[Ramos]

Here is what the championship would look like if it had started on Round 8.
Pretty much when the rest of the teams caught up with the Double Diffuser Brawn. Starting with Round 8, Jenson no longer had the best car by a mile, he merely had a competitive car... Here are the standings from Round 8-16

Pos Driver Total Rounds 8-16
2 Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull) 74 45
5 Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) 49 40
6 Kimi Räikkönen (Ferrari) 48 39
3 Rubens Barrichello (Brawn) 72 37
4 Mark Webber (Red Bull) 61.5 34
1 Jenson Button (Brawn) 89 28
7 Nico Rosberg (Williams) 34.5 23
12 Heikki Kovalainen (McLaren) 22 18
9 Fernando Alonso (Renault) 26 15
13 Robert Kubica (BMW-Sauber)17 15
8 Jarno Trulli (Toyota) 30.5 11
10 Timo Glock (Toyota) 24 11
11 Felipe Massa (Ferrari) 22 11
14 Nick Heidfeld (BMW-Sauber) 15 9
15 Giancarlo Fisichella (Ferrari) 8 8
16 Adrian Sutil (Force India) 5 5
17 Sebastien Buemi (Toro Ro) 5 2
18 Sebastien Bourdais () 2 0
19 Kazuki Nakajima (Williams) 0 0
20 Nelson Piquet () 0 0
21 Alguersuari Jaime (Toro Ros 0 0
22 Kamui Kobayashi (Toyota) 0 0
23 Luca Badoer (Ferrari) 0 0
24 Romain Grosjean (Renault) 0 0
25 Vitantanio Liuzzi (Force In) 0 0

[G-Mach1]

I agree . I don't think he is a worthy champion. He was at the right place at the right time. I am sure give the advantage Brawn had over the other teams at the begining any one in Brwan car would have done the same or more.

[backtofront001]

That is exactly what I was thinking. Button performed so poorly once his car was not the fastest. It is what it is though, this is formula 1 and the car, team play a huge part in a drivers success. Button owes this to Ross Brawn (without whom he would be out of a drive), engineers (without whom he would not have had a competitive advantage) and the team in general.

[Ramos]

You have to give it up to Hamilton and Raikonnen who scored 40 and 39 points respectively since Round 8 with much improved cars, but no where near the performance of the Brawns and Red Bulls...

Dissapointments of the season: Barrichello and Webber who given equal equipment failed to match their respective teamates... Especially Rubben who seemed to be asleep for the first 8 races... Had he scored consistent 2nd places behind JB, he would have easily been the champion

[KANdaddy]

Its not like the Double Ds made his car fly. I still think he is worthy of the championship.

[Ramos]

Jenson's average points per race since Round 8 = 3.11
That's barely average of 6th place for each race !!

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by KANdaddy

Its not like the Double Ds made his car fly. I still think he is worthy of the championship.

As a matter of fact it did... I am almost certain anyone in this field (maybe even Luca Badoer) would have done well in Jenson's car for the first 8 races...

[MuchMoore]

At least he didn't break any of Michael's records...

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by MuchMoore

At least he didn't break any of Michael's records...

Actually .... he could still break the record for lowest number of points scored by a world champion since the current points system was introduced in 2003
if he finishes 6th or lower at Abu Dhabi

Since the introduction of current points scoring system in 2003 the point scores of F1 drivers champions varied from 93 points (Schumacher in 2003) to 148 (Schumacher in 2004). The world champions failed to reach 100 points mark only twice (Schumacher in 2003 and Hamilton in 2008).
There are only 3 drivers left to fight it out for 2009 title. With only 20 more points available the maximum they can reach is 105 points for Button, 91 points for Barrichello, 89 points for Vettel. Barrichello and Vettel have no longer chance to score more points than Schumacher in 2003. Jenson Button would have to score 8 points in next two races to at least equal Schumacher’s 2003 result

[backtofront001]

Button is by no means a bad driver, its just that he is not good either. I would have rather wanted to see Vettel or Barrichello take it. Vettel is enormously competitive and talented for his age and Barrichello is well, need I say more. Raikkonnen deserves a pat on his back for dealing with the uncompetitive Ferrari even after Ferrari declared that they would only be developing the 2010 car. He scored a couple of podiums and was competitive throughout with a car that was uncompetitive and hard to drive (just ask Fisi).

