[eaglerulez]

Hi there,

First time poster over here!

My Model 3 AWD lease will end next year and I will be looking to upgrade. I honestly thought there would be some more EV options available by now, but it looks like the most viable two for me are a Model 3 Performance and the i4 M50.

On paper the Model 3 looks to have the i4 beat. It's cheaper, has faster acceleration, longer range, and a more established charging network. However I am beginning to wear of the Tesla driving experience and in particular feel like the Model 3's are a little soul-less.

I know the i4 M50 isn't quite out yet, but I was curious if anyone had any insight into the following.

-How is the i4 M50's handling in comparison to the Model 3? I suspect the ride comfort is improved thanks to the more sophisticated air and adaptive dampers. However, the biggest issue I have with the Model 3 is how much of the car's weight and associated understeer I begin to feel when turning. I'm hopeful the i4 M50 can improve upon this, but am worried given that it is heavier.

-I am curious how the i4 M50 pulls from 60-100mph. The Model 3 really starts to peter out past 60mph, so if the i4 M50 pulls stronger on the highway, I personally would consider that to be a huge plus.

-Lastly I am curious if anyone has a sense of how "driver focused" the seating position may be in the i4 M50. The Model 3 feel very neutral towards the driver, so you don't feel all that special when driving it. If the i4 M50 has a more driver focused seating position, I think that would yield a big difference.

Thanks so much for all of the help and insight in advance!

[bavarianride]

Do check out the clip in post#1 of this thread @18:35.

https://bmwi.bimmerpost.com/forums/s....php?t=1884210

[Haywood]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Do check out the clip in post#1 of this thread @18:35.

https://bmwi.bimmerpost.com/forums/s....php?t=1884210

Then, you have to deal with the crappy quality inspection.

Tesla recalls nearly half a million cars due to dangerous defaults
https://mol.im/a/10355875

[spool twice]

I wouldn't put that much stock in that video in regards to handling. I say that because no where did he show footage of actual curvy road driving or even on a track.

A suspension feeling "soft" and the car having some body roll doesn't mean it's a bad thing for on-street spirited driving since you will always encounter non-smooth pavement in real-world situations when cornering.

My current car (M4cs) takes bumpy corners substantially better in comfort vs sport plus modes in spirited street driving.

With that being said, the weight difference alone of the M50 vs the Tesla would pretty much favor the Tesla in terms of handling in an ultimate track-day event. But for daily spirited driving on the road, I'm sure the M50 will be just fine, if not as nimble feeling as the Tesla.

[ZCD1]

The Model 3 Performance's lower, firmer suspension and better brakes and tires make a pretty significant difference in its driving feel compared to your AWD.

Understeer simply isn't an issue...and "track mode" allows adjustment of the front/rear power balance if you felt that was necessary...

As mentioned, there's no getting around the i4's extra 1000 lbs for handling dynamics, though its suspension sophistication will likely mask some of that extra mass...

[spool twice]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

The Model 3 Performance's lower, firmer suspension and better brakes and tires make a pretty significant difference in its driving feel compared to your AWD.

Understeer simply isn't an issue...and "track mode" allows adjustment of the front/rear power balance if you felt that was necessary...

As mentioned, there's no getting around the i4's extra 1000 lbs for handling dynamics, though its suspension sophistication will likely mask some of that extra mass...

I'd take a basic suspension over the air suspension though. Have you seen older BMW's on air suspension? Instant lowering, no reprogramming needed

side note, it's likely more apples-to-apples to compar DIN weight and not EURO weight since EURO adds 75kg out of thin air.

4883lbs vs 4072lbs is still significant regardless. Hopefully it's at least put to good use to make in other area's because we know it's not good for handling.

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by Haywood

Then, you have to deal with the crappy quality inspection.

Tesla recalls nearly half a million cars due to dangerous defaults
https://mol.im/a/10355875

while I agree 100% with the lack of QC at Tesla, which is frustrating.... all manufacturers have dealt with recalls.... so this isn't a big deal to me.

[KoenG]

Both cars are epic.

I'd had the pleasure to drive the M3P a year back and it felt light and nimble. The M3P has sufficient grunt to keep it going also strong beyond 60mph. Confidence for fast driving was installed immediately. On the other hand, interior and ergonomics are only average. Nevertheless, efficiency is better because of lower weight, you'll get more miles out of every kWh.

The i4, I could only experience static in the show room. It seems to me to be the more complete car, better built, better ergonomics. I'd rate it an entirely class higher. When you aim for a M50, I can't imagine that performance or driving dynamics will be a problem. M engineering has tuned the suspension.

When I'd be in the market for one of these, I'd suffer from the same dilemma but I'am still inclined to favorize the BMW inspite it's a bit more expensive. On a daily basis, I'd just expect a better owner experience and a better ride on public roads.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by eaglerulez

Hi there,

First time poster over here!

My Model 3 AWD lease will end next year and I will be looking to upgrade. I honestly thought there would be some more EV options available by now, but it looks like the most viable two for me are a Model 3 Performance and the i4 M50.

