[flybigjet]

Pretty interesting read. BMW's (2/4 series) at the top of the list!

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...aboolaexternal

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

BMW's (2/4 series) at the top of the list!

The "list" is alphabetical.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

The "list" is alphabetical.

That's true-- but when you go to the list, you see a great big picture of a M2C at the top of the page.

Which is nice.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Damn the new Genesis sedan has it? Interesting!

[KennyFSU]

Very cool, I didn't even know they still made the Fit.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Damn the new Genesis sedan has it? Interesting!

I watched the show Everday Driver this morning and they were drivibg/comparing the Genesis, Alfa, and new 3 series.

At the price range, the Alfa and 3 series were basic options while the Genesis had pretty much everything offered.....including basically the "Stinger" engine. One guy picked the 3 series mainly out of nostalgia even though they both admitted the car had no driver feedback.

The other guy picked the Genesis as the most fun for him for a sedan that felt more involved.

Both feared the Alfa reliability.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Rmtt

I watched the show Everday Driver this morning and they were drivibg/comparing the Genesis, Alfa, and new 3 series.

At the price range, the Alfa and 3 series were basic options while the Genesis had pretty much everything offered.....including basically the "Stinger" engine. One guy picked the 3 series mainly out of nostalgia even though they both admitted the car had no driver feedback.

The other guy picked the Genesis as the most fun for him for a sedan that felt more involved.

Both feared the Alfa reliability.

Oh I didn't realise that G70 was like on 3 series level. I thought they only had one it was like S class type.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Oh I didn't realise that G70 was like on 3 series level. I thought they only had one it was like S class type.

Yeah....here is an article on it unless I have it confused. But power at 365/376 and almost every option put it in the price range of the others they were testing.

https://www.caranddriver.com/genesis/g70

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Rmtt

Yeah....here is an article on it unless I have it confused. But power at 365/376 and almost every option put it in the price range of the others they were testing.

https://www.caranddriver.com/genesis/g70

Except that motor isn't available with a manual, only the 255hp, 2.0L four cylinder.

[Rmtt]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Except that motor isn't available with a manual, only the 255hp, 2.0L four cylinder.

I remember the car they were testing....I think they did have shift paddles. Didn't realize that model wasn't available with a MT.

But if I recall correctly, the guy was mentioning how odd it was to not have to move the shifter into a different position to select the paddles for use.

[5.M0NSTER]

I wish this list was longer. We have to save the manual. It’s up to all of us.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

I wish this list was longer. We have to save the manual. It’s up to all of us.

I've never owned an AT in my life.

My wife just got her first last year (to replace her MT Speed3)-- an Acura RDX.

Currently, we have three MT's in addition to her RDX-- a Honda Element (mine), M2C (mine) and a Miata RF (hers).

R.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER

I wish this list was longer. We have to save the manual. It’s up to all of us.

Uhhh, no it's not.

#Emissions
#PlatformShareMuch
#ThreePercenter
#MyKidCantDriveAStickBecauseMyKidCantDriveAtAll
#UseYourPaddles

Besides: Wanna be slower? Drive a manual. That's just reality these days. About the only thing a manual's good for these days is drifting.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

About the only thing a manual's good for these days is drifting.

Or, you know-- actually being *engaged* in the driving of the car and enjoying the interface between driver and machinery, and the skill required thereof.

And I'm not just talking on a track or as a pro driver. Go park/unpark on a hill, drive in bumper-to-bumper traffic or on a twisting road with a lot of high-radius turns-- any idiot can do that with an AT-- but it takes patience and skill to do those things *well* with a MT.

My buddy has two high-school aged fraternal twins-- one took to driving a MT like a fish to water, and the other can barely handle driving to school with an AT without causing an accident-- and he's supposedly the "smart" one of the two.

Personally? I think it's a different mindset in what you want out of the driving experience as much as a mechanical difference.

I'm not much interested that a AT may be .2 seconds faster than a MT-- but I look at it more as a "Yaaaaawn, I guess I'll mosey to the store" vice "Honey-- got any errands for me to run? It's a beautiful day and the mountain twisties are calling my name!"

If I didn't want to row the gears and be engaged in driving for the enjoyment of it, I'd have bought an iPad w/ wheels (i.e. a Tesla 3P) instead of an M2C.

Just my 0.02.

R.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Uhhh, no it's not.

#Emissions
#PlatformShareMuch
#ThreePercenter
#MyKidCantDriveAStickBecauseMyKidCantDriveAtAll
#UseYourPaddles

Besides: Wanna be slower? Drive a manual. That's just reality these days. About the only thing a manual's good for these days is drifting.

I don't mean to judge, but wanna be a puzzy? Drive with paddles.

The rest of us want to actually be involved in the experience.

Oh, and Like Father, like ... whateverthefuckyouhave. How can your kid know any better if you're a $$$%%##&&&&&

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Uhhh, no it's not.

#Emissions
#PlatformShareMuch
#ThreePercenter
#MyKidCantDriveAStickBecauseMyKidCantDriveAtAll
#UseYourPaddles

Besides: Wanna be slower? Drive a manual. That's just reality these days. About the only thing a manual's good for these days is drifting.