[MontegoblueE92]

Originally Posted by Ramos

As a matter of fact it did... I am almost certain anyone in this field (maybe even Luca Badoer) would have done well in Jenson's car for the first 8 races...

To be fair, Badoer couldn't even stay within a second per lap of the field when the F60 reached its peak.

I believe it was a combination of double diffusors and the other teams just having terrible cars at the beginning. Red Bull wasn't using the DD but Vettel was in 3rd in the Australian GP until Kubica tried to make the pass. BMW wasn't using a DD either. So you can't simplify an entire season to DDs.

The second half of the season, if Webber and Vettel could actually finish races in a consistent point-scoring position, there's no doubt in my mind RBR would've won. They had engine reliabilty issues and Webber couldn't qualify worth a damn.

To win a WDC, you need good, consistent driving, and a good, consistent car. Button had these, thus, he is the WDC. Button has finished in the points in every single race except in Belgium, where he had a DNF through no fault of his own. Who else has done that?

Looking at the past few WDCs, here's a breakdown of wins, DNFs, and finishes outside the points:

Driver Wins DNF Outside Point
Button 6 1 0
Hamilton 5 1 3
Raikkonen 6 2 0
Alonso('06) 7 2 0
Alonso('05) 7 2 1

So, he's not as bad as you're making him out to be. Whether his wins come at the same time or spread through the season, a win is a win.

[MontegoblueE92]

Originally Posted by Ramos

There are only 3 drivers left to fight it out for 2009 title. With only 20 more points available the maximum they can reach is 105 points for Button, 91 points for Barrichello, 89 points for Vettel. Barrichello and Vettel have no longer chance to score more points than Schumacher in 2003. Jenson Button would have to score 8 points in next two races to at least equal Schumacher’s 2003 result

Your scores are all off. Button has 89, Vettel has 74, and Barrichello has 72. There's only 10 points left to play for. So the scores could potentially top out at 99, 84, or 82. Button only needs 4 points, which is 5th place, to tie Schumacher's score.

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

So, he's not as bad as you're making him out to be. Whether his wins come at the same time or spread through the season, a win is a win.

Good points, he is not that bad, just a middle of the field driver who is deserving of being in F1, just not deserving of wearing the crown...

Wins coming at the same or spread out MAKE a big difference...

if all your wins come in the 1st seven races, and that is followed by 28 points from 9 races, that means you had a good car in the beginning, then the competition gained on you, and you could not do anything about it

Wins spread out throughout the season means consistant car and driver

Wins only towards the end of the season means you started with a bad car, and you led the team to improve the car until you crawled back to the top of the podium towards the end.

Which scenario would you rather have?

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

Your scores are all off. Button has 89, Vettel has 74, and Barrichello has 72. There's only 10 points left to play for. So the scores could potentially top out at 99, 84, or 82. Button only needs 4 points, which is 5th place, to tie Schumacher's score.

That was a quote from before Brazil, and yes if he is 6th or lower in Abu Dhabi, he will have the honours of being the champion with the lowest number of points scored in a season

[MontegoblueE92]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Good points, he is not that bad, just a middle of the field driver who is deserving of being in F1, just not deserving of wearing the crown...

Wins coming at the same or spread out MAKE a big difference...

if all your wins come in the 1st seven races, and that is followed by 28 points from 9 races, that means you had a good car in the beginning, then the competition gained on you, and you could not do anything about it

Wins spread out throughout the season means consistant car and driver

Wins only towards the end of the season means you started with a bad car, and you led the team to improve the car until you crawled back to the top of the podium towards the end.

Which scenario would you rather have?

