[infamxkris]

Hey guys I know this is the m3 thread but I feel like I would get a better response here given it gets more traffic than the m5 threads so I thought I'd give it a shot. Anyway a little about myself, I am 23 years old and I've owned an e92 m3 before trading it in and making the jump to a 2013 f10 m5. For those wondering I purchase all my cars myself and don't seek any parental assistance which is something I am proud of. Anyway my whole experience with bmw has changed for the worse after making this decision. So let me brief you on what I am currently dealing with.

I bought my f10 m5 about March or April of 2014 with about 6k miles. I bought this at a bmw dealership as well as making the deal with a family friend that is actually a sales agent at this said location. So I felt very comfortable making this purchase as far as trust went or so I thought....

Red flags started waving in my head as I was about to make the purchase. First I asked if they could CPO the car and the sales agent (my family friend) as well as the manager told me it is not possible to CPO the car as they said it was "too new". I had a hard time believing this because the car was a 2013 model with 6k miles in which I'm buying a year later in 2014. Mind you I've had my 2009 e92 m3 CPO with 11k miles when I had bought that car back in 2010. Even though it sounded fishy I gave them the benefit of the doubt and brushed it off. After buying the car I called bmw na to ask if my car was indeed unable to be certified. They told me to my surprise that my car was definitely able to be CPOed. This should have been the first sign of many bad things to come.

So the next day as I am walking to my car I notice the front bumper is noticeably a different color in a certain angle. So I went back to the dealership expressing my concerns. They told me they had no idea and that the previous owner might have resprayed it for rock chips. Oh, I forgot to mention the previous owner was a former sales manager at this same dealership who they claim got rid of the car to get into an m6. So after much talking they decided to cover the cost to respray it, only catch is that I need to bring it to a shop they work with. On top of all that my car has been eating oil every 500-1k miles. They advised I bring to service to get it topped off every time and that this is normal for this car.

Okay so fast forward a couple months and my luck has it where I get rear ended on the highway. So I get it towed to bmw the same place I bought the car and they had it sent out to a body shop they send all their cars for paint work. So after two long months I get my car back and the front bumper they were supposed to take care of is now a totally different shade... As you can imagine I was not happy...

So I bring it back to the dealership in which the manager admitted to being embarrassed of the work done. This did not make me feel very comfortable as they were the one that worked on the rear end of the car as well from the accident which only leads me to believe the whole car is a different shade. Anyway the manager decided he will send it to another shop where he promised it will be fixed once and for all.

Fast forward 2 weeks and I get a call from the owner of the body shop the car is at. He asks me if there was work ever done on the left side of the car (drivers side) and I told him no this is the first time I am getting work done. He then proceeds to tell me that one of his workers went to find the VIN sticker located on the pillars of our cars when you open the drivers door and said it was missing.

At this point I am furious... I called bmw na to ask what is going on and if there is anything that could be done. They told me I would have to deal with the dealership that had sold me the car. I call the dealership and they have no idea what I am talking about and directed me to service. So I go to my service department where the manager there tells me that it could have come off if somebody has pressure washed it. Now to me this is very hard to believe as this is not a sticker that just pulls off... And I can't imagine someone pressure washing that one spot for an extended amount of time and run the risk of getting water in the interior of the car. It just didn't make sense to me at all...

I guess what I want to know is considering I had work done on the car because of my recent accident and also the fact I've had the car for several months and just now I am finding this out is there anything I can do? I just want the peace of mind of knowing the car was not hit before I had bought the car. Car fax was also clean when I had purchased it but I do know if you don't report it, it won't show on the car fax report. The previous owner being the former sales manager at this location I am sure he had ways of covering this up if in fact it was in a collision. So people of bimmerpost what advice can you give me and is there even anything I can do at this point? I really do feel like I will never buy another bmw again after this horrific experience...

I know this was an extremely long post but given the fact they lied about CPO, Front bumper being resprayed was not disclosed, previous owner being the former sales manager and now the VIN sticker being missing do you guys think this car was hit and was not disclosed to me prior to purchasing the car? I truly do feel they are trying to cover something... PLEASE HELP!!!

