[MJE_85]

Am I missing something? He talks about the car being 90-120k pounds. I’ve pretty well close to fully loaded one up for about 112k CAD (65k pounds). Are UK prices that much more?

I get his concerns at 120k pounds - that’s absurd. But I built it out and thought the price was… reasonable.

[KiloCo]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Disclaimer: I've not tried an i5 but I think I need to help some enthusiasts out there understand the electric future doesn't have to suck

We've put 44,000 miles on an EV with about 250 miles of "real" highway range, in 38 months. Almost all of it was local driving, but at least 4000 of it has been road trips. Unlike our Tesla (a Model X Long Range Plus with 371 miles of rated range, lollerskates, that we bought instead of buying a traditional 3-row crossover) the BMW's actually meet or exceed their rated ranges, sometimes to an absurd degree. So unlike on a Tesla, 200 on the dash is 200 in freezing cold uphill both ways with no shoes on. Sortof like an F90 M5 has 600hp, at the wheels, on 85 octane at 9000' above sea level, with two spark plugs out

Electric drive is awesome. I also have an E90 M3 and the brain-foot-go feedback loop is better than the E90M from a "throttle response" perspective, leaving aside the fact that it's effortlessly quick, and I have a "slow" EV by EV standards, the Model X is nothing special, it's a squidgy soft heavy people-carrier that weighs 5600lb empty and is on the most milquetoast of tall-sidewall low rolling resistance tires, yet it delivers legitimately decent performance around a corner because a) immediate line adjustments with the throttle at a very granular level and b) the CG really is really, really low. Instead of engine noise you can hear what the tires are doing, which is important, because the tires are being punished mercilessly by all that mass. But you can feel what's going on, and it's exploitable, and predictable. These are things people who like to drive, ought to like. While I'm not much of a fan of the overall driving experience, the performance of the "fast" Teslas is brain-warping, particularly around ac orner where your brain doesn't understand how a car on such narrow tires, that is so heavy, can do such heroic things.

And if you just want A Good Daily Driver, the base, RWD, Model 3 is one of the best BMW 3-series ever sold, low grip, playful chassis, not expensive, small, steering not corrupted by a front motor, it's wonderful. I'm sure the 40e i4 rear-drive is similar - removing yet another droning 2.0turbo 4cylinder and replacing it with electric drive is the best thing I can think of to happen to the 3-series since the invention of 3-year leases

So I've sampled the electric future, as a long-time club racer, car enthusiast, and car appreciator, in the real world, and I give it a thumbs-up. Tesla, ehhh whatever, the cars are interesting enough but nothing special and underengineered in a lot of ways that make it annoying to live with, but electric drive? yayyy! Every car has big-block torque and naturally aspirated throttle response again!

Range ends up being a non-issue so long as you can charge overnight at home. If you can't, don't buy an EV.

If you want to road trip, don't buy an EV either, unless you're somebody who doesn't mind stopping a lot more than in your gas vehicle. With little kids it's not a big deal you're stopping a lot to stretch legs anyway, but for me personally, I don't road-trip outside of a ~350 mile radius from STL in the Tesla, just not worth the extra time. Unless I'm traveling for work, then I can get work done during the charge stops. We use our other cars for that stuff

I wouldn't own an EV as my only car, but as a two-car solution where one is an i5 M60 and the other is *insert gas vehicle*, that's a pretty nice setup. If you can turn off the voice assistant that is

That being said, i really only like electric drive because it can spice up what would otherwise be a boring, slow, high-CG tippy longstockings crossover experience for me. We wanted a 7-seater so we cross-shopped with GLS, X7, Tahoe, Sequioa, Land Cruiser etc. when we bought this thing, I wans't cross-shopping it with an M5; if I was, the Tesla's driving dynamics (holy shit, it's got room for 7 people but drives like a car!) wouldn't have been such a big differentiator. So far, there is no EV that is all that exciting as an enthusiast car to me, and I've tried a lot including Taycan and the various Tesla "fast" versions, and cheaper stuff like Mini SE and i3 and Bolt and etc. Taycan is aloof, Tesla's performance trims are half-baked particularly in ride/handling balance.

I'm still waiting for a proper small, quick, rear-drive EV that truly maximizes the potential for fun. I'm a little worried BMW M is going for Infinite Smash instead of taking the opportunity to make a lighter, funner, smaller experience out of their first EV. Cayman/Boxster EV may be the first attempt at a truly "fun as the first mission" ground-up EV that isn't just LOOK AT HOW MANY TORQUES WE HAVE

But the 5-series has always been a bit of a snooze, that's kind of the point, good dynamics that don't take center stage because it's meant to be a comfortable quiet executive sedan. I don't remember getting excited about the 540i 6-speed I drove and then ended up buying yet another 3-series instead. It was a fine car but it wasn't for people like me. The E60 non-M's did a nicer job from behind the wheel, but there were other uh...issues inflicted on us by Chris Bangle and the iDrive team. F10 was a total snoozefest, and the next model continued the "this is actually a 7-series" tradition up to present day.

