[gonzo]

Ring time released. Holy smokes.

I copied as far as the MCS JCW because I had no idea it went around that quick. That must have been a nervous lap but still fast.

Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
1. Radical SR8LM 6:48 182 ´ 455 / 650 Michael Vergers
2. Radical SR8 6:55 179 ´05 363 / 650 Michael Vergers
3. Gumpert Apollo Speed 7:11.57 172 ´09 700 / 1200 Florian Gruber
4. Donkervoort D8 RS 7:14.89 (IFC) 171 ´05 350 / 600 Michael Duechting
5. Porsche GT2 RS 7:18 169 ´10 620 / 1370 Porsche
6. Radical SR3 Turbo 7:19 (IFC) 169 ´03 320 / 500 Phil Bennett
7. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 7:22.1 (FC) 168 ´08 600 / 1536 Motor Trend
8. Gumpert Apollo Sport 7:24 (IT) 167 ´07 700 / 1200 sportauto
9. Maserati MC12 7:24.29 (IT) 167 ´04 632 / 1335 Marc Basseng
10. Pagani Zonda F Clubsport 7:24.65 (IT) 167 ´05 650 / 1230 Marc Basseng
11. Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21 (IT) 167 ´02 660 / 1365 Marc Basseng
12. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 7:26.4 (FC) 166 ´08 647 / 1530 Jim Mero
13. Nissan GT-R 7:26.70 (FC) 166 ´08 479 / 1740 Toshio Suzuki
14. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71 (IT) 165 ´03 612 / 1380 Walther Röhrl
15. Porsche 997 GT2 7:31 (FC) 164 ´07 530 / 1440 Walter Röhrl
16. Pagani Zonda F 7:33 164 ´05 602 / 1371 Sport Auto
17. Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55 164 ´06 806 / 1456 Marc Basseng
18. Koenigsegg CCR 7:34 163 ´04 806 / 1418 Sport Auto
19. Nissan GT-R Spec-V 7:34.46 163 ´09 492 / 1680 Best Motoring
20. RUF RT12 7:35 163 ´05 650 / 1573 Sport Auto
21. Porsche 997 Turbo 7:38 162 ´06 480 / 1585 Porsche
22. Ferrari 430 Scuderia 7:39 162 ´07 510 / 1402 sportauto
23. Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 7:40 161 ´06 640 / 1805 AutoBild sportscars
24. McLaren Mercedes SLR 7:40 161 ´03 626 / 1768 Klaus Ludwig
25. Porsche 997 GT3 (facelift) 7:40 161 ´09 435 / 1376 Walter Rhorl
26. Mercedes SLS AMG 7:40 161 ´10 571 / 1620 Christoph
27. Porsche 997 GT3 7:42 161 ´06 415 / 1395 Walter Rƶhrl
28. Lamborghini Murciélago LP 670-4 SuperVeloce 7:42 161 ´09 670 / 1764 Horst von Saurma
29. Radical SR3 7:42.00 161 ´02 205 / 495
30. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 7:42.9 160 ´05 513 / 1437.3 Jan Magnussen
31. Porsche 996 GT3 RS 7:43 160 ´03 381 / 1360 "Motor" magazine
32. Pagani Zonda C12 S 7:44 160 ´02 555 / 1250 Sport Auto
33. Audi R8 V10 5.2 FSI 7:44.0 160 ´09 525 / 1620 sportauto
34. Mercedes CLK 63 Black Series 7:45 159 ´07 507 / 1745 berndt schneider
35. Porsche 996 GT2 7:46 159 ´00 460 / 1430 Sport Auto
36. Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera 7:46 159 ´07 530 / 1520 Auto (Italy)
