[954Stealth]

"F1 is now speeding towards yet another new set of engine regulations.

On Thursday at a Geneva meeting of the Strategy Group, Bernie Ecclestone proposed to scrap the current turbo V6 rules.


Michael Schmidt, of the respected German trade magazine Auto Motor und Sport, said that although his proposal did not produce a "definitive result", the sport is now headed towards an all-new set of regulations for 2016.

"The engines are to be louder, more powerful and cheaper," said Schmidt on Friday.

"The goal is 1000 horse power and a cost of 10 million euros per team. An expert group must deliver results (on the proposal) by the end of January," he added.

It is now too late, however, to make significant changes to the 2015 rules, which will be almost identical to the turbo V6 formula that saw Mercedes cruise dominantly to the title this year.

Geneva, however, did produce one or two rule tweaks for 2015.

Recently, when Korea was surprisingly added to the 2015 schedule, it was said Ecclestone had done it as a mere trick to give every driver an extra engine to use throughout next season.

But on Thursday, that loophole was closed and - regardless of whether 20 or 21 races are ultimately held next year - each driver will be limited to just 4 engines for the 2015 season as originally intended.

Schmdit said the tweak was made because the extra engine would have cost already struggling teams up to an extra 800,000 euros."

[954Stealth]

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/12...irated-engines

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-...r-2016-engines

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1...n-2016-report/

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsp...ry/185051.html

[hellrotm]

Welcome to F1 Honda. Your engine will be scrap after one season.

[NickyC]

Ridiculous, all these attempts at cost cutting remind me of how government works. Start with a good idea, but in the end wind up costing everyone way more money than you would have otherwise and pissing everyone off in the meantime.

All that R&D spent on the I6s and they last two seasons, way to go F1. I don't even know why I care anymore, the "races" are such boring snooze fests anyway.

[thebishman]

This is such BS just because Renault and primarily Ferrari can't get their act together and produce a decent motor. Both Honda and Mercedes should tell that troll Bernie to go eff himself if this is allowed to occur.

[E90SLAM]

That's how F1 keep screwing new entrants and engine suppliers.
Remember back in 2010, when HRT, Lotus (Caterham), Virgin Racing (Marussia) entered F1. FOM forced them to use Cosworth engine, and back then they are organized the teams with an assumption a budget cap. Thus their R&D and money wise, will never catch up with the established teams. Now, 2 of the 3 are gone.

Now, Teams and Engine suppliers were forced to produce the power unit which cost more than traditional V8s. Another factor of smaller teams burning money.

In my opinion, 2014 (even 2015) teams should be allowed to choose to use either new I6 Power units or traditional V8 (with KERS only) if their budget constraints them to do so. That allows the teams to operate in lower budget if they wish. With more known factors when they allocate their budgets. Smaller teams simply don't have the budget to pay for and develop new power units.

[solstice]

Best news in a long time. Now they just need to scrap the fuel limit as well and we are BACK in business. No prentending to be green nonsense, just raw F1 racing. They can start a parallell, all electric green F1 spinoff and see how many viewers they get

And yes, this is of course all due to Ferrari not being able to build a competetive car. Who can blame them, F1 isn't F1 without a strong Ferrari. I guess Vettel just peed in his pants of joy, Alonso not so much

Regarding Honda, NA high revving, reliable engines are their forte' so I don't see any problem with this for them, rather the opposite taken Benz dominance and "vorsprung" with the turbo hybrid.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by solstice

"..............

Regarding Honda, NA high revving, reliable engines are their forte' so I don't see any problem with this for them, rather the opposite taken Benz dominance and "vorsprung" with the turbo hybrid.

Yes, except it doesn't tie in with marketing.
Isn't that one of the reasons they left the last time?

[solstice]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

Yes, except it doesn't tie in with marketing.
Isn't that one of the reasons they left the last time?

Not sure. Honda cars today is an utter disgrace from such a competent racing company. They suck at sports and they suck at luxury. Both Nissan and Toyota crush them in sport of the Japanase and the same go for luxury. Acura is a joke. The Germans absolutely crap on them. What they do best is BORING.