And I can't stress this enough, if you don't want an EV, don't buy one, I promise nobody will make you.

" California announced a plan to require all new vehicles sold in the state to be electric or plug-in electric hybrids by 2035."

I don't want an EV.

You can't drive one (EV) from San Diego to San Francisco (490 miles) without stopping. EV cars are good for short distances in Los Angeles traffic.

[syslakm]

Originally Posted by KiloCo

" California announced a plan to require all new vehicles sold in the state to be electric or plug-in electric hybrids by 2035."

I don't want an EV.

You can't drive one (EV) from San Diego to San Francisco (490 miles) without stopping. EV cars are good for short distances in Los Angeles traffic.

Not to be that contrarian but I'm sure there's a list ICE cars who wouldn't be able to travel 490 miles without stopping. (And yes I recognize that replenishing the gas tank of an ICE car is faster than charging - just pointing out that the 490mile requirement is.... A unique use case)

[Scrapula]

[QUOTE=KiloCo;30810999]" California announced a plan to require all new vehicles sold in the state to be electric or plug-in electric hybrids by 2035."

I don't want an EV.

You can't drive one (EV) from San Diego to San Francisco (490 miles) without stopping. EV cars are good for short distances in Los Angeles traffic.

This is the same for Washington State, with the key word being NEW. I’m sure there will be other states getting new vehicles, selling them to put a title on them, then selling them used to the restricted states. I wouldn’t worry about it. But, in 10 years there will probably be solid state batteries with 600 mile range that charge in 10 minutes.

[WhiteFox]

Just amazing how little you get for £100k with this car and range is poor as in the cold will get less than 200 miles! Having been in the interior it feels rather KIA than luxury BMW. Small detail such as head rests look cheap and rear seats are not comfortable at all and far too upright. The boot is small and being electric why have they not got a frunk?! One of the key USP of electric cars was more space yet this car has zero. A model 3 Tesla has more storage space than this car! The rear of the car looks dated as well with overkill in plastic pieces.

I’d spend a bit more buy the new lotus for this sort of money.

[syslakm]

Originally Posted by WhiteFox

Just amazing how little you get for £100k with this car and range is poor as in the cold will get less than 200 miles! Having been in the interior it feels rather KIA than luxury BMW. Small detail such as head rests look cheap and rear seats are not comfortable at all and far too upright. The boot is small and being electric why have they not got a frunk?! One of the key USP of electric cars was more space yet this car has zero. A model 3 Tesla has more storage space than this car! The rear of the car looks dated as well with overkill in plastic pieces.

I’d spend a bit more buy the new lotus for this sort of money.

Are you referring to the new Lotus EV sedan? How much is that going to be in the UK?

[AP]

https://www.lotuscars.com/en-GB/car-locator

[WhiteFox]

Around 95-120k depending on spec. I got to sit inside one and the styling and interior is just amazing. The BMW is over priced and in my personal opinion has zero style appeal with gloss black chunks of plastic everywhere and a rear that looks like something from the old 7 series.

Save the money and go with an M car or something like the lotus. Plus you get lots of boot space.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by AP

It’s bizarre really isn’t it that a more expensive car is cheaper to “buy” than a cheaper one.
When I say buy obviously I mean lease but you know what I mean

I think the whole leasing method has made cars , not just this one , more expensive as another £50 per month doesn’t seem too bad as opposed to a higher upfront cost

Completely agree about leasing making cars more expensive in general.

[syslakm]

Originally Posted by WhiteFox

Around 95-120k depending on spec. I got to sit inside one and the styling and interior is just amazing. The BMW is over priced and in my personal opinion has zero style appeal with gloss black chunks of plastic everywhere and a rear that looks like something from the old 7 series.

Save the money and go with an M car or something like the lotus. Plus you get lots of boot space.

If they are priced about the same, the I can see the argument about the Lotus being more stylised than BMW.

However, here in the North America, people will then whip out the argument that Lotus is owned by Geely and that they would never buy cars by China.

Personally, I agree - Lotus is definitely more stylish but there's also less dealer support in North America which has to be considered.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by syslakm

If they are priced about the same, the I can see the argument about the Lotus being more stylised than BMW.

However, here in the North America, people will then whip out the argument that Lotus is owned by Geely and that they would never buy cars by China.

Personally, I agree - Lotus is definitely more stylish but there's also less dealer support in North America which has to be considered.

Volvos sell well

[syslakm]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Volvos sell well

Fair comment - I own one myself!

Though, separate discussion thread, I think a lot of the comments about VFM for the BMW i5 also likely applies to Volvo (ie. Priced the similarly as the German manufacturers but are they worth it?)

In the part of the world I live in, there are lot more Volvo dealerships (and BMW) than Lotus so some, that'd be a consideration in the Lotus vs BMW debate.

[Scrapula]

Our local Lotus dealer, in Bellevue, lists 3 models. All with no price and ‘call to order now’. Zero stock. I’m not sure how they stay in business.

[13 NF]

I think Joe is a good guy, clearly not wanting to bash any major manufacturers offerings for the fear of isolation, also trying to please the for/ against EV crowd, all in a 20 minute test drive, I think that’s the issue.