37. Jaguar XJ220 7:46.37 159 ´92 549 / 1555 John Nielsen
38. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano 7:47 159 ´06 620 / 1748 Sport Auto
39. Porsche 997 GT3 RS 7:48 158 ´06 415 / 1375 Sport Auto
40. Lamborghini Murcielago 7:50 158 ´02 580 / 1800 Sport Auto
41. BMW M3 CSL (E46) 7:50 158 ´03 360 / 1385 Sport Auto
42. Porsche 997 Carrera S (2008 facelift) 7:50 158 ´08 385 / 1425
43. Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series 7:51 157 ´09 670 / 1870 Sport Auto 05/2009
44. Lamborghini Gallardo 7:52 157 ´03 500 / 1613 Sport Auto
45. Ford GT 7:52 157 ´04 550 / 1538 Sport Auto
46. Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 7:52 157 ´08 560 / 1530 sportauto
47. Mercedes CLK DTM 7:54 156 ´04 582 / 1678 Sport Auto
48. Porsche 996 GT3 late 7:54 156 ´03 380 / 1380 Sport Auto
49. Ferrari F430 7:55 156 ´05 489 / 1450 Sport Auto
50. Porsche 996 Turbo 7:56 156 ´00 420 / 1540 Sport Auto
51. Ferrari 360 CS 7:56 156 ´03 425 / 1280 sport auto 02/2004
52. Chevrolet Corvette C5Z06 '02-'04 7:56 156 ´01 411 / 1414 Dave Hill
53. Porsche Panamera Sport Chrono Turbo 7:56 156 ´09 500 / 1974 Walter Roehrl (AutoB
54. Porsche Panamera Turbo 7:56.0 156 ´09 500 / 1870 Walter Röhrl
55. Porsche 996 GT3 early 7:56.33 156 ´99 360 / 1350 Walter Rohl
56. Honda NSX-R 7:56.733 156 ´02 280 / 1270 Gan San
57. Audi RS4 (B7) 7:58 155 ´05 420 / 1720 Frank Stippler
58. Chevrolet Corvette C6 7:59 155 ´04 400 / 1470 Motortrend
59. Cadillac CTS-V 7:59.32 (Pre product 155 ´09 564 / 1955 john heinricy
60. Porsche 997 Carrera S 7:59:00 155 ´04 355 / 1420 Walter Roehrl, WHEEL
61. Bugatti EB 110 SS (US market version) 8:01 154 ´92 600 / 1735
62. Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder 8:01.84 154 ´06 520 / 1748 Wolfgang Kaufmann
63. Audi R8 8:01.90 (FL) 154 ´06 420 / 1560 Sportscars
64. Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R 8:01:72 154 ´95 280 / 1601 Gansan (V-Spec model
65. Aston Martin DBS 8:02 154 ´07 517 / 1695 Sport Auto
66. Aston Martin V8 Vantage (380bhp) 8:03 154 ´05 385 / 1636 Sport Auto
67. Honda NSX-R (3.0) 8:03.86 153 ´ 274 / 1281 Motoharu Kurosawa
68. Lamborghini Diablo GT 8:04 153 ´99 570 / 1520 Sport Auto
69. Porsche 997 Carrera 4S (facelift) 8:04.52 (full lap wi 153 ´08 385 / 1425 sportscars
70. RUF CTR Yellow Bird 8:05 153 ´87 469 / 1150
71. Ferrari 575 Maranello 8:05 153 ´02 515 / 1760 Sport Auto
72. BMW M3 (E92) 8:05 153 ´07 420 / 1619 Sport Auto
73. Porsche Cayman S(facelift) PDK 8:06 153 ´08 320 / 1375 Porsche ?
74. Mercedes SL 55 AMG 8:06.0 153 ´06 517 / 1960 sport Auto Mag
75. Caterham Superlight R 8:06.20 153 ´97 193 / 525 Autocar
76. Ferrari 550 Maranello 8:07 152 ´96 486 / 1690 Sport Auto