I think geting back in F1 is a great start if they want to revamp their enthusiast reputation independent on engine type, the rawer, thirstier, louder and faster the better to take them out of the disgraceful state they ended up in

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by solstice

I think geting back in F1 is a great start if they want to revamp their enthusiast reputation independent on engine type, the rawer, thirstier, louder and faster the better to take them out of the disgraceful state they ended up in

New NSX will help that as well.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

New NSX will help that as well.

Absolutely and it's likely no coincidence that the F1 return and the NSX return has similar timing. At least I hope they are symptoms of Honda making an effort to return with cars for enthusiasts. I have missed them.

[Jenya B]

i guess its stupid

[FogCityM3]

The F1 involvement helped spur BMW to develop the S85/S65, so it is a good sign.

Originally Posted by solstice

Absolutely and it's likely no coincidence that the F1 return and the NSX return has similar timing. At least I hope they are symptoms of Honda making an effort to return with cars for enthusiasts. I have missed them.

[RSBro]

Yeah, there are going to be some pissed manuf's and I can't blame them. However, I agree that my God, this is F1!! We shouldn't be pretending to "care" about being green and environmental. Who cares. Formula E is a circus sideshow and F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of racing innovation. So whatever it takes to get back to that, I'm happy with.

[thebishman]

Originally Posted by RSBro

Yeah, there are going to be some pissed manuf's and I can't blame them. However, I agree that my God, this is F1!! We shouldn't be pretending to "care" about being green and environmental. Who cares. Formula E is a circus sideshow and F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of racing innovation. So whatever it takes to get back to that, I'm happy with.

The current formula of FI engine paired with some form of hybrid component is highly relevant as many manufacturers are using this combination to increase economy but still maintain performance. Hence F1 using this type of power plant doesn't bother me at all.

What (somewhat) ruins the current regs re: the power train, is the stupid maximum fuel allowed and the fuel flow rate. This is the reason that the cars aren't allowed to rev to their full potential and create obscene power. Uncork the damn things and let them run without the ridiculous fuel constraints. We'll see even better racing than we did this year as the power/torque of the cars will really separate the 'men from the boys', AND the cars will sound much better at higher revs.

Bish

[RSBro]

Yes I'm well aware of that. That needs to go too. I don't care about they hybrid aspect of it, as I don't mind how the engines develop power (just like in LMP1) but they should get to USE the full amount of power which nobody seems to be suggesting. So if we have to go back to NA engines but they can actually rev and use fuel, then I would trade back to that in a heartbeat.

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by NickyC

All that R&D spent on the I6s and they last two seasons, way to go F1. I don't even know why I care anymore, the "races" are such boring snooze fests anyway.

Current engines are V6's not I6's.

I think the engine formula should be open like they have in Sportscar racing, the top three teams all use vastly different engines, Audi V6 turbo diesel, Porsche V4 petrol turbo, Toyota V8 petrol.

[David70]

Originally Posted by thebishman

The current formula of FI engine paired with some form of hybrid component is highly relevant as many manufacturers are using this combination to increase economy but still maintain performance. Hence F1 using this type of power plant doesn't bother me at all.

What (somewhat) ruins the current regs re: the power train, is the stupid maximum fuel allowed and the fuel flow rate. This is the reason that the cars aren't allowed to rev to their full potential and create obscene power. Uncork the damn things and let them run without the ridiculous fuel constraints. We'll see even better racing than we did this year as the power/torque of the cars will really separate the 'men from the boys', AND the cars will sound much better at higher revs.

Bish

X2. I especially have never understood the fuel flow rate. Since the tank is limited and they can't refuel who cares what the rate of use is. When they run out they will stop.

At this point I also prefer they stay with the turbo. In the not to distant future I believe virtually all normal cars will be turbo'd and this keeps the F1 engines closer to relevant.

I also think the main problem with money is the top teams are paid far more than the other's even when the others are successful. Getting rid of guaranteed payments and spreading the money around more equally would make the racing better and fill up the grid.