[SakhirM4]

Get a good attorney and forget getting advice from BimmerPost !!!!

[Vigilant]

Originally Posted by infamxkris

Hey guys I know this is the m3 thread but I feel like I would get a better response here given it gets more traffic than the m5 threads so I thought I'd give it a shot. Anyway a little about myself, I am 23 years old and I've owned an e92 m3 before trading it in and making the jump to a 2013 f10 m5. For those wondering I purchase all my cars myself and don't seek any parental assistance which is something I am proud of. Anyway my whole experience with bmw has changed for the worse after making this decision. So let me brief you on what I am currently dealing with.

I bought my f10 m5 about March or April of 2014 with about 6k miles. I bought this at a bmw dealership as well as making the deal with a family friend that is actually a sales agent at this said location. So I felt very comfortable making this purchase as far as trust went or so I thought....

Red flags started waving in my head as I was about to make the purchase. First I asked if they could CPO the car and the sales agent (my family friend) as well as the manager told me it is not possible to CPO the car as they said it was "too new". I had a hard time believing this because the car was a 2013 model with 6k miles in which I'm buying a year later in 2014. Mind you I've had my 2009 e92 m3 CPO with 11k miles when I had bought that car back in 2010. Even though it sounded fishy I gave them the benefit of the doubt and brushed it off. After buying the car I called bmw na to ask if my car was indeed unable to be certified. They told me to my surprise that my car was definitely able to be CPOed. This should have been the first sign of many bad things to come.

So the next day as I am walking to my car I notice the front bumper is noticeably a different color in a certain angle. So I went back to the dealership expressing my concerns. They told me they had no idea and that the previous owner might have resprayed it for rock chips. Oh, I forgot to mention the previous owner was a former sales manager at this same dealership who they claim got rid of the car to get into an m6. So after much talking they decided to cover the cost to respray it, only catch is that I need to bring it to a shop they work with. On top of all that my car has been eating oil every 500-1k miles. They advised I bring to service to get it topped off every time and that this is normal for this car.

Okay so fast forward a couple months and my luck has it where I get rear ended on the highway. So I get it towed to bmw the same place I bought the car and they had it sent out to a body shop they send all their cars for paint work. So after two long months I get my car back and the front bumper they were supposed to take care of is now a totally different shade... As you can imagine I was not happy...

So I bring it back to the dealership in which the manager admitted to being embarrassed of the work done. This did not make me feel very comfortable as they were the one that worked on the rear end of the car as well from the accident which only leads me to believe the whole car is a different shade. Anyway the manager decided he will send it to another shop where he promised it will be fixed once and for all.

Fast forward 2 weeks and I get a call from the owner of the body shop the car is at. He asks me if there was work ever done on the left side of the car (drivers side) and I told him no this is the first time I am getting work done. He then proceeds to tell me that one of his workers went to find the VIN sticker located on the pillars of our cars when you open the drivers door and said it was missing.

At this point I am furious... I called bmw na to ask what is going on and if there is anything that could be done. They told me I would have to deal with the dealership that had sold me the car. I call the dealership and they have no idea what I am talking about and directed me to service. So I go to my service department where the manager there tells me that it could have come off if somebody has pressure washed it. Now to me this is very hard to believe as this is not a sticker that just pulls off... And I can't imagine someone pressure washing that one spot for an extended amount of time and run the risk of getting water in the interior of the car. It just didn't make sense to me at all...

I guess what I want to know is considering I had work done on the car because of my recent accident and also the fact I've had the car for several months and just now I am finding this out is there anything I can do? I just want the peace of mind of knowing the car was not hit before I had bought the car. Car fax was also clean when I had purchased it but I do know if you don't report it, it won't show on the car fax report. The previous owner being the former sales manager at this location I am sure he had ways of covering this up if in fact it was in a collision. So people of bimmerpost what advice can you give me and is there even anything I can do at this point? I really do feel like I will never buy another bmw again after this horrific experience...