You're seeing the scenarios how you want to see them. Why make stupid mistakes trying to push, (much like Hamilton did at Monza), when you can finish with points at a comfortable pace to consolidate your crown?

According to your 3 scenarios, nobody should win this season. Vettel won three races, all spread out. Barrichello has won two towards the end. Webber had a victory halfway and one now.

Who in your eyes is the WDC?

[Ramos]

Originally Posted by MontegoblueE92

You're seeing the scenarios how you want to see them. Why make stupid mistakes trying to push, (much like Hamilton did at Monza), when you can finish with points at a comfortable pace to consolidate your crown?

According to your 3 scenarios, nobody should win this season. Vettel won three races, all spread out. Barrichello has won two towards the end. Webber had a victory halfway and one now.

Who in your eyes is the WDC?

You are right, no one really stands out... But of the three, I would have to say Vettel only because he has shown the most talent and was plagued with reliability problems all year followed by either Lewis or Kimi who both did an amazing job with really bad cars all year

[MontegoblueE92]

Originally Posted by Ramos

You are right, no one really stands out... But of the three, I would have to say Vettel only because he has shown the most talent and was plagued with reliability problems all year followed by either Lewis or Kimi who both did an amazing job with really bad cars all year

I was rooting for Vettel out of the three contenders myself. But despite his DNF in Valencia which was not his fault, he only had three wins. He also had two DNFs (not including Valencia) and two finishes out of the points. So I don't believe he was more deserving than Button.

Vettel is still maturing. He made a few stupid mistakes. Australia for one. If he had given up position to Kubica, he would've finished third, giving him six points. Then, he would not have the ten spot grid penalty in Malaysia, so he would've started 3rd. That race was stopped due to rain, so he would've finished somewhere in the points. That could've made his season.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Winning is winning. That was in a movie. Can't remember the ricer movie.

[cakcelik]

Originally Posted by G-Mach1

I agree . I don't think he is a worthy champion. He was at the right place at the right time. I am sure give the advantage Brawn had over the other teams at the begining any one in Brwan car would have done the same or more.

I agree with you 100%

[Rto]

Brawn -> English team
Factory -> located in the UK
Ross Brawn (owner) -> English
Major sponsor -> Virgin (English)
Jenson -> English

Do u have any doubts who would win?

How many problems JB had on his pit stops thru out the season?
How many problems RB had???

After mid of season when other cars were even better than Brawn who scored 2 incredible victories? And an incredible pole position?

[E90SLAM]

So Round 1 thru 7 doesn't count anymore???



To me...this is called selective statistics....to pick part of the statistics in favor to your argument...If Vettel or Barrichello won this year...are they worthy champion??? we're gonna raise the question too...



Vettel didn't have a competitive car in the beginning of the season...and Barrichello had multiple mitakes of over-torquing his gearbox race starts....



Afterall....FIA World Champion is being decided with 17 races....with a certain amount of point available for grab...



its a like marathon...for the first 8-10 miles...the leader build up an insane gap...then in the last 10 miles...other runners are catching up....but whoever crosses the line first wins (as who can grab the MOST available points first)....



if we're using Bernie's medal system....Button would've win the champion months ago....

(Bernie should've be glad that didn't happen...)

[E90SLAM]

Originally Posted by G-Mach1

I agree . I don't think he is a worthy champion. He was at the right place at the right time. I am sure give the advantage Brawn had over the other teams at the begining any one in Brwan car would have done the same or more.

Then who should win this season???
Vettel??? who only got three wins???
Barrichello??? Who didn't perform the best out of BGP001 until Valencia???
Webber??? you've gotta be kidding me....
Hamilton??? Who complained the car is like a friggin boat...can't even keep up with the friggin Renault during Turkish GP....???
Raikkonen??? Who doesn't give a shit about almost everything and wearing a ridiculous big hat???

They're all great drivers....but Button took the most advantage in the beginning of the season while everyone struggle and laid down a very solid foundation towards today's champion....