assumed. If the husband or wife is making 500k, their spouse is almost certainly not making even salary. Now considering they are both working, then you need a nanny.

Public schools in nyc.... wanna guess how many children go to public schools from families who make more than 500k a year? Not many.

Do you guys want to know what the tax is to park your car in NYC? 18.875% on top of whatever ludicrous amount they charge you. Thats right! 8.875% sales tax and a 10% parking tax that nyc includes. So fine, you can take the train to work. I do! No big deal right? Well what if you are an executive that needs to be at meetings all day, maybe a few of them are back to back? Well you need a car, and you need a driver.

Haven't even touched on the fact that NYC is the single most expensive place to rent/buy an apt, period. It just recently beat out Tokyo, Paris, London, and Hong Kong.

People just don't understand. If my car wasn't an expense I am capable of writing off, I would NEVER own/drive it. Its hilarious to some people when they see my car and then come to my apartment in the city. It is embarrassing, it truly is. All 615 sq ft. I rent my apt, but the Apt next door which is a studio of similar size, just sold for $725,000.00.

What does $725,000.00 buy you in other places in the country? You could build a 10k sq ft mansion somewhere in middle america for less than that. Or you could live in a closet in NYC. It sucks living here because it costs so damn much, but its where everyone's money is, so it is where I have to be.

[wj4]

Originally Posted by Seminole

Here's a great idea. Stop living such a lavish lifestyle! Warren Buffet has more money than all of them and he lives a more modest (by their standards) lifestyle.

There is nothing wrong with public schools, taking care of the kids yourself, driving your own car, not owning a $4 million summer home, etc., etc.

That retard author talks about all those things like they are necessities and that it is the right of all these CEO's to have them.

Now I understand that $500,000 may not go a long way in NYC, but many of those things listed are hardly necessities.

I don't think anyone on this board would like like Warren Buffet if we had his wealth. He lives in a regular home somewhere in Iowa (or some where like that, right?) And he drives a Buick I believe. By that standard, all the BMW owners on this board own better cars than him, but (most likely) none of us are billionaires.

I read several books on him..he is a great business man, but if I become a billionaire, or hell a millionaire, I would prefer the finer things in life.

Public schools..man at least here in L.A., our public education system SUCKS. They enforced a high school exit exam program in 2004, in which you have to pass to graduate. Now they are calling it quits with the program because it created an effect where seniors are not graduating and new freshmen are coming in...thus creating insufficient room.

Taking care of the kids would be hard if both parents work full time. I sometimes babysit for a friend who is an attorney and wife is an RN. Even for the few hours that I babysit for them, they tire me out severely.

I do agree on the driving your own car and not owning vacation homes though.

I'm not sure what is the average price of a decent average home in a middle class area in NY is, but I would venture a guess that it is no less than a million.

A ~1,500 sq ft home in my area costs around $700,000 in the current market. And I don't live in an area like Newport Beach or Beverly Hills or anything. Middle class at best.



"You might think it is absurd to spend $1,000.00 on a suit."

Not at all, Garbage. $1,000 is pretty cheap for a suit, that's borderline mall brand territory. A decent suit will run more than that.

[Comet]

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

How many 100k jobs are there in Iowa? How many 100k jobs are there in NYC?

Honestly, the author dropped the ball on that article. Could have done a much better job explaining how living in NYC requires a level of spending 99% of the country simply can't understand.

You might think it is absurd to spend $1,000.00 on a suit. But the bank who hires him REQUIRES him to look the part. It is not based on a dual income family either like some of you have assumed. If the husband or wife is making 500k, their spouse is almost certainly not making even salary. Now considering they are both working, then you need a nanny.

Public schools in nyc.... wanna guess how many children go to public schools from families who make more than 500k a year? Not many.

Do you guys want to know what the tax is to park your car in NYC? 18.875% on top of whatever ludicrous amount they charge you. Thats right! 8.875% sales tax and a 10% parking tax that nyc includes. So fine, you can take the train to work. I do! No big deal right? Well what if you are an executive that needs to be at meetings all day, maybe a few of them are back to back? Well you need a car, and you need a driver.

