[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Tax credits and battery life worries combine to ruin resale value on EV cars...

From the Wall Street Journal:

Resale Prices Tumble on Electric Cars

[hellrotm]

You would have to be kinda crazy to actually purchase one of these cars. Leasing is the only way to go.

[Nitrousbird]

Except for Tesla, the electric cars people actually want because they aren't some lame, overpriced econo box.

[Slops]

The real reason is probably that it can't compete with tesla in the near future

[loveskiing]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

Except for Tesla, the electric cars people actually want because they aren't some lame, overpriced econo box.

Even Tesla prices plummet when the new(er) model comes out...look at what happened to S prices with the S p85d...
I love the thought of moving more folks from fossil fuels to environmentally friendly fuels (electicity, hydrogen etc.) but wonder if the newer technologies bought early on in the game lose most of their value when something much better/cheaper comes along quickly afterwards

[c63er]

Let's face it. Electric cars are still toys for people with money. The market for used electric cars is most likely almost non existent

[secretsquirrel]

The resale is going to be lower because only early adopters are really looking to purchase one.

[dtwyim]

Someone told me you cannot lease a Tesla, is that correct?

Agree with point about only wanting to lease an electric car. To me, an EV is basically a big piece of electronic equipment. We all know cell phone, TV, computers get cheaper and better every day.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by dtwyim

Someone told me you cannot lease a Tesla, is that correct?

Agree with point about only wanting to lease an electric car. To me, an EV is basically a big piece of electronic equipment. We all know cell phone, TV, computers get cheaper and better every day.

This type of phenomenon doesn't scale as well with automobiles (the Tesla is not a giant cell phone, computer, nor TV). It takes significant engineering to reduce the manufacturing costs of an automobile and there is a finite level of technology needed to have automobiles meet safety and environmental regulations, which are not universal and always moving targets.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

.... a finite level of technology needed to have automobiles meet safety and environmental regulations,...

Which they don't really met.
I wish people know how much damage we produce to the enironment by manufacturing these EVs....
Second, there are some issues like EMF but each with its own...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Tracus

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post

.... a finite level of technology needed to have automobiles meet safety and environmental regulations,...

Which they don't really met.
I wish people know how much damage we produce to the enironment by manufacturing these EVs....
Second, there are some issues like EMF but each with its own...

I agree with you, but you took my comment to a totally different place. I was pointing out that a Tesla is not a giant cell phone subject to rapid enhancement and advancement because cell phones have far less restrictions on using available engineering dollars to meet industry standards (mostly self imposed by the telecom industry) for safety and ("tail pipe emissions") environmental regulations. Car design involves meeting very stringent safety and emissions regulations, which with each design change have to be tested and adhered to. For instance, if a manufacturer changes the engine in a car, or the transmission, even without significant change to the chassis, the car has to be recertified to meeting safety crash standards. These types of tests are very expensive and must be amortized over the expected sales volume of the vehicle, which keeps rapid change within the automotive industry at a far lower pace than for products of the electronics industry. A cell phone must meet RF emissions safety requirements, which are far far less costly to test for and design around.

Additionally, the infrastructure (physical plant and production equipment) to manufacture automobiles is far more expensive than it is for the electronic industry. This also dictates the speed at which product change is introduced into automotive products. Manufacturers must recoup very expensive production equipment and tooling costs though sales of each different product family (i.e. all the variations of the 3-series), which is why the industry shares so much platform design between different models. VW is the industry leader of this technique being that it builds 45 or so different models off of a high-level-shared common platform. Cell phones and TVs don't involve automotive-levels of platform cost and can make far more rapid changes to their products at little (relative) cost. - dtwyim's analogy wasn't very good. If his analogy were somewhat true Tesla would have already introduced the Tesla X (it's been delayed at least 18 months by my count) and the Tesla 3 would be in low-rate initial production.

[Nitrousbird]

Originally Posted by loveskiing

Even Tesla prices plummet when the new(er) model comes out...look at what happened to S prices with the S p85d...

I just looked at all of Auto Trader across the country. The cheapest non-wrecked Teslas I could fine were two of the 2008 Roadsters and a single Model S for 55k. Most are 65k+, with an emphasis on that +. I'd venture to say their resale is better than your equally priced BMW...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Nitrousbird

I just looked at all of Auto Trader across the country. The cheapest non-wrecked Teslas I could fine were two of the 2008 Roadsters and a single Model S for 55k. Most are 65k+, with an emphasis on that +. I'd venture to say their resale is better than your equally priced BMW...

Perhaps Tesla's buy back program keeps the prices artificially high? From the Tesla website:

"Lending

Tesla lending is an innovative financing program that combines the benefits of leasing and the advantages of ownership. Available in many states, each loan benefits from Tesla’s Resale Value Guarantee which guarantees the value of your Model S after three years at 50% of the 60 kWh base price plus 43% of all options, excluding taxes, fees, and accessories. In addition, you’ll benefit from many EV incentives not available when leasing, such as the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit. "

[tiltmode43]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Perhaps Tesla's buy back program keeps the prices artificially high? From the Tesla website:

"Lending

Tesla lending is an innovative financing program that combines the benefits of leasing and the advantages of ownership. Available in many states, each loan benefits from Tesla’s Resale Value Guarantee which guarantees the value of your Model S after three years at 50% of the 60 kWh base price plus 43% of all options, excluding taxes, fees, and accessories. In addition, you’ll benefit from many EV incentives not available when leasing, such as the $7,500 Federal Tax Credit. "

Ehh, all this is stating is that they guarantee your Tesla Model S will be worth $35,500 after 3 years + 43% of the MSRP on the options.

If you take into consideration a P85D with Carbon spoiler, Tech Package, Smart Air Suspension, Hi-Fi Sound, Premium Interior & Executive rear seats (not uncommon combo to see) you're looking at a $104,500 car + $18,170 in options. All that guarantee states is your car will be worth a minimum of $34,950 ($69.9k/2) + $7813.10 ($18,170*.43) = $42,763 after 3 years. Or if one considered the cheapest route, a base 60 would have a guaranteed resale value of $34,950 after 3 years. While these prices are guaranteed, I don't think it's anywhere near artificially inflating the used market values. If 50% value were an actuality after only 3 years, the lease rates would be through the roof

[tiltmode43]

Originally Posted by dtwyim

Someone told me you cannot lease a Tesla, is that correct?

Agree with point about only wanting to lease an electric car. To me, an EV is basically a big piece of electronic equipment. We all know cell phone, TV, computers get cheaper and better every day.

Tesla leases are available

[zer0cool]

Used Teslas are keeping value so well such that there's no reason to buy one used.

Like you save little to nothing by buying one used vs new... 2013 Teslas with 30k miles or less are all going above 65k... Yet realize that a new 60kwh only cost in the 70s and you get a 7500 tax credit for buying new...

Really the other electric cars are falling in value so much because they are 20k cars sold for 40k. Tesla on the other hand is (using the most popular S85 as an example) a 100k car sold for 90k. So of course it's keeping value better.