[The Wind Breezes]

TL;DR: is a high IQ car club a good or bad idea, and what should the cutoff be?

I live in a major city and there is always a car, truck or bike meet going on every night of the week. Some of them are gigantic with hundreds of participants and all the dumb shit that accompanies a group like that. It should go without saying that the things these people do, could be done better and more safely.

So, for a thought exercise let's consider a car club where entrants must meet a minimum level of intelligence. This brings us to the first issue, which is that it's unclear what cutoff would make the most sense: it's best to be as inclusive as possible but the most interesting things tend to happen well inside the top 1% of ability which would probably be way too restrictive even in my large city.

How can you screen people? Many potential candidates will have already taken a intelligence test with high g-loading, including the AFQT, SAT, and standard IQ tests. Not all prospects will have taken one of these tests but it's disproportionately likely that the very bright will have taken at least a SAT as those people are very likely to try college. SAT is not as heavily g-loaded as you would like, but there may not be any realistic alternatives.

Let's return to car meets. What's the point of a car meet? Sure, there's the show, the meet and greet, the brag, the trading. But, the interesting things are the hooliganism and street racing. The problem with current car meets is the people doing this stuff appear to have little to no concern for the consequences of their actions and proceed accordingly.

The advantages of picking a group of hooligans and street racers from the top centiles (or top centile) of cognitive ability are obvious: for a given degree of driving skill, and with a little planning, these folks are likely to get away with doing some really crazy shit, while drawing less attention to their activities. Reasons for this include better judgement, greater knowledge of police procedure, and considerably more robust employment of technology to defeat radar, lidar, and even track the helicopter. That custom configured, homebuilt autonomous aircraft could be used to help or even supplant spotters goes without saying. The idea is to avoid scrutiny, not evade the authorities after they make contact.

That all sounds pretty good until you realize that what's being described is a criminal conspiracy. So are regular car meets, but the degree of poor organization and large quantities low-hanging fruit means the cops don't need (or care) to go there. Yet. So, the paradox: although the highly intelligent are, ceteris paribus, much better suited to carry out the kind of "action" that goes on at a car meet, they are also much less likely to ignore the potential consequences of participating in what is essentially a crime ring, and would probably be...uninterested in participating. The whole thing falls apart. That's not to say that these smart people would necessarily be against a little hoonage as long as it is more loosely organized.

I am interested to hear what the forums think of a car club of the cognitive elite that does NOT make an effort to significantly organize illegal stuff. Would there be any point to it, or would it be a bunch of dry, self-interested autists blathering on about the powerpc instruction set or exactly how many microliters per stroke are ideal for a LS1?

What should the cutoff be for a high IQ car club? Is it a good, bad, or terrible idea? I'm leaning toward terrible. Your thoughts are welcome.

[Germanauto]

[ASAP]

I personally think that car meets and their overall value are a dying breed...

It used to be enthusiasts would come out and discuss mods and different cars etc...

Now it's really either a bunch of clowns that make everything look bad or the richer guys where the meet is really a round jerk off session for guys wearing Gucci glasses and ripped jeans. At least this is what I see in Miami... just my $.02... havent been to a meet in ages and personally I think the automotive culture at this point is completely overplayed... with Instagram, youtube and overall media there are two many so called experts and opinions from people that really dont' know anything... that it's almost not worth even remotely dabbling in. I don't even mod my cars anymore outside of maybe a tune as I prefer a ready out the box setup.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Now it's really either a bunch of clowns that make everything look bad or the richer guys where the meet is really a round jerk off session for guys wearing Gucci glasses and ripped jeans.

Absolutely nailed it. The good people have seen themselves out of the car meet scene, hence the thought exercise in the OP.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Absolutely nailed it. The good people have seen themselves out of the car meet scene, hence the thought exercise in the OP.

Let's just say back in my younger days in 2012, we would all meet up with others from a BMW club and discuss mods, what someone did to their car or what someone would do their cars, recommendations, as well as helping others fix issues with their cars (if needed). This was back when we would read car and driver and discuss it... etc etc... but this was also before BMW slapped an M badge on everything and was more of a niche brand.... in my honest opinion, 99% of the car culture now is simply showing off, nothing else.

[SakhirM4]

After 38 years of BMW CCA membership and 27 years as the Tejas Chapter president, I will say that my car club experience is nothing like what you describe. It has been a great experience with wonderful people who all are BMW enthusiasts. The members have come from all walks of life and all life experiences. Nothing we have done has ever been illegal and we have had fantastic events.

I have also had a good experience being a member of ZSCCA and M Gruppe.

Sorry that your experience with car clubs has been so negative.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Let's just say back in my younger days in 2012, we would all meet up with others from a BMW club and discuss mods, what someone did to their car or what someone would do their cars, recommendations, as well as helping others fix issues with their cars (if needed). This was back when we would read car and driver and discuss it... etc etc... but this was also before BMW slapped an M badge on everything and was more of a niche brand.... in my honest opinion, 99% of the car culture now is simply showing off, nothing else.

BMW had a niche reputation much earlier in the late 80s and early 90s when it was "the" car of the Yuppie movement. Also BMW has been putting M badges on its cars well before the current day. My 1986 325es had M badges all over it from the factory. Was it an M3? No. Did anyone confuse it with an M3? No way.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

After 38 years of BMW CCA membership and 27 years as the Tejas Chapter president, I will say that my car club experience is nothing like what you describe. It has been a great experience with wonderful people who all are BMW enthusiasts. The members have come from all walks of life and all life experiences. Nothing we have done has ever been illegal and we have had fantastic events.

I have also had a good experience being a member of ZSCCA and M Gruppe.

Sorry that your experience with car clubs has been so negative.