On paper the Model 3 looks to have the i4 beat. It's cheaper, has faster acceleration, longer range, and a more established charging network. However I am beginning to wear of the Tesla driving experience and in particular feel like the Model 3's are a little soul-less.

I know the i4 M50 isn't quite out yet, but I was curious if anyone had any insight into the following.

-How is the i4 M50's handling in comparison to the Model 3? I suspect the ride comfort is improved thanks to the more sophisticated air and adaptive dampers. However, the biggest issue I have with the Model 3 is how much of the car's weight and associated understeer I begin to feel when turning. I'm hopeful the i4 M50 can improve upon this, but am worried given that it is heavier.

-I am curious how the i4 M50 pulls from 60-100mph. The Model 3 really starts to peter out past 60mph, so if the i4 M50 pulls stronger on the highway, I personally would consider that to be a huge plus.

-Lastly I am curious if anyone has a sense of how "driver focused" the seating position may be in the i4 M50. The Model 3 feel very neutral towards the driver, so you don't feel all that special when driving it. If the i4 M50 has a more driver focused seating position, I think that would yield a big difference.

Thanks so much for all of the help and insight in advance!

Did you see the carwow drag race just out. Yes a drag race so little to with handling but I couldn't believe the i4 was 400kh heavier. That can't help handling and it did indeed hamper the brake test.

No bad cars just differing options as on offer.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Did you see the carwow drag race just out. Yes a drag race so little to with handling but I couldn't believe the i4 was 400kh heavier. That can't help handling and it did indeed hamper the brake test.

No bad cars just differing options as on offer.

That was interesting. In a real life test the Tesla doesn't beat the i4 M50. The only question I have about the breaking was M50 set up for max Regen?

Anyway, it proves what I had on paper. The power and toque to weight ratios are so close it's going to be driver reaction time.

[eaglerulez]

Originally Posted by JustChris

Did you see the carwow drag race just out. Yes a drag race so little to with handling but I couldn't believe the i4 was 400kh heavier. That can't help handling and it did indeed hamper the brake test.

No bad cars just differing options as on offer.

Yeah, really interesting results. I was a little worried that the i4 M50 would feel a little down on power compared to the Model 3 Performance but looks like that's not the case and results will be more margin of error type stuff. So that's a positive!

To me this makes the difference in driving dynamics to be a pretty key differentiator and hopefully we can get a comparison there soon.

[DBV1]

Originally Posted by BimmerBahn

while I agree 100% with the lack of QC at Tesla, which is frustrating.... all manufacturers have dealt with recalls.... so this isn't a big deal to me.

Totally agree with you. Get tried of hearing about Tesla issues/recalls. They all have one. We just got one for our 2018 BMW X5d. People seem to just enjoy bashing other car companies.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by DBV1

Totally agree with you. Get tried of hearing about Tesla issues/recalls. They all have one. We just got one for our 2018 BMW X5d. People seem to just enjoy bashing other car companies.

Have you ever had to go through 4 cars to get a decent one? That's my best friend and getting a Model 3 last year.

Recalls aren't an issue. My Bolt has an open recall.
QC problems at delivery IS a big deal. When you see paint so bad that the car should have never left the factory or panel gap issues so bad you can see them with the naked eye. That is a problem and Tesla has those.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by DBV1

Totally agree with you. Get tried of hearing about Tesla issues/recalls. They all have one. We just got one for our 2018 BMW X5d. People seem to just enjoy bashing other car companies.

My opinion on this subject is that prospective Tesla customers do, and should, expect premium QC and paint and panel gaps comparable to other premium brands.

Since Tesla cannot consistently deliver those, Tesla customers really should adjust the FMVs.

E.g. at the current QC and paint and such, I am willing to pay $25k-$30k + tax + fee on a Model 3 SR+ and its current gen of driver and battery techs and range.

It is similar to buying iOS/Android phones from big techs vs. non-premium brands, which cannot command same price points as iPhone/Samsung(e.g.)

[finn123]

In Europe, you can get VW id4 for the same price as Tesla 3 (probably, I should compare with Tesla Y as ID4 is actually a SUV), but with way higher quality and better materials. Of course, it doesn’t have the power Tesla offers, but there are very few people who really want that. Thus, I don’t see any reasons why one wants to pay for Ilon Musk’s bad product, which is simply a poorly assembled iPad on wheels…

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Have you ever had to go through 4 cars to get a decent one? That's my best friend and getting a Model 3 last year.

Recalls aren't an issue. My Bolt has an open recall.
QC problems at delivery IS a big deal. When you see paint so bad that the car should have never left the factory or panel gap issues so bad you can see them with the naked eye. That is a problem and Tesla has those.

Oh yeah, I’m with you 100% Tesla paint is trash….I was lucky in that my delivery back in 2019 went pretty well..no real issues…. But that was also before these EOQ pushes they do…. So worried about increasing numbers they let shit out that would never pass at a legacy auto’s factory.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by eaglerulez

Hi there,

First time poster over here!