I am in the UK, and all I can say is £120k for a 5 series with a 200 mile range just isn’t going to work for too many people who don’t buy them as company cars, tax right down etc is/ was what was driving these EV cars sales.

Having sat in several i5’s I have to say it seems a lovely car, but then I look at the price tag and just laugh!!

I recently had an ix 50 as a loaner for 3 days, my X5 50e was going in for software issues( more of that later in the X5 bit)

But all I can say for a car costing £120k, it appeared to be cheaply made, ill thought out and irrelevant, I don’t know why it exists, and that range!!!

I have a 100 mile commute to work, I drive to work sedately, but invariably ‘gun it’ on the way home due to always being late!

The iX fully charged at home took 8 hrs and gave a promised range of around 300 miles ish, given it’s a loan car I applied the ‘thrash the shit out of it mentality’ it only ever retained around 100 miles of charge from my 100 mile round trip! In fact the last day I had it,I had to do around 180 miles in it, I felt embarished taking back to the dealer with 10 miles range in it after a sedate drive.

And styling ! It wouldnt look out of place as a the new Renault Espace!

So what’s the point of spending loads of cash on these things, buy a Hyundai for when you need those EV trips, and go get a fun car/ long range cruiser. Current EV tech is heavy and too slow to charge, and there’s no hiding from it.

My 50e really feels its weight over my previous 50d, and takes the driving pleasure away, let’s hope EV tech gets lighter and quicker to charge, and then we will all have to accept these cars better.

Back to the i5, good luck BMW your going to need it, once the dust has settled in 18 months time, they will need to invest in there customers and offer some major incentives right across there i range prices aren’t sustainable!

Sorry for rant, I don’t want to offend anyone, so please take my comments as my opinion

[Mac545]

Originally Posted by WhiteFox

Around 95-120k depending on spec. I got to sit inside one and the styling and interior is just amazing. The BMW is over priced and in my personal opinion has zero style appeal with gloss black chunks of plastic everywhere and a rear that looks like something from the old 7 series.

Save the money and go with an M car or something like the lotus. Plus you get lots of boot space.

The promotion photos look good, but that Lotus is awful looking in real life. Looks cheap and unless you spec to the highest possible is nothing special.

Plus….a Lotus….jeez come on….spending £100k+ on a car from a small British company with hardly any infrastructure and not exactly known for reliability……

I say each to their own….and I’ve made my decision. Good luck with yours…

[Eloh666]

Originally Posted by MJE_85

Am I missing something? He talks about the car being 90-120k pounds. I’ve pretty well close to fully loaded one up for about 112k CAD (65k pounds). Are UK prices that much more?

I get his concerns at 120k pounds - that’s absurd. But I built it out and thought the price was… reasonable.

Yes, very much so.
Italian here, livedin the UK for 8 years, now in British Columbia.
Imagine the UK prices being the same as the Canadian ones, +10% and in pounds as a rule of thumb.

There's a reason for which when you buy an expensive BMW the brand makes you sign a doc where you state you cannot export

[tsbrown]

Originally Posted by Mac545

Plus….a Lotus….jeez come on….spending £100k+ on a car from a small British company with hardly any infrastructure and not exactly known for reliability……

And I thought this was just an American perception. For a Brit to say this is a bit eye opening. Still I’d like to have an Elise or Exige just the same.

[WhiteFox]

Aston M, Rolls all small British Firms with a passion for cars both have had record sales- As for Chinese owned most people drive a Volvo as for Indian owned is range rovers. Both have had a record year in sales as well.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by syslakm

However, here in the North America, people will then whip out the argument that Lotus is owned by Geely and that they would never buy cars by China.

Hmmmm. Meanwhile, BYD takes over from Tesla as world’s leading EV maker…

[Deho]

Originally Posted by KiloCo

" California announced a plan to require all new vehicles sold in the state to be electric or plug-in electric hybrids by 2035."

I don't want an EV.

You can't drive one (EV) from San Diego to San Francisco (490 miles) without stopping. EV cars are good for short distances in Los Angeles traffic.

In 10-11 years time you'll very probably be able to buy an EV that fits your needs. Remember that this technology is at its infancy.

But also remember that your needs represent a very small niche; almost nobody drives 490 miles without stopping.

[rereynol]

Originally Posted by Deho

In 10-11 years time you'll very probably be able to buy an EV that fits your needs. Remember that this technology is at its infancy.

But also remember that your needs represent a very small niche; almost nobody drives 490 miles without stopping.

EV’s will routinely drive 600 miles without stopping by the end of the decade.

[AP]

Originally Posted by MJE_85

Am I missing something? He talks about the car being 90-120k pounds. I’ve pretty well close to fully loaded one up for about 112k CAD (65k pounds). Are UK prices that much more?

I get his concerns at 120k pounds - that’s absurd. But I built it out and thought the price was… reasonable.

I looked at a i5 m60 in a showroom a few weeks ago. Load up but don’t recall what was on it but lost price was £114000

Obviously there will be some discounts but even so…