I know this was an extremely long post but given the fact they lied about CPO, Front bumper being resprayed was not disclosed, previous owner being the former sales manager and now the VIN sticker being missing do you guys think this car was hit and was not disclosed to me prior to purchasing the car? I truly do feel they are trying to cover something... PLEASE HELP!!!

Ok OP...let's start with the simple question...when you bought the M5 was it "as is" or do you have a warranty?

Ask the "sales manager" for any service documentation at their dealership prior to your purchase.

If they are less than cooperative, pursue with your local Better Business Bureau. Some local TV stations love exposés on fraudulent transactions and may entertain your complaint.

I would say that based on your story, your initial hunch was correct...never trust anyone.

Maybe hire a good attorney...

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Get a good attorney and forget getting advice from BimmerPost !!!!

+1

[infamxkris]

Originally Posted by Vigilant

Ok OP...let's start with the simple question...when you bought the M5 was it "as is" or do you have a warranty?

Ask the "sales manager" for any service documentation at their dealership prior to your purchase.

If they are less than cooperative, pursue with your local Better Business Bureau. Some local TV stations love exposés on fraudulent transactions and may entertain your complaint.

I would say that based on your story, your initial hunch was correct...never trust anyone.

Maybe hire a good attorney...

The car came with the original warranty. 4yr 50k... I guess my question is do I even have a case being that it's been months since the purchase? Also do you guys think the car was hit? Does it help that I called bmw na asking about the CPO situation and the fact they lied about not being able to CPO it? Would they have a record of me calling in for that and would that hold any weight in trying to prove I was taken advantage of?

[M4TW]

Well since you're on our board, I think you're best play here is to leverage your grievance for a good trade in price for a new M3.

[Reid]

A dealer also must:

provide the buyer completed odometer and damage disclosure statements:

http://dmv.ny.gov/brochure/let-buyer-be-aware

[Lups]

Wtf is wrong with people if family friends get screwed over a few bucks?

Op keep us posted but I would say you being young meant to these guys you're stupid enough to fall for anything. Best of luck.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by infamxkris

The car came with the original warranty. 4yr 50k... I guess my question is do I even have a case being that it's been months since the purchase? Also do you guys think the car was hit? Does it help that I called bmw na asking about the CPO situation and the fact they lied about not being able to CPO it? Would they have a record of me calling in for that and would that hold any weight in trying to prove I was taken advantage of?

I guess I'm not understanding why you keep bringing up the CPO warranty as it will not cover accident/cosmetic damage. Nor will the orginal 4/50k one.

I'm no lawyer, but it sounds like you are going to have a case of they said you said. If your suspicions are correct that they lied to you (and it looks like you have good reason for them), they certainly are not going to come clean now. This is why you need to hire a good lawyer that deals with this kind of civil and maybe criminal issue. They can investigate it and see if they can do anything for you and which laws may have been broken.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Lups

Wtf is wrong with people if family friends get screwed over a few bucks?

Op keep us posted but I would say you being young meant to these guys you're stupid enough to fall for anything. Best of luck.

+1 a lot of people really truly suck.

[Drizz]

Good luck sorting this out. Definitely sucks.

[Vectors2final]

Anybody who deals with paint, or paint and body can tell if there has been work done to the car. I would have the shop put it on a lift and see what they can find... It may help your case, and the dealer could be liable for non-disclosure of previous damage, which is illegal in most states.

Those VIN stickers don't just come off from pressure washing. You see the slanted BMW/BMW/BMW all over the sticker? It's just like if you were to pull the sticker off your PS4 or your Xbox. It would leave behind a "void" underneath. Also, what are they doing pressure washing a vehicle with the door open?




Did you pay for the FULL carfax, or did you just look at the print out the dealer showed you?