Meh, I think you realize there are dollar signs at the end of the rainbow. Porsche knows this. Mazda, Jeep, Honda and a tiny little percentage at VW too.

The primary reason I don't own a BMW anymore is because I couldn't get a wagon with a manual. Now it's down to an M2 or M3, both of which have serious drawbacks for me.

I'll just take my manual from someone else. And while it's true that manuals are slower than flappy paddles, the mileage thing isn't something I have seen correlation with. I consistently clobber my window sticker numbers with a manual but always seem to be lower or right at the numbers with my wife's automatics.

And even though she's pretty much always had a faster car than mine, we almost never drive hers on the weekends. Automatics suck. It's really that simple.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Automatics suck. It's really that simple.

.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by flybigjet

.

That about sums it up!

[Conissah]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Uhhh, no it's not.

#Emissions
#PlatformShareMuch
#ThreePercenter
#MyKidCantDriveAStickBecauseMyKidCantDriveAtAll
#UseYourPaddles

Besides: Wanna be slower? Drive a manual. That's just reality these days. About the only thing a manual's good for these days is drifting.

All 3 of my vehicles are manual... Only thing's Ill own that AREN'T manual will be SUV's, and that's because they don't make them. My #1 criteria when searching for a car is the man pedal. Funny enough, my 5'1" fiance wants a 981, wouldn't it be a shame if hers has the man pedal and yours doesn't...

In all seriousness though, autos are faster around a track, and from 0-60, sure, but you can't beat the fun of an actual manual car. It's an entirely different experience from a simulated manual, and the PDK, as good as it is, would NOT be my tranny of choice in a 981, 718, 991.2, etc. #savethemanuals

Lastly, and most importantly, natural theft deterrent. /rant

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Meh, I think you realize there are dollar signs at the end of the rainbow. Porsche knows this. Mazda, Jeep, Honda and a tiny little percentage at VW too.

Not when it costs more to develop -- or, as is almost always the case now, source from a third-party manufacturer -- and certify a manual transmission vehicle than it is to offer it as an option in the first place. THAT is the biggest reason they're disappearing: simple cost effectiveness, combined with supply and demand. Demand has fallen to below four percent worldwide. Again: WORLDWIDE. That's a function of several factors conspiring to kill them.

@5.M0NSTER flybigjet I'd only owned manuals until three cars ago. I'm nearly 50. I get the allure, and the advantages. However, I've joined the 21st Century ... and, to bring this back to the OP's topic, it means I can consider far more cars as my next one because I've learned to appreciate them, and use them to engage with my car. My advice is to stop resisting and start learning the new way.

EDIT: I'm old enough to remember when folks said the same things about things like carburetion, power windows, and chokes -- much less CD players, analog electromechanical gauges, and manual A/C controls. All of those things save the CD player helped one be more 'a part of' a car.

Some newfangled stuff simply isn't better. Manual, hydraulic-assisted steering, for example, will always be better than the steer-by-wire of today, which is another example of cost effectiveness superseding consumer preference to the point of extinguishing the former. But it's proven that modern high-performance auto transmissions are better in almost every regard than any manual.

You're not going to save them. There simply being phased out by economics, by culture, by governments, by pretty much everyone except old-school performance enthusiasts. And how much influence do you have in the grand scheme of the current auto industry? Zero, nada, zilch, none.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Uhhh, no it's not.

#Emissions
#PlatformShareMuch
#ThreePercenter
#MyKidCantDriveAStickBecauseMyKidCantDriveAtAll
#UseYourPaddles

Besides: Wanna be slower? Drive a manual. That's just reality these days. About the only thing a manual's good for these days is drifting.

Hah, I actually thought about this. This topic is so similar to the Subaru one that I figured I'd just tie my hatred of autos and awd together. My mom can drive a GTR fast. I'd assume the delta between an automatic, awd sports car between a pro driver and a rank novice is much smaller than comparing a manual two wheel drive car.

I'm no pro, not even close. I have a few laps of the N'Ring and a few stateside tracks, but that's about it. But for those moments that I get it all right through a canyon road, it's a lot more rewarding to know that I actually had something to do with it than a bunch of computers. Even more fun to know that the diff not exploding or the suspension not shooting out the top of the mounts was because I didn't jack up the maintenance either.

Maybe it's that I'm comfortable wrenching on manuals and one driven end and not autos and awd setups, but I'm okay with that. Still plenty of choices out there, and I don't see those choices really diminishing over the coming years.

Although emergency braking and a manual does provide some interesting fun.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by Conissah

All 3 of my vehicles are manual... Only thing's Ill own that AREN'T manual will be SUV's, and that's because they don't make them. My #1 criteria when searching for a car is the man pedal. Funny enough, my 5'1" fiance wants a 981, wouldn't it be a shame if hers has the man pedal and yours doesn't...

In all seriousness though, autos are faster around a track, and from 0-60, sure, but you can't beat the fun of an actual manual car. It's an entirely different experience from a simulated manual, and the PDK, as good as it is, would NOT be my tranny of choice in a 981, 718, 991.2, etc. #savethemanuals

Lastly, and most importantly, natural theft deterrent. /rant

I do tend to get a bit aggressive in these type of threads. Thank you for being level headed.