77. BMW M6 8:07.76 152 ´05 507 / 1710 Sportauto
78. Porsche 964 Turbo 3.3 (320hp) 8:08.71 ** 152 ´91 320 / 1470 best motoring
79. Ferrari 360 Modena 8:09 152 ´99 400 / 1390 Sport Auto
80. Lamborghini Diablo SV 8:09 152 ´97 519 / 1590 sportauto
81. Audi RS6 Avant (C6) 8:09 152 ´08 579 / 2025 Audi claim
82. Audi TT-RS Coupe 8:09 152 ´09 340 / 1450 SportAuto
83. Porsche 993 GT2 8:09.3 152 ´95 430 / 1290 Sportauto
84. Donkervoort D8 180R 8:10 151 ´01 240 / 675 Sport Auto
85. Dodge Viper GTS 8:10 151 ´97 457 / 1580 Sport Auto
86. Alpina B6 S 8:10 151 ´08 530 / 1815 sportauto
87. KTM X-Bow 8:10 151 ´08 241 / 871 sportauto
88. Mercedes E63 AMG 8:10.0 151 ´09 525 / 1765 sportauto
89. Porsche Cayman S 8:11 151 ´05 295 / 1406 Walter Roehrl (*mfr.
90. Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX 8:11 151 ´05 290 / 1482 Best Motoring
91. Porsche 993 Turbo 3.6 factory kit 8:12 151 ´97 430 / 1506 sportauto
92. Mercedes SL 55 AMG 8:12 151 ´02 476 / 1855 Sport Auto
93. Lotus Esprit Sport 350 8:13 150 ´99 354 / 1324 Sport Auto
94. Dodge Viper SRT-10 8:13 150 ´05 506 / 1600 Sport Auto
95. BMW M5 (E60) 8:13 150 ´05 507 / 1848 Sport Auto
96. Ferrari F355 8:13 150 ´95 380 / 1350
97. Mercedes C 63 AMG 8:13 150 ´07 457 / 1772 sport auto
98. Mercedes SL65 AMG 8:14 150 ´04 612 / 2049 Sport Auto
99. Mercedes SLK 55 AMG Black Series 8:14 150 ´06 400 / 1506 Sport Auto
100. Alpina B3 Biturbo 8:14 150 ´07 360 / 1626 sportauto
101. Porsche 997 Carrera 8:15 150 ´04 325 / 1395 Walter Rƶhrl
102. RUF BR2 EKS 8:15 150 ´92 360 / 1355 sportauto
103. Alpina Z4 Roadster S 8:15 150 ´03 300 / 1416 sportauto
104. RUF CTR2 8:15 150 ´97 520 / 1422 AutoCar
105. Aston Martin DB9 8:16 150 ´04 450 / 1710 Sport Auto
106. BMW M6 Cabrio 8:16,52 150 ´07 507 / 1930 Wolfgang Kaufmann
107. Honda NSX 3.0 (1991) 8:16.15 149 ´91 274 / 1362 Motoharu Kurosawa (b
108. Renault Megane R26.R 8:16.90 149 ´08 230 / 1252 Vincent Bayle
109. Porsche 996 Carrera 8:17 149 ´97 300 / 1320 Sport Auto
110. Porsche 996 Carrera 320hp 8:17 149 ´01 320 / 1345 Sport Auto
111. Aston Martin V12 Vanquish 8:17 149 ´01 460 / 1882 Sport Auto
112. BMW Z8 8:18 149 ´00 400 / 1585 "Sport Auto"
113. Chevrolet Corvette C5 Comm. Edition Targa 8:18 149 ´04 344 / 1452 Sportauto
114. Maserati Coupe GranSport 8:18 149 ´04 400 / 1680 Sport Auto
115. Lexus IS F 8:18 149 ´07 423 / 1732 Sport Auto
116. Porsche Boxster S (facelift) 8:18 149 ´09 310 / 1380 sportauto
117. Porsche 987 Boxster S (276bhp) 8:18.00 149 ´05 280 / 1345 Walter Rohl
118. Audi RS6 (C5) 8:20 148 ´02 450 / 1840
119. Chevrolet Camaro SS 2010 8:20 148 ´10 432 / 1750 Chevrolet test team
120. BMW M3 (E46) 8:22 148 ´00 343 / 1565 "Sport Auto"