My Model 3 AWD lease will end next year and I will be looking to upgrade. I honestly thought there would be some more EV options available by now, but it looks like the most viable two for me are a Model 3 Performance and the i4 M50.

On paper the Model 3 looks to have the i4 beat. It's cheaper, has faster acceleration, longer range, and a more established charging network. However I am beginning to wear of the Tesla driving experience and in particular feel like the Model 3's are a little soul-less.

I know the i4 M50 isn't quite out yet, but I was curious if anyone had any insight into the following.

-How is the i4 M50's handling in comparison to the Model 3? I suspect the ride comfort is improved thanks to the more sophisticated air and adaptive dampers. However, the biggest issue I have with the Model 3 is how much of the car's weight and associated understeer I begin to feel when turning. I'm hopeful the i4 M50 can improve upon this, but am worried given that it is heavier.

-I am curious how the i4 M50 pulls from 60-100mph. The Model 3 really starts to peter out past 60mph, so if the i4 M50 pulls stronger on the highway, I personally would consider that to be a huge plus.

-Lastly I am curious if anyone has a sense of how "driver focused" the seating position may be in the i4 M50. The Model 3 feel very neutral towards the driver, so you don't feel all that special when driving it. If the i4 M50 has a more driver focused seating position, I think that would yield a big difference.

Thanks so much for all of the help and insight in advance!

i4 has a much better built, the interior and quality is at a completely different level; it has more comfort, more refinement, and surely better reliability and driving dynamics. (it's heavier, but it's built by people who knows what 'driving dynamics' is. By engineers who have bigger ambitions than 0-60 or 'frunk')
Comparing i4 m50 to Model 3 is kind of like comparing a 3 series to a Corolla. Sure, Corolla is more utilitarian and cheaper to run, and you can get a bumper for $100 from a shop around the corner. But that doesn't mean it compares to 3 series in any relevant way.
(Maybe I'm being unfair to Toyota thought, even their cars are better built than all Teslas)

Last but not least, forget about the numbers, IRL i4 will always be faster. It will be easier to drive fast, it will feel more secure and planted, you won't roll around in Tesla's bolster-less vinyl feeling seats. And BMW always underrates their numbers. M3P is supposed to be 3.1s to 60 whereas i4 50 3.7s. BUT, here you go: https://bmwi.bimmerpost.com/forums/s....php?t=1887373

As a result, there is almost nothing to compare between them. Model 3 and Model Y are kind of like Civic and RAV4 of the future, and definitely don't deserve a dime above $40K. i4 is the 3 series of the future and, IMO, it deserves the $70K+ they're asking for...

[ZCD1]

UK magazine "CAR" compares the i4M50, M4 Competition and Tesla Model 3 Performance in the February 2022 issue.

They say the M4 Competition is in a league of its own, while far more expensive.

Between the i4M50 and Model 3 they say the Model 3P is faster in real life and more fun to drive, though the i4 is solid and secure.

They criticized the i4's understeer when pushed hard, and the Tesla's less-solid build.

They say that they'd choose the i4 eDrive 40 over the M50, but that the Model 3 LR would be their choice of EV in this class.

(Article isn't on-line yet)

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

UK magazine "CAR" compares the i4M50, M4 Competition and Tesla Model 3 Performance in the February 2022 issue.

They say the M4 Competition is in a league of its own, while far more expensive.

Between the i4M50 and Model 3 they say the Model 3P is faster in real life and more fun to drive, though the i4 is solid and secure.

They criticized the i4's understeer when pushed hard, and the Tesla's less-solid build.

They say that they'd choose the i4 eDrive 40 over the M50, but that the Model 3 LR would be their choice of EV in this class.

(Article isn't on-line yet)

And they would probably pick the Honda Civic over all of them. Weighing 1000lbs more, the BMW Horses have to be much healthier than the ones in the the Tesla M3P. Dragtimes just got 3.1 0-60 w/1 ft roll out. BMW underrates their performance significantly to say the least. There is no way I would be half as excited to drive a Model 3LR over an M50. How many youtube reviews have you seen raving about the Model 3LR over a M3P or much less, over an i4 M50?

View post on imgur.com

[spool twice]

It makes me wonder if BMW tuned the throttle to be typical BMW, meaning that instead of instantaneous ramp up, they allow for immediate throttle response, followed by a "wave", in otherwords, they ramp it up to 50% or 60% to avoid drivetrain shock?

[spool twice]

He actually does mentioned there is some gas pedal lag on the M50 in comparison to the TM3P, makes sense since it's always been a BMW thing to have immediate but soft initial response followed by a wave of power you requested a split second later:

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by spool twice

He actually does mentioned there is some gas pedal lag on the M50 in comparison to the TM3P, makes sense since it's always been a BMW thing to have immediate but soft initial response followed by a wave of power you requested a split second later:

My E90 had non linear throttle.
It took lots of initial pedal to move the car.
I remapped the pedal to be linear. It was a lot more fun to drive and the pedal felt more.connected.