Dude the CCA is a completely different crowd... and not one (no offense) that is exactly filled with younger people.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

BMW had a niche reputation much earlier in the late 80s and early 90s when it was "the" car of the Yuppie movement. Also BMW has been putting M badges on its cars well before the current day. My 1986 325es had M badges all over it from the factory. Was it an M3? No. Did anyone confuse it with an M3? No way.

I don't think in 1986, BMW had 30 different version of every model and a lineup that is comprised of 1-8 and X2 to X7.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Nothing we have done has ever been illegal and we have had fantastic events.(

Seriously, you guys have never even done 5 over? None of the cars have emissions gear removed? I don't believe it, and in any case that sounds boring as hell and just as bad as the car clubs in the OP.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Dude the CCA is a completely different crowd... and not one (no offense) that is exactly filled with younger people.

We have quite a few young people that are active in our chapter. Their cars, however, may be a little older

This photo was a group of them at one of our recent events.

[Blackscreen67]

Drive by wire and the average users inability to even understand the workings of their car = the death of car clubs.

[The Wind Breezes]

We are getting really off topic. The main questions are, is a car club for the most intelligent a good idea, and what would the cutoff be? Top 5%? Top 1%?

Originally Posted by Blackscreen67

Drive by wire and the average users inability to even understand the workings of their car = the death of car clubs.

Taking this statement--which I don't totally agree with--at face value, this is one reason why a high IQ car club would be a good idea.

[Poiseuille]

Oddly, the premise of this thread has reminded me of one of my favorite William F Buckley Jr. quotes: "I would rather be governed by the first 2000 names in the Boston phonebook then by the faculty of Harvard University".

[Blackscreen67]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

We are getting really off topic. The main questions are, is a car club for the most intelligent a good idea, and what would the cutoff be? Top 5%? Top 1%?



Taking this statement--which I don't totally agree with--at face value, this is one reason why a high IQ car club would be a good idea.

What are you defining as IQ?

My ex wife's cousin was a Bill Gates scholarship recipient, undergrad at Cambridge and PHD at UT for bio-engineering with an emphasis in studies of delivery of pharmaceuticals and constructing alternative pathways of delivery.....

Yet the man literally had no clue how to change oil on a car.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

We are getting really off topic. The main questions are, is a car club for the most intelligent a good idea, and what would the cutoff be? Top 5%? Top 1%?



Taking this statement--which I don't totally agree with--at face value, this is one reason why a high IQ car club would be a good idea.

Taking it back on topic - IMHO that is a terrible idea. Sounds like MENSA for car enthusiasts. Talk about boring. I like our group just the way it is: married & single; young and old; intelligent and average; wealthy and not wealthy; educated and uneducated; etc. All we really have in common is that we are BMW enthusiasts and enjoy people. We have great events.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by Blackscreen67

What are you defining as IQ?

My ex wife's cousin was a Bill Gates scholarship recipient, undergrad at Cambridge and PHD at UT for bio-engineering with an emphasis in studies of delivery of pharmaceuticals and constructing alternative pathways of delivery.....

Yet the man literally had no clue how to change oil on a car.

IQ is the best approximation we can come up with for what people refer to colloquially as intelligence or being smart. While everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, general intelligence correlates very highly with IQ.

If your ex wife's cousin did all that stuff, he clearly has way, way more than the minimum intelligence required to learn to change his car's oil. It's most likely that cars just didn't interest him; his mind was elsewhere doing more "important" things like his research. Mechanical experience is a learned skill. That guy could certainly learn a lot about cars very quickly if he cared to.

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Taking it back on topic - IMHO that is a terrible idea. Sounds like MENSA for car enthusiasts. Talk about boring. I like our group just the way it is: married & single; young and old; intelligent and average; wealthy and not wealthy; educated and uneducated; etc. All we really have in common is that we are BMW enthusiasts and enjoy people. We have great events.

I don't disagree. It could be a disaster. In any event, we clearly consider very different types of car club experience to be ideal.

[DDD31]

Why stop at car clubs, how bout high IQ car forums?

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

IQ is the best approximation we can come up with for what people refer to colloquially as intelligence or being smart. While everyone has different strengths and weaknesses, general intelligence correlates very highly with IQ.

If your ex wife's cousin did all that stuff, he clearly has way, way more than the minimum intelligence required to learn to change his car's oil. It's most likely that cars just didn't interest him; his mind was elsewhere doing more "important" things like his research. Mechanical experience is a learned skill. That guy could certainly learn a lot about cars very quickly if he cared to.



I don't disagree. It could be a disaster. In any event, we clearly consider very different types of car club experience to be ideal.

What is your ideal car club experience?

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by DDD31

Why stop at car clubs, how bout high IQ car forums?

Probably a bad idea for the same reason as a high IQ car club: it would self-select for people who are way up their own ass. High IQ car forums exist, but they're mostly limited to topics like firmware disassembly and other reverse engineering, writing custom code, and those sort of specialized things most people would see as difficult or impossible. Regular car topics tend not to be that interesting to the highly intelligent because there's no challenge.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by The Wind Breezes

Probably a bad idea for the same reason as a high IQ car club: it would self-select for people who are way up their own ass. High IQ car forums exist, but they're mostly limited to topics like firmware disassembly and other reverse engineering, writing custom code, and those sort of specialized things most people would see as difficult or impossible. Regular car topics tend not to be that interesting to the highly intelligent because there's no challenge.

I have a 146 IQ and enjoy many mundane things just fine.

[The Wind Breezes]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I have a 146 IQ and enjoy many mundane things just fine.

For someone purporting to be in the top 1/10th of 1% (given a standard deviation of 15) the apparent lack of reading comprehension is surprising. I said that there is a tendency for smart people to prefer a challenge. Trends have lots of exceptions.

As for my conception of the ideal car club, I think that's made pretty clear in the OP.