121. Mercedes C 55 AMG 8:22 148 ´04 367 / 1680 Sport Auto
122. BMW Z3 M Coupe 8:22.0 148 ´99 315 / 1465 sportauto
123. Nissan Skyline R32 GT-R 8:22.38 148 ´89 280 / 1430 Motoharu Kurosawa (b
124. Chevrolet Cobalt SS/TC 8:22.85 147 ´08 260 / 1352
125. Porsche 986 Boxster S (262bhp) 8:23 147 ´04 266 / 1320 Sport Auto
126. Aston Martin DB7 GT 8:23 147 ´03 435 / 1780 Sport Auto
127. Mercedes SLK 55 AMG 8:24 147 ´06 360 / 1495 Sport Auto
128. Subaru Impreza WRX STi 8:24 147 ´05 280 / 1500 Sport Auto
129. BMW X6 M 8:24 (IT) 147 ´09 555 / 2343 sportauto
130. Mitsubishi Evo VII 8:25 147 ´02 280 / 1454 Sportauto
131. Audi RS4 Avant (B5) 8:25 147 ´00 380 / 1675 Sportauto
132. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI 8:25 147 ´99 280 / 1384 Sportauto
133. Callaway C12 8:25 147 ´99 400 / 1565 Sport Auto
134. Jaguar XKR 8:25 147 ´06 420 / 1776 Sport Auto
135. Lotus Exige S Performance-Pack 8:25 147 ´06 243 / 940 Sport Auto
136. Mercedes SLK 32 AMG 8:26 147 ´01 354 / 1395 Sport Auto
137. Nissan 350Z (283bhp) 8:26 147 ´02 287 / 1532 Sport Auto
138. BMW 335i Coupe 8:26 147 ´06 306 / 1610 Sport Auto
139. Audi S5 8:26 147 ´07 354 / 1630 Sport Auto
140. Ford Focus RS Mk. II 8:26 147 ´09 305 / 1467 Sport Auto
141. BMW M5 (E39) 8:28 146 ´98 400 / 1795 Sport Auto
142. Porsche 993 Carrera 8:28 146 ´93 272 / 1350 Sport Auto
143. Porsche 993 Carrera Cabrio 8:28 146 ´95 286 / 1370 Sport Auto
144. Porsche 964 Carrera RS 8:28 146 ´91 260 / 1220 sportauto
145. Porsche 993 Carrera 2 (285 PS) 8:28.0 146 ´95 285 / 1398 Sport Auto
146. Nissan Skyline GT-R R33 V-Spec II 8:28.1 146 ´98 305 / 1532 Steve Sutcliffe
147. Nissan Skyline GT-R R34 8:28.10 146 ´98 280 / 1666 Autocar
148. Mercedes CLK 55 AMG 8:29 146 ´99 347 / 1520 Sport Auto
149. Audi S4 (B6) Avant 8:29 146 ´03 344 / 1720 sportauto
150. Audi TT-S Coupe 8:29 146 ´08 272 / 1395 Sport Auto
151. Maserati Coupe Cambiocorsa 8:30 145 ´02 390 / 1580 Sport Auto
152. Pontiac G8 GXP 8:30:0 (FC) 145 ´08 420 / 1828 Non-Professional Guy
153. Cadillac STS-V 8:31 145 ´06 476 / 1948 AutoWeek
154. BMW Z4 3.0si Coupe 8:32 145 ´06 265 / 1408 Sportauto
155. BMW Z3 M Roadster 8:32 145 ´97 321 / 1350 Sport Auto
156. Lotus Exige 8:32 145 ´04 192 / 907 Sport Auto
157. Porsche 986 Boxster S (248bhp) 8:32 145 ´99 252 / 1295 Sport Auto
158. BMW Z4 3.0i 8:32.0 145 ´03 231 / 1384 Sportauto
159. Porsche Cayenne Turbo (Mk II) 8:33.99 144 ´08 500 / 2355 Patrick Simon
160. Vauxhall VX220 Turbo 8:34 144 ´03 200 / 930 "Sport Auto"
161. Opel Speedster Turbo 8:34 144 ´ 200 / 928 Sportauto
162. BMW Z3 3.0i 8:34 144 ´00 231 / 1330 Sport Auto
163. BMW M3 (E36) 8:35 144 ´96 321 / 1474 Sport Auto
164. Mini John Cooper Works 8:35 144 ´08 211 / 1130 Sport Auto

