[Mr. Hankey]

Hey all, looking for some help here...sorry if you were ever in the situation I'm describing:

My father passed away rather unexpectedly just before Thanksgiving. He had a leased 528ix with about 1 year remaining on the lease, he is the only person on the lease agreement. I called BMWFS 3 days after his death and was specifically told by them that they would "take the car back and charge usual fees after inspection for damages" that they usually do upon return of a vehicle coming off lease. Was told I would need to provide them a copy of his will, death certificate, and provide them a dealership name where I will be returning the vehicle. I did that several days later and returned the car to the named dealership where he leased all his vehicles. Dealership was fantastic, especially with dealing with my mom, and told her this was how BMW handles leases in the event of death of a lesee. Figured that is fantastic, I love this company, thanks for taking that burden away from me (car in pristine condition because by dad would wash and wax the thing every week).

That was 4 weeks ago. Fast forward to today. My mom was called by BMW collections. My dad missed 1 payment (early December, car was turned into dealer 2 weeks prior). She informed them of his death and was told by the person that because she turned the car into the dealer BMW then that is "voluntary repossession" and BMW would then be forced to auction it off and if sold for less than its "value" then she will be responsible for the difference which will likely be in excess of $10,000. He other options would be to sell the car herself, resume the lease, or trade it in on a new lease or purchase.

This significantly upset her obviously, and clearly NOT what I was told by BMWFS when I called 3 days after his death, otherwise we would never have made the decision to return the car. I would have taken over his lease myself and kept the pristine car. So I called BMWFS tonight and had a pleasant conversation where I was encouraged to just "trade it in on a new BMW or sell it yourself" otherwise they will auction it off and his "estate" (i.e. my mom) will get charged thousands of dollars in the difference between vehicle value and auction price received by BMW. They told me that the contract specifically doesn't mention death as a way out of a lease and is considered "early termination" only and therefore they expect payment for the vehicle...either from other persons on the lease or the estate of the deceased. She isn't on the lease.

In any event, while I understand BMW's position I'm EXTREMELY upset that BMWFS sent collections after my mom less than 4 weeks after my dads death. She is not doing well emotionally and this just sent her into a tizzy again today about how much more money she is going to owe to someone else in addition to losing her husband of 45 years (they were not wealthy, no life insurance, no huge bank account...this car was my dads retirement dream and they could barely afford it FWIW, but he deserved the car).

I'm baffled--and extremely angry--that we made a decision to turn the car in when I was told by BMWFS to just turn it in, pay the fee for any damages (there were none), and they will take care of it (dealer said the same, but they don't own the car)...and then today to receive a message from BMWFS saying to pay up, pay all the remaining and past payments, or sell/trade the car ourselves or else when they auction the car off for $10K less than what it is worth we can just pay them that difference...WTF? But then again I guess my dad did sign a contract, even though it doesn't address death...

Just hoping for any insight anyone might have who found themselves in a similar situation. And thanks for reading, hopefully it may get you to think about leasing a car... and the side effects it may have on others...

[myzmak]

I have no specific advice or experience but this does seem to be horseshit.

Sorry to hear you have to go through it.

[MRCUR]

Ask the dealer for a trade in value on the car. It's very possible that it's close to, equal to or higher than the lease buyout. That's how I end my leases early.

Sorry to hear about the whole situation.

[RickFLM4]

Sorry to hear about your dad and the situation. Did the dealer give you or your mom anything in writing to document what exactly they were doing when they took the car back? Do you know if they still have the car?

[Liquid2.0T]

I'm very sorry to hear what you have to go through.

Have you tried going up the chain of command at BMWFS? Perhaps the first person you spoke with took notes in the system and documented what they told you. I've had to fight tooth and nail when these miscommunications happen and they end up costing me.

If worst comes to worst and they dont budge. Can you give us some specific details about the terms of the lease? Is it a reasonable monthly payment and how many months are left? Perhaps you can do a lease transfer through leasetrader or swapalease.

[PodDoc]

That's pretty shitty of BMW Financial. Especially when they are the ones that specifically told you what to do.

Sorry for your loss. Hope it gets resolved soon. Maybe reach out to BMW NA, explain what happened, maybe they will make an exception.

[al3xander]

First off, I'm very sorry for your loss. That's a tough thing to deal with on its own. Adding on this situation now after they had told you they would handle it makes it even worse. is filing a complaint with the BBB an option here?

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Sorry to hear about your dad and the situation. Did the dealer give you or your mom anything in writing to document what exactly they were doing when they took the car back? Do you know if they still have the car?

Originally Posted by Liquid2.0T

I'm very sorry to hear what you have to go through.

Have you tried going up the chain of command at BMWFS? Perhaps the first person you spoke with took notes in the system and documented what they told you. I've had to fight tooth and nail when these miscommunications happen and they end up costing me.

If worst comes to worst and they dont budge. Can you give us some specific details about the terms of the lease? Is it a reasonable monthly payment and how many months are left? Perhaps you can do a lease transfer through leasetrader or swapalease.