[MVested]

BMW of OYSTER BAY?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by infamxkris

given the fact they lied about CPO, Front bumper being resprayed was not disclosed, previous owner being the former sales manager and now the VIN sticker being missing do you guys think this car was hit and was not disclosed to me prior to purchasing the car? I truly do feel they are trying to cover something... PLEASE HELP!!!

It's hard to tell, but here's one scenario that may have happened:

(1.) Dealer decided to have some fun in a demo M5 and crashed it up a bit
(2.) Dealer had the damage repaired in-house and without documenting it
(3.) Dealer found a patsy - you - to buy it off of them

It sucks, and it can happen to the best of us, but there it is. As others have said, your general options are:

(A.) Hire an attorney and go after the dealership for all kinds of bad behavior. This will likely take time and cost you money, at least in the short term.

(B.) Make some noise, get as much from the dealer as your noise can, and then live with it. The problem with this option is, YOU may end up getting hit with no-VIN / undisclosed damage thing in the future. You can get around that with an As-Is disclosure form when you sell ... course that can make it harder to sell.

[fbm3cab]

Sometimes threating to involve a lawyer in a "non-threating" way will motivate them to agree to your demands (wishes).

Just figure out what you want as a resolution and approach them with it, if their smart they will choose spending on customer satisfaction over the cost of lawyer fees.

Something like trade in value of your purchase price, or very close to it for use on the purchase of another vehicle?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by fbm3cab

Just figure out what you want as a resolution and approach them with it, if their smart they will choose spending on customer satisfaction over the cost of lawyer fees.

I'd add that if the dealer was up to shenanigans (and it definitely sounds like they were) the threat of an attorney - and an associated investigation into said shenanigans - might be enough to get them talking.

OP, I think you need to get out of this car as soon as possible.

[BurnMeWallet]

This is why I don't buy used high end cars

[Wah]

You say you will never buy another BMW again after this... but that really is unfair. You are dealing with a independently owned dealership on a used car deal gone sour. This has nothing to do with BMW as a brand. It wasn't even a new car, so I would think its out of corporate's hands.

Best of luck... If it were me, I'd probably see what I can get for it and move on (if you don't want to keep it). You already got into a car accident while you owned it, so there is now diminished value regardless of what happened before you bought it. You should try to recoup that from the insurance company of person that rear-ended you. If anything, this "2nd" accident makes pursuing the dealership pointless. I probably wouldn't ever do business with them again, but maybe you can use it as leverage for a trade in and new car purchase?

[4DRS55]

I would reem the dealer a new one. Sry about your experience. I wish dealers stop being so fing fake and shady. Unfortunately there are only a handful of decent dealers out there. One thing I learned is no matter if the salesperson is a friend or a family friend their motive is to make a sale. Yes that's there job but I would assume they would look out for your best interest, but instead it's an easier sale bc you trust your relationship with that person
Good luck and I would do whatever to prove a fing point.

[TheLegend]

You really can't trust anyone when it comes to a used car. I've spent the last 2 months checking out more than 10+ e92 M3s. I've always found something not quite right with each car.

The worst was at a BMW dealer, 5 hrs away from me. I asked them the usual slew of questions, one of them being paint work. Of course dealer denied everything, "car is pristine, yada, yada...." We work out a price over the phone and I make the 5 hr drive down. With my untrained eyes and me being relatively experienced I was able to find paint work done on the entire left side of the vehicle from very subtle overspray. I promptly walked away. Same usual bullshit, not CPOed cause they're trying to keep the price low, or it was a manager's car. The worst part is they played dumb about the paint work.

Always get a PPI, always do your diligence with every car no matter who it's coming from. Consider everyone a liar. Carfax is pretty useless as all the cars have had clean carfaxes, but makes a valuable screening tool.

OP, I hope you get everything sorted out and nothing major happened to the car.

[P-Bass]

Originally Posted by MVested

BMW of OYSTER BAY?

I'm also on Long Island. Which dealer was it so we can all avoid them in the future..

[solstice]

When you shop for a used car trust your instincts. If anything feels weird or wrong it likely is. I don't have other advice than the good ones already given here other than stand your ground and good luck.