[graider]

we should thank the gtr for this. after nissan start releasing time, every new porsche has ring time number on the PR. lol

i would take the claim as grain of salt, until some mags can replicate this time, it is still just a claim from porsche.

[gonzo]

I am sure Porsche bribed them and just threw a time at the officials they felt would work.

[lyndon_h]

I would like to see an official time also, but in reality, this thing is about 8 seconds faster than a ZR1 with similar HP and much less weight. Sounds pretty believable to me...

[gonzo]

Don't mind him. He does not like Porsche.


graider
Major
Drives: py/kiwi e46 m3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: toronto
Posts: 1,340
iTrader: (0) fact: most porche owners can't drive as good as they claimed to be.



Usually he will comment on how "outdated" they "look". Obviously the most important factor in buying criteria. I wonder if he misspelled Porsche on purpose.

[TheKosherStogie]

Originally Posted by shift@red

So you believe nissans 'claims' when their 'claims' have NEVER been matched by magazines, but wont believe Porsche's when they have been known to be honest and have had their claims nearly matched to the second on all their cars?

im not into the whole RING discussion thing but i watch. ^ you said it!

[lib]

129. BMW X6 M 8:24 (IT) 147 ´09 555 / 2343 sportauto
...
138. BMW 335i Coupe 8:26 147 ´06 306 / 1610 Sport Auto

...

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by lib

...

...

[escobar929]

wow, thats an amazing time

[graider]

Originally Posted by shift@red

So you believe nissans 'claims' when their 'claims' have NEVER been matched by magazines, but wont believe Porsche's when they have been known to be honest and have had their claims nearly matched to the second on all their cars?

using logic where mags like car and driver, motor trend, etc was about to lap the gtr a few secs faster than c6 z06, 997.1 turbo on short track like willow spring, etc and close to the time of viper acr, zr1, etc. the ring time is very believable.

even chris harris or jason plato from fifth gear mentioned that the gtr defy physic. yes the weight and the lap time don't add up, but that's what special about the gtr.

you can say that none can replicate the gtr time on the ring. but that could be they don't know how to get the max out of it like nissan chief driver. same goes for the gt2 rs. the spec is good and believable with lightweight and ton of hp. but i suspect most mags can't get anywhere near 7:18 because they won't be able to get the max out of it just like the gtr.

[gonzo]

A professional driver can get every ounce a stock GT-R has to offer if given a few laps to sort things out.

What am I missing here? You make it sound like some kind of magic carpet.

[ben14142001]

^ The one thing that confuses me about the GT-R is that the Spec-V was 8 seconds (!!!) slower than the stock one. That makes absolutely no sense.

[blue2fire]

Originally Posted by lib

...

Common Sense: 1
Ugly, useless waste of money and Petrol: 0

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Horst von saurma is the best and prob the most experienced 'ring' driver in the world. he is driving one of the easiest cars to drive out there and cant come close to the manuf. claim. Now its either horst cant drive or nissan is lying...and horst is still at the top of his game.

While I believe Porsche's time, I also know that other drivers have beaten his times in the same cars: NSX-R, Porsche 964 Turbo, Murcielago, ZR1, Z06, SLR, etc. The reason is simple: He has only 3 flying timed laps for the supertest. Nobody finds the true limit of any car on the Nordschleife in only 3 laps. Also observe that Porsche's best time for the 997.1 Turbo is some 14-16 seconds better than HvS's. He also supertested the GT-R without its active handling systems disabled. This will make the car slower in the hands of someone who's really experienced with the car.
Back in 2007, while lapping in the same session as Nissan's chief test driver in the mules, he was slower by 12 seconds too.

[Guibo]

Watch The Stig trying to come to grips with the GT-R:

Randy Pobst, a professional race car driver, after testing the GT-R at Laguna Seca:
"'While it predominately understeers slightly, it can easily be provoked into snap oversteer. That was fun, but the GT-R is violent when it breaks loose.
The 'R' mode really isn't a race mode-there's still a lot of stability control working, which is fine for the average guy but frustrating for me as a race driver. And before you turn stability control completely off, boy, you'd better have a lot of car-control clinics under your belt.'

Pobst wasn't blown away by Godzilla, ranking it only fifth due to a tendency to snap into oversteer at the limit (a behavior easily mitigated by not switching off the various stability systems). The rest of us, though, came away from our handling test thoroughly bowled over by the Nissan GT-R (2nd place). A review of the numbers shows high finishes everywhere: third in ride quality, fastest lane change, fifth in step-steer reaction time, quickest off-center steering response, a near-textbook figure-eight trace. Nissan's computerized, all-wheel-drive superstar works wonders, delivering lofty performance numbers and the deft handling feel that enthusiasts crave. So why didn't it win? As noted, its limit behavior when its stability computers are sleeping can be tricky..."

[JMD0977]

The time is very very real. Look at how much ground this thing covers per seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU0IfL14Ykw

[Cdnrockies]

It's amazing all the speculating and conjecture that goes on here.

Why does one car have to be "better than" the other? Who gives a shit if it's a second faster on the 'Ring or costs thousands more or less?

The GT2 RS is awesome...so is the GT-R...so is the ZR1...so is the LF A...and the Italia and the McLaren....blah, blah, blah.