Haven't even touched on the fact that NYC is the single most expensive place to rent/buy an apt, period. It just recently beat out Tokyo, Paris, London, and Hong Kong.

People just don't understand. If my car wasn't an expense I am capable of writing off, I would NEVER own/drive it. Its hilarious to some people when they see my car and then come to my apartment in the city. It is embarrassing, it truly is. All 615 sq ft. I rent my apt, but the Apt next door which is a studio of similar size, just sold for $725,000.00.

What does $725,000.00 buy you in other places in the country? You could build a 10k sq ft mansion somewhere in middle america for less than that. Or you could live in a closet in NYC. It sucks living here because it costs so damn much, but its where everyone's money is, so it is where I have to be.

While I agree with you
you don't require a 1,000$ suit to look the part.
You can find a tailor that can make you a copy or something much much much nicer for a lot cheaper

This is a story that my father once.
When my dad got his first job, he used to get paid like 25 Lebanese Liras (we're talking in the 50s).
His boss told him he needed to go get a suit because there was a meeting coming up.
So my dad went and bought a 90 Lira suit.
The next day his boss asked him "how much did your suit end up costing you?"
To which my dad said "90 Liras sir"
The boss said "90 Liras. You put yourself in debt for about 4 months... tell me, how much do you think I spent on my suit?"
My dad figured since his suit was 90, that the boss of such a large corporation would have a suit costing so much more so he said "250 Liras?"
The boss laughed and said "15 Liras. But because of my position, you and everyone else will assume I spent 250 Liras, and you, because of your position, people will assume you spent 15."

Which is true
if you see a thug on the street with a Rolex, you will assume it is a fake.
You see a high powered business man with a Rolex and you will assume it is real (just using Rolex as an example, I know there are pricier watches), but for all you know, it could be the opposites

[NYCGarbagePrince]

Originally Posted by wj4

"You might think it is absurd to spend $1,000.00 on a suit."

Not at all, Garbage. $1,000 is pretty cheap for a suit, that's borderline mall brand territory. A decent suit will run more than that.

I completely agree with you. I have my suits tailored by a traveling tailor. Mytailor.com ftw!

Let's not forget what dry cleaning costs are. Mine are ridiculous...

[Comet]

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

I completely agree with you. I have my suits tailored by a traveling tailor. Mytailor.com ftw!

Let's not forget what dry cleaning costs are. Mine are ridiculous...

NYC is expensive :S
I have a Tailor come to my office and tailors it (just like the movies! ) and the whole thing costs me 300$
my dry cleaning gets picked up from my house and returned there for super cheap.

[bolinp78]

Originally Posted by wj4

I don't think anyone on this board would like like Warren Buffet if we had his wealth. He lives in a regular home somewhere in Iowa (or some where like that, right?) And he drives a Buick I believe. By that standard, all the BMW owners on this board own better cars than him, but (most likely) none of us are billionaires.

I read several books on him..he is a great business man, but if I become a billionaire, or hell a millionaire, I would prefer the finer things in life.

And this is because his generation as a whole had to make their own way and they respect the value of a dollar much more than our generation, who has more often been brought up with some sort of money and given the things that the people from Buffet's generation never had when they were growing up.

Now he's definitely somewhat of an exception (living such a modest lifestyle for how much money he has), but as a whole, people from our generation are going to 'prefer the finer things in life' because we have grown up with them (for the most part) and therefore expect them.

On an unrelated tangent, I really don't like it when people age 50+ hold grudges against our generation for what we have and how we act. We live and act according to how we have been brought up. I'm glad for my dad that he was able to make his own way and give me things that he did not have when he was younger, but when he occasionally goes off talking about how we are so spoiled and how it is so negative, it doesn't sound right. I'm not saying that the current way that our generation acts is becoming by any means, or that we aren't spoiled, but the way that it is portrayed is incorrect IMO.

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

You might think it is absurd to spend $1,000.00 on a suit. But the bank who hires him REQUIRES him to look the part.

This is my point on why it's all relative and why trying to attract 'sympathy' is bullshit. My job also REQUIRES me to look the part as well (IT/consulting). All jobs require it on whatever level, the higher the salary the higher the 'requirement'.

