[M2siast]

Originally Posted by secretariat

Victimhood, speed much?

…

[MrDit]

Originally Posted by M2audioman

😂 Who are these people willing to pay this kind of money for a car with 200mi of range?! The depreciation on this thing is going to be severe. Especially as battery degradation kicks in and the actual range drops below 200mi in a year or so. So many better EVs out there with more range and similar features for equal or less money. Lucid, Tesla, Merc, Audi, Porsche, etc. Honestly, releasing a luxury car like this in 2024 with range that bad is a joke.

I am one of those people, looked at some others you mentioned but ended up with the i5 M60 and very happy with it.

[msej449]

I think that Joe’s ambivalence about the car reflects a deeper contradiction, namely that the concept of an ‘M’ version doesn’t really align with an EV. You don’t have to do that much to get an EV to outperform an ICEV all other things being equal. So if you buy an EV ‘M’ then you’ll get a significantly superior powertrain, but as he implies, after a short while that becomes a bit ‘meh’, in part because there’s no associated soundtrack and no need for intervention by the driver, other than to put their foot down and get that immediate and linear pull. So what’s left is the undoubted excellence of BMW suspension and handling of a relatively heavy road car. Which is fine, but no compensation if your mental model of an ‘M’ involves lots of noise, gear changes and paddle control.

[Richbot]

Disclaimer: I've not tried an i5 but I think I need to help some enthusiasts out there understand the electric future doesn't have to suck

We've put 44,000 miles on an EV with about 250 miles of "real" highway range, in 38 months. Almost all of it was local driving, but at least 4000 of it has been road trips. Unlike our Tesla (a Model X Long Range Plus with 371 miles of rated range, lollerskates, that we bought instead of buying a traditional 3-row crossover) the BMW's actually meet or exceed their rated ranges, sometimes to an absurd degree. So unlike on a Tesla, 200 on the dash is 200 in freezing cold uphill both ways with no shoes on. Sortof like an F90 M5 has 600hp, at the wheels, on 85 octane at 9000' above sea level, with two spark plugs out

Electric drive is awesome. I also have an E90 M3 and the brain-foot-go feedback loop is better than the E90M from a "throttle response" perspective, leaving aside the fact that it's effortlessly quick, and I have a "slow" EV by EV standards, the Model X is nothing special, it's a squidgy soft heavy people-carrier that weighs 5600lb empty and is on the most milquetoast of tall-sidewall low rolling resistance tires, yet it delivers legitimately decent performance around a corner because a) immediate line adjustments with the throttle at a very granular level and b) the CG really is really, really low. Instead of engine noise you can hear what the tires are doing, which is important, because the tires are being punished mercilessly by all that mass. But you can feel what's going on, and it's exploitable, and predictable. These are things people who like to drive, ought to like. While I'm not much of a fan of the overall driving experience, the performance of the "fast" Teslas is brain-warping, particularly around ac orner where your brain doesn't understand how a car on such narrow tires, that is so heavy, can do such heroic things.

And if you just want A Good Daily Driver, the base, RWD, Model 3 is one of the best BMW 3-series ever sold, low grip, playful chassis, not expensive, small, steering not corrupted by a front motor, it's wonderful. I'm sure the 40e i4 rear-drive is similar - removing yet another droning 2.0turbo 4cylinder and replacing it with electric drive is the best thing I can think of to happen to the 3-series since the invention of 3-year leases

So I've sampled the electric future, as a long-time club racer, car enthusiast, and car appreciator, in the real world, and I give it a thumbs-up. Tesla, ehhh whatever, the cars are interesting enough but nothing special and underengineered in a lot of ways that make it annoying to live with, but electric drive? yayyy! Every car has big-block torque and naturally aspirated throttle response again!

Range ends up being a non-issue so long as you can charge overnight at home. If you can't, don't buy an EV.