Why can't people just appreciate cars as enthusiasts.....regardless of the marque? Cars at this level are all briliant in their own ways and people will buy whatever they feel like.

Most people here don't have enough cash to own most of these cars or even drive one.

[JMD0977]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

It's amazing all the speculating and conjecture that goes on here.

Why does one car have to be "better than" the other? Who gives a shit if it's a second faster on the 'Ring or costs thousands more or less?

The GT2 RS is awesome...so is the GT-R...so is the ZR1...so is the LF A...and the Italia and the McLaren....blah, blah, blah.

Why can't people just appreciate cars as enthusiasts.....regardless of the marque? Cars at this level are all briliant in their own ways and people will buy whatever they feel like.

Most people here don't have enough cash to own most of these cars or even drive one.

I have to say, that is one of the most educated and mature post, I have seen here in a VERY long time.

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

It's amazing all the speculating and conjecture that goes on here.

Why does one car have to be "better than" the other? Who gives a shit if it's a second faster on the 'Ring or costs thousands more or less?

The GT2 RS is awesome...so is the GT-R...so is the ZR1...so is the LF A...and the Italia and the McLaren....blah, blah, blah.

Why can't people just appreciate cars as enthusiasts.....regardless of the marque? Cars at this level are all briliant in their own ways and people will buy whatever they feel like.

Most people here don't have enough cash to own most of these cars or even drive one.

That's what people do as enthusiasts. You can't honestly believe that people will take each car for what it is without giving it serious considerations relative to other similar performance cars. If you were content with how the GT-R performs and how the accord performs without any comparisons to other cars in its league, then I wouldn't call you an enthusiast at all. No one is denying they are awesome cars, but that doesn't mean we can't have discussions about them. IF the car companies weren't in constant competition and comparing their cars to others, why, we probably wouldn't have these awesome cars we can just "appreciate."

[Guibo]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

It's amazing all the speculating and conjecture that goes on here.

Why does one car have to be "better than" the other? Who gives a shit if it's a second faster on the 'Ring or costs thousands more or less?

The GT2 RS is awesome...so is the GT-R...so is the ZR1...so is the LF A...and the Italia and the McLaren....blah, blah, blah.

Why can't people just appreciate cars as enthusiasts.....regardless of the marque? Cars at this level are all briliant in their own ways and people will buy whatever they feel like.

Most people here don't have enough cash to own most of these cars or even drive one.

+100

[graider]

one could also argue that horst had driven the 911 thousands of time and he was more use to the platform where as he never driven the gtr before and did a few laps in it. this explained why he couldn't extract the same time as nissan factory driver.

e.g. this is the same guy that managed 7:38 in the gtr and zr1. i mean are you serious? the zr1 is known for 7:26. with 650hp and 3250lbs. I seriously think he either bias toward porsche or not used to handling of the zr1.

Originally Posted by shift@red

Porsche claimed the GT2 ran 7:32 at the ring, when sport auto did their supertest, they were able to get 7:33. And a lot of times, sport auto is within a couple seconds (as long as the weather isnt miserable) of what the manuf. claims. Horst von Saurma, who does the sport auto tests is probably the best driver on the ring in the world, and is one hell of a driver.
I dont believe the arguement that they couldnt get all or damn near all the performance out of a car, ESPECIALLY the GTR. Reason being, the GTR makes everyone look great because its so easy to drive and does EVERYTHING for you. There is no reason that the guy who can drive the ring the best in the world and is also one of the best (former race car driver) drivers in the world cant extract nearly all of the GTR performance. I could see him being 3-5 second slower and saying, 'yes the gtr is capable of the time claimed', but when he is a good 20 seconds slower, its just nissan bs'ing their times and/or running a shorter track to get the times.



Exactly! Horst von saurma is the best and prob the most experienced 'ring' driver in the world. he is driving one of the easiest cars to drive out there and cant come close to the manuf. claim. Now its either horst cant drive or nissan is lying...and horst is still at the top of his game.

[graider]

Originally Posted by ben14142001

^ The one thing that confuses me about the GT-R is that the Spec-V was 8 seconds (!!!) slower than the stock one. That makes absolutely no sense.

i though the spec v was 7:22 which would be 7 secs faster than the standard gtr time of 7:29.