I'm not discounting that the shit is expensive, and it's loosely 'required' by the job... however you can't act like it's such a 'toll' to *have* to buy your 10k suit, or your 10k dress, or whatever. Oh mercy me, I feel just horrible for you.

(I also like the other post relating the Rolex to the person relating it, good insight as well).

Also this isn't hating on rich people whatsoever, lots of times they earned it fair and square...this cyncism (or whatever you wanna call it), is targetted towards the article but I'm in no way going to feel 'bad' because you, because you're rich and have to live the part.

[NYCGarbagePrince]

Originally Posted by Comet

While I agree with you
you don't require a 1,000$ suit to look the part.
You can find a tailor that can make you a copy or something much much much nicer for a lot cheaper

This is a story that my father once.
When my dad got his first job, he used to get paid like 25 Lebanese Liras (we're talking in the 50s).
His boss told him he needed to go get a suit because there was a meeting coming up.
So my dad went and bought a 90 Lira suit.
The next day his boss asked him "how much did your suit end up costing you?"
To which my dad said "90 Liras sir"
The boss said "90 Liras. You put yourself in debt for about 4 months... tell me, how much do you think I spent on my suit?"
My dad figured since his suit was 90, that the boss of such a large corporation would have a suit costing so much more so he said "250 Liras?"
The boss laughed and said "15 Liras. But because of my position, you and everyone else will assume I spent 250 Liras, and you, because of your position, people will assume you spent 15."

Which is true
if you see a thug on the street with a Rolex, you will assume it is a fake.
You see a high powered business man with a Rolex and you will assume it is real (just using Rolex as an example, I know there are pricier watches), but for all you know, it could be the opposites

... When you are surrounded by people in nice looking suits and you are wearing something made for "a lot cheaper" ... you look a lot cheaper.

Remember that scene in "American Psycho" when they are all comparing their business cards. It is like that, and these executives are also expected to bring business their company and look as if they are capable of doing so.

We live in a superficial world, and to make matters worse in NYC everyone is "running late" so they don't have time to judge you on your character. Sometimes they judge you on how you look, and you better look good or you will pay for it. This is such a small part of the equation though...

It comes down to real estate and simple cost of living expenses. Milk is twice as expensive in the city as it is in the burbs. Groceries that were costing me 75 a week on LI cost me almost $150.00 in the city.

What people fail to notice is this... to live like you should live on the salary your getting paid in NYC you need to make ridiculous sacrifices which sometimes outweigh the difference in salary.

[M_Six]

NYC is a great place to visit, but this article is not that far off. Super expensive place to live if you want to live well.

My biggest problem with NYC is the availability of awesome restaurants everywhere. Wifey and I would go broke just eating out all the time.

[Comet]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

This is my point on why it's all relative and why trying to attract 'sympathy' is bullshit. My job also REQUIRES me to look the part as well (IT/consulting). All jobs require it on whatever level, the higher the salary the higher the 'requirement'.

I'm not discounting that the shit is expensive, and it's loosely 'required' by the job... however you can't act like it's such a 'toll' to *have* to buy your 10k suit, or your 10k dress, or whatever. Oh mercy me, I feel just horrible for you.

(I also like the other post relating the Rolex to the person relating it, good insight as well).

Also this isn't hating on rich people whatsoever, lots of times they earned it fair and square...this cyncism (or whatever you wanna call it), is targetted towards the article but I'm in no way going to feel 'bad' because you, because you're rich and have to live the part.

I'm not hating on them.. I just find that they bring it upon themselves.
I learned a long time ago that it doesn't need to be expensive to be good

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

... When you are surrounded by people in nice looking suits and you are wearing something made for "a lot cheaper" ... you look a lot cheaper.

Remember that scene in "American Psycho" when they are all comparing their business cards. It is like that, and these executives are also expected to bring business their company and look as if they are capable of doing so.

We live in a superficial world, and to make matters worse in NYC everyone is "running late" so they don't have time to judge you on your character. Sometimes they judge you on how you look, and you better look good or you will pay for it. This is such a small part of the equation though...