If you want to road trip, don't buy an EV either, unless you're somebody who doesn't mind stopping a lot more than in your gas vehicle. With little kids it's not a big deal you're stopping a lot to stretch legs anyway, but for me personally, I don't road-trip outside of a ~350 mile radius from STL in the Tesla, just not worth the extra time. Unless I'm traveling for work, then I can get work done during the charge stops. We use our other cars for that stuff

I wouldn't own an EV as my only car, but as a two-car solution where one is an i5 M60 and the other is *insert gas vehicle*, that's a pretty nice setup. If you can turn off the voice assistant that is

That being said, i really only like electric drive because it can spice up what would otherwise be a boring, slow, high-CG tippy longstockings crossover experience for me. We wanted a 7-seater so we cross-shopped with GLS, X7, Tahoe, Sequioa, Land Cruiser etc. when we bought this thing, I wans't cross-shopping it with an M5; if I was, the Tesla's driving dynamics (holy shit, it's got room for 7 people but drives like a car!) wouldn't have been such a big differentiator. So far, there is no EV that is all that exciting as an enthusiast car to me, and I've tried a lot including Taycan and the various Tesla "fast" versions, and cheaper stuff like Mini SE and i3 and Bolt and etc. Taycan is aloof, Tesla's performance trims are half-baked particularly in ride/handling balance.

I'm still waiting for a proper small, quick, rear-drive EV that truly maximizes the potential for fun. I'm a little worried BMW M is going for Infinite Smash instead of taking the opportunity to make a lighter, funner, smaller experience out of their first EV. Cayman/Boxster EV may be the first attempt at a truly "fun as the first mission" ground-up EV that isn't just LOOK AT HOW MANY TORQUES WE HAVE

But the 5-series has always been a bit of a snooze, that's kind of the point, good dynamics that don't take center stage because it's meant to be a comfortable quiet executive sedan. I don't remember getting excited about the 540i 6-speed I drove and then ended up buying yet another 3-series instead. It was a fine car but it wasn't for people like me. The E60 non-M's did a nicer job from behind the wheel, but there were other uh...issues inflicted on us by Chris Bangle and the iDrive team. F10 was a total snoozefest, and the next model continued the "this is actually a 7-series" tradition up to present day.

And I can't stress this enough, if you don't want an EV, don't buy one, I promise nobody will make you.

[RichardInCA]

Again, that range estimate of 200 miles is way off base from real world experience (260-270miles for me). The “range” estimate on the dash is algorithmic based upon driving style - if you’ve got a bunch of journo’s each practicing launches and driving the car to its limits, it’s completely unsurprising to see a low range prediction.

[JustChris]

I've sat in a few now and I dont feel the interior qulaity is up to spec for the BMW 5 series. The scratchy door cards and black shiny plastic everywhere is dreadful. The seats are also entry level 5 series from 15 years ago. Yawn.

All the money when into a big screen and the battery and motor R&D.

Hard Pass till LCI improvements.

[ppointer]

I just do not understand BMWs unwillingness to import their wagons to the USA. Then, I see for 2023 their sedan sales are up while their SAV/SUV sales are down or flat. And still no G61 coming our way. I am beyond frustrated with their stance on this.

I am either A) going to try to get one imported on my own, or B) find a lightly used E450 estate.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by ppointer

I just do not understand BMWs unwillingness to import their wagons to the USA. Then, I see for 2023 their sedan sales are up while their SAV/SUV sales are down or flat. And still no G61 coming our way. I am beyond frustrated with their stance on this.

I am either A) going to try to get one imported on my own, or B) find a lightly used E450 estate.

I think EV-ification will help re-wagonification in the US. Homologation of bodies becomes the main regulatory hurdle rather than engines AND crash safety. And lower, long-roof is more efficient at highway speed than tall crossover with 10" of air under it. The Mustang Mach E is objectively a wagon if you put some good wheels on it and lower it a little. The upcoming Macan BEV looks a hell of a lot like a slightly overinflated wagon

That's my hope anyway. There are signs it's happening. And there's clearly a demand signal at least from enthusiasts propping up wagon values some, vs. same-platform sedan, even for boring-spec non-AMG/RS6/VolvoR's

If we would have bought an S212 E63 instead of the W212 we bought in 2018, when they cost about the same to buy, we'd be able to sell the S212 for about what we paid for it today.