Originally Posted by PodDoc

That's pretty shitty of BMW Financial. Especially when they are the ones that specifically told you what to do.

Sorry for your loss. Hope it gets resolved soon. Maybe reach out to BMW NA, explain what happened, maybe they will make an exception.

This has to be something that they (BMWFS) deal with [unfortunately] fairly often. They sent me a copy of the lease. There is only an "early termination" section saying you can turn in the car and pay all remaining payments "plus a penalty" and taxes (obviously no-one would do that), buy the car for its value (or trade it in on something else), or transfer the lease. Those are the 3 options. But the terminology assumes the early turn in was "voluntary." In death, not so much "voluntary" and he was the only person on the lease, and it says nothing about estate...etc.

The car is still at the dealer, BMWFS has not picked it up yet. I suspect the dealership (who have been really great and did give her paperwork that she signed but I never looked at and am 8 hours away) is trying to sell it themselves, and if they do and make a few bucks, good on them!

He had 6 months until eligible for "early leaseback," but not sure my mom can sustain or needs another BMW payment at this point (has another car that's paid off)...

[RickFLM4]

Why not ask the dealer to buy the car themselves before it goes to BMWFS / auction? Can't hurt to see what they will pay.

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

Why not ask the dealer to buy the car themselves before it goes to BMWFS / auction? Can't hurt to see what they will pay.

That's something I'm considering. I realize that my dad signed a contract. Neither he nor I are people willing to leave others hanging. Unfortunately my mom really can't afford this lease, now with my dad's social security gone.

I'm extremely unhappy with their tactics though. He missed 1 payment because he was dead...collections with threatening tactics to his widow...really?! Will button this up then I'm done with this company after this...I realize all car companies all the same. But F them.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by rhk118

That's something I'm considering. I realize that my dad signed a contract. Neither he nor I are people willing to leave others hanging. Unfortunately my mom really can't afford this lease, now with my dad's social security gone.

I'm extremely unhappy with their tactics though. He missed 1 payment because he was dead...collections with threatening tactics...really?! Will button this one up then I'm done with this company after this...I really they're all the same. But F them.

Oh I agree with all that. The person that spoke with your mom was an ass, no doubt. Just wondering if the dealership can pay enough to alleviate any financial burden and simplify things since they have the car already.

[m4recruiter]

I'm sorry for your loss. I lost my father this past summer.

My advice is to get an attorney involved that can speak to closing out estates in this matter. Not to sue, nor for any gain other than to logically help you through this ordeal, and to take the emotion out of it.

Best wishes to you and your family.

[AYTifosi]

Condolences on your father. I lost my father when I was 27 and he was 47. So I know how hard this is. Of course you're going to be feeling protective of your mother too.

Your question though is about a contract. As you say, it's a contract. What does the contact say about early termination? There either is or is not a death clause and that will spell the agreement your dad signed. That someone told you otherwise is hearsay in court, so someone at BMW Financial probably won't be able to help. They can be sympathetic to your loss, however they probably won't alter the contract and lose money because of your loss.

Is it a community property state? Is your father's debt automatically your mother's? Is there an attorney involved with the estate at all? What might feel right emotionally may not have anything to do with the legal agreement your father signed. Your worst bet will be to "sell it" to the dealer as they will need to buy it at wholesale and you'll loose. Your absolute best bet is going to be to try and sell it yourself (advertise in Roundell, contact the local CCA chapter. Or try to get someone to assume the lease. http://www.leasetrader.com/ and http://www.swapalease.com/ seem popular, so that might work. Detail the your story and your dad's passion. I bet you get someone to take it over.

I will offer a suggestion that might seem cold at first. Upon reflection though, you might see it as helpful. I know this is emotional for you, how could it not be. However, try to switch to making it a business situation because really, that is what it is about: a business deal. Go work the best deal you can with your options.

Let us know how it goes.

[muhri]

So sorry for your loss and I hope you get something worked out. You do need peace and patience to deal with this and it is absolutely not the time to worry for you or your mom!

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by AYTifosi

Condolences on your father. I lost my father when I was 27 and he was 47. So I know how hard this is. Of course you're going to be feeling protective of your mother too.

Your question though is about a contract. As you say, it's a contract. What does the contact say about early termination? There either is or is not a death clause and that will spell the agreement your dad signed. That someone told you otherwise is hearsay in court, so someone at BMW Financial probably won't be able to help. They can be sympathetic to your loss, however they probably won't alter the contract and lose money because of your loss.

Is it a community property state? Is your father's debt automatically your mother's? Is there an attorney involved with the estate at all? What might feel right emotionally may not have anything to do with the legal agreement your father signed. Your worst bet will be to "sell it" to the dealer as they will need to buy it at wholesale and you'll loose. Your absolute best bet is going to be to try and sell it yourself (advertise in Roundell, contact the local CCA chapter. Or try to get someone to assume the lease. http://www.leasetrader.com/ and http://www.swapalease.com/ seem popular, so that might work. Detail the your story and your dad's passion. I bet you get someone to take it over.