It comes down to real estate and simple cost of living expenses. Milk is twice as expensive in the city as it is in the burbs. Groceries that were costing me 75 a week on LI cost me almost $150.00 in the city.

What people fail to notice is this... to live like you should live on the salary your getting paid in NYC you need to make ridiculous sacrifices which sometimes outweigh the difference in salary.

give me a couple *good* sacrifices that actually mean that, and I might give that some merit....
Clothes is not justifiable. Food is not justifiable. Rent is not justifiable.
These are all things that people in lesser brackets would KILL to have (a 10k suit, a condo in NYC, and food you can simply either drive further, or just pay the cost...)

[Freakazoid]

Originally Posted by Comet

I'm not hating on them.. I just find that they bring it upon themselves.
I learned a long time ago that it doesn't need to be expensive to be good

yes

Again I can not iterate this enough, I have no misgivings *whatsoever* towards rich people (or rather towards people who have earned it, in whatever capacity). But there will never be one ounce of sympathy given by me because *you* feel you have to live the part.

[scollins]

Originally Posted by Comet

While I agree with you
you don't require a 1,000$ suit to look the part.
You can find a tailor that can make you a copy or something much much much nicer for a lot cheaper

And you don't need a $50,000 BMW to drive a car that handles and performs well. You could easily get by with a Hyundai Genesis Coupe. What's your point? We all make choices on what we want to spend our money on. You don't value a quality suit? Fine, your choice. But others will say you don't need to spend all that money on a BMW either. Who is right?

[NYCGarbagePrince]

Originally Posted by Freakazoid

Also this isn't hating on rich people whatsoever, lots of times they earned it fair and square...this cyncism (or whatever you wanna call it), is targetted towards the article but I'm in no way going to feel 'bad' because you, because you're rich and have to live the part.

It's not asking you to feel bad. What it is showing is that you can't turn around to every person with a certain job title in the US and say this is all you can make. Because companies who require these people to work in NYC can't do it. If i was qualified and had put in the amount of years these guys have put it, you aren't gonna tell me I have to take a 75% reduction in salary because you loaned my company money. I will go work someplace else. You think you are going to get people qualified for those positions paying 75% less than the rest of the market?

It's a big mess and the fingers are being pointed at the wrong people. Honestly, these people are being made scape goats. Either way, giving a bank exec in NYC 500k to live on is like giving an exec in Detroit 150k. Maybe it will push more banks headquarters out of NYC? How is that good for my city? How is that good for the overall economy? Might be good for places struggling, but honestly I blame the unions for the problems in those areas.

[Comet]

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

... When you are surrounded by people in nice looking suits and you are wearing something made for "a lot cheaper" ... you look a lot cheaper.

Quality doesn't need to suffer necessarily. Most of the times you are paying for a name

Remember that scene in "American Psycho" when they are all comparing their business cards. It is like that, and these executives are also expected to bring business their company and look as if they are capable of doing so.

I don't watch horror/thrillers.. yes, I'm a pansy :P

We live in a superficial world, and to make matters worse in NYC everyone is "running late" so they don't have time to judge you on your character. Sometimes they judge you on how you look, and you better look good or you will pay for it. This is such a small part of the equation though...

I live in Lebanon where you are judged 100% based on look. People think I'm poor because I don't wear suits to the office
I know all about what it is to live in a show off environment. This country is so show off that we had a nightclub who used to put up the names of the people who had the largest bill that night. But when my "cheap" suits are worn, no one mistakes me for poor, despite I paid 300% less than than everyone in the room. It is just good taste (from my and the tailor's end) and luckily a good tailor that does a good job. I'm sure you can find a lot of talented tailors in NYC that are under the radar, you just need to look.
I bought a new desk for the office.. All the high end places were selling it for 8,000$. I went straight to the people who make it and paid 800$... :/

[bolinp78]

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

It's not asking you to feel bad. What it is showing is that you can't turn around to every person with a certain job title in the US and say this is all you can make.

Oh they can, and they will. If not that then they'll tax us into an abyss and keep spending and spending until the U.S. becomes insolvent. Or perhaps all of the above.