I will offer a suggestion that might seem cold at first. Upon reflection though, you might see it as helpful. I know this is emotional for you, how could it not be. However, try to switch to making it a business situation because really, that is what it is about: a business deal. Go work the best deal you can with your options.

Let us know how it goes.

Thanks all for the input. I know I sound emotional but I'm completely in a business box here, fairly easy for me (fortunately or not) to keep the emotional and rational boxes separate. I read the entire contract before calling them initially, and was told to just return the car and they will take care of the rest because death is not addressed.

Then a month later collections is calling and threatening to repo the car. To me thats going to the nuclear option after 1 missed payment. Their response seemingly out of proportion to the situation. We made a business decision based on bad information from BMWFS that it can just be returned and pay the damages to the car. I'm not even trying to buy derivatives here, its just a car. So unemotionally I can say I'm done with this company, they've lost at least 2-3 more car sales out of me.

My mom has an attorney involved, guess thats one more thing to sick her on!

[MKSixer]

I am sorry for your loss and the difficulty that this situation has caused for both your mom and you. I would seek legal counsel to explore every option available. This is probably not the the best time to try to figure this out on your own.

Kindest Regards-mk

[wdb]

Sorry for your loss and for the tribulations of dealing with idiots at such a delicate time for you and your mother. If I may ask it of you, can you follow up here with how everything works out? It may ease burdens for other folks in the future.

[M3Bimmer77]

Sorry for the loss. It happened to me several years ago with my mom and I still miss here.

Anyways, first I would talk to the general manager of that dealer. Ask for an appointment. If it doesn't work head to the headquarters. Finally if it doesn't work seek legal advice.

Don't forget that the dealer is one business and BMW finance is another and they are more system oriented, meaning they will do what the system tells them to do. They have no decesion making at all. Again start going up until you can reach a high ranked manager that can help you. Start writing things down like dates, phone numbers, contact, and a brief summary of the conversation. Always try to get emailed responses or replies.

If the contract doesn't say anything about "in case of death" you are not responsible for anything! One suggestion is to start changing docs that your father owned or was co owner on, like the title of other cars, warranty deeds, mortgage, and so on.

I am not a lawyer but years of dealing with society has tought me several things. One of them is "do not accept a "no" or something that you are not 100% sure of.

Good luck.

[overcoil]

This article duplicates what other poster said about dealer selling car as opposed to auction.


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...21-column.html

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by M3Bimmer77

Sorry for the loss. It happened to me several years ago with my mom and I still miss here.

Anyways, first I would talk to the general manager of that dealer. Ask for an appointment. If it doesn't work head to the headquarters. Finally if it doesn't work seek legal advice.

Don't forget that the dealer is one business and BMW finance is another and they are more system oriented, meaning they will do what the system tells them to do. They have no decesion making at all. Again start going up until you can reach a high ranked manager that can help you. Start writing things down like dates, phone numbers, contact, and a brief summary of the conversation. Always try to get emailed responses or replies.

If the contract doesn't say anything about "in case of death" you are not responsible for anything! One suggestion is to start changing docs that your father owned or was co owner on, like the title of other cars, warranty deeds, mortgage, and so on.

I am not a lawyer but years of dealing with society has tought me several things. One of them is "do not accept a "no" or something that you are not 100% sure of.

Good luck.

I am a lawyer. One of the things 44 years of practicing law has taught me is not to listen to lay people's legal advice.

In my state (California) the deceased's estate would be liable for the remainder of the lease contract.

In this case it seems that there is arguably a verbal contract, reliance on representations and a change of position. (This is called "detrimental reliance" and leads to "promissory estoppel" as is discussed in § 90 of the Restatement (Second) of Contracts which, generally, all U.S. states follow.) A lawyer may help but before then reminding BMWFS of the representation of its agent on which you reasonably relied and took action might be helpful.

Good luck.

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer

I am a lawyer. One of the things 44 years of practicing law has taught me is not to listen to lay people's legal advice.

In my state (California) the deceased's estate would be liable for the remainder of the lease contract.

In this case it seems that there is arguably a verbal contact, reliance on representations and a change of position. (This is called "detrimental reliance" and leads to "promissory estoppel" as is discussed in § 90 of the Restatement (Second) of Contracts which, generally, all U.S. states follow.) A lawyer may help but before then reminding BMWFS of the representation of its agent on which you reasonably relied and took action might be helpful.

Good luck.

Greatly appreciated.

Will let you all know how it plays out, and have been keeping detailed notes from the get-go (so much to keep track of when this happens obviously). I imagine this will get resolved amicably, at least that's my intention, and get it behind us.

[Mandi90TT]

IANAL, but you might want to mention to BMWFS next time you talk with them, that you are chronicling this whole process on social media. Don't make any threats, or anything like that, because that will not turn out well for you, just say to them something along the lines of this "In the interests of full disclosure, I am chronicling this process on social media (Facebook, Twitter, BMW enthusiast forums, etc...) in order to educate other people on the process so that they may avoid any of the pitfalls they are encountering"

That may encourage BMWFS to treat you better in this period of grief.