The demand for practicality without excess has to be getting heard somewhere, surely?

[deutsch100]

Originally Posted by MrDit

I am one of those people, looked at some others you mentioned but ended up with the i5 M60 and very happy with it.

Me too. Before our weather turned "California Cold"...I was getting up 270+ miles on a full charge. One warm day charge, and I actually drove almost 300 miles on a single charge, before I plugged back in. I have no range regrets with my new i5 M60!

My 2022 i4 M50...almost 300 miles per charge. 2022 & 2023 iX 50...near 400 miles per charge! I mean actual miles driven!!

BMW EVs and Taycan...range is much higher than the manufacturers state!

[Scrapula]

Range is meaningless to me. This week, I drove to the doctor which was 23 miles away. That is the longest trip I ever make. I looked at and test drove many EVs. The only one that remotely interested me, besides the i4 and i5 was the Lucid Air Touring or Grand Touring spec. They all have pros and cons. Hyundai has very fast charging speeds. You are in and out in 18 minutes. The Ionic 5 is perfect for families. The Tacan was impractical. Tesla and Mercedes have that used bar of soap styling that I hate. The Mustang Mach E is fun, but has many issues and is too plain inside but nowhere near as plain as a Tesla. I also hate kitchens with white cabinets and counters. I want color and vibrancy. The light bar was one of the features I loved about the i5. The ability to order two tone color seats was a plus. I enjoy all the technology. I’m ready to retire and no longer am interested in boy racer cars. I want something smooth and quiet. I enjoy electric vehicles way more than ICE cars, now. The Lucid has a lot of color contrasts but only in one of their interior choices. That was limiting. Also, only a handful of exterior colors was disappointing. Now, that the Lucid Grand Touring has dropped to $115k, I might have given it more consideration. My budget was $100k, but I could have gone to $115.

When those of you who don’t understand why someone would shell out money for an i5 M60, when you have lived most of your life and all you want is quiet enjoyment, there is nothing better than an EV without all that raucous engine noise. Smooth immediate power, self driving on the highway, listening to music or an audio book, comfortable but not ostentatious. Things change when you get older. There is nothing better than a good book by the fire with a glass of cognac.

[jcal65]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

2009 Mazda 6 to be exact.

Wow, you truly opened my eyes with your comparison. I abandoned my G30 on the side of the road this morning and I am on the way to order a new G60. Goodbye rental car, hello, true BMW!

To get similar performance to my ’22 M550iX, I will have to go with the i5 M60. Sure, it’s more expensive with zero options and vinyl seats, but I cannot be seen in a Mazda. My dealer has 26 G60’s in stock and on the way, but I will special order.

I simply cannot stand the raucous V8 in my M550 any more.

[Jimjamz]

The EV character seems best tuned for luxury and effortless performance. Not Motorsport.

I remember when BMW deliberately said their I series cars would pursue a different philosophy to M cars for this reason. Given we’re ten years on, it’s inevitable the two will converge. But every time I get into an EV I keep thinking its core character is still best suited for luxury GT. As many have said in this thread, that’s exactly what they’re after as they get older.

The interesting thing for me is younger enthusiast drivers don’t seem to be so interested in going that way yet. Perhaps that’s why 50% of M2s shipped with a manual last year in the US?

Who would have thought EVs would end up targeting older drivers first. But based on these comments, it’s starting to make a lot more sense to me.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by jcal65

Wow, you truly opened my eyes with your comparison. I abandoned my G30 on the side of the road this morning and I am on the way to order a new G60. Goodbye rental car, hello, true BMW!

To get similar performance to my ’22 M550iX, I will have to go with the i5 M60. Sure, it’s more expensive with zero options and vinyl seats, but I cannot be seen in a Mazda. My dealer has 26 G60’s in stock and on the way, but I will special order.

I simply cannot stand the raucous V8 in my M550 any more.

G60 is an abomination

[PsychDoc]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

G60 is an abomination

C'mon now, tell us how you really feel. Don't hold back.

[MrDit]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

G60 is an abomination

Thank you for that insightful commentary. Why exactly do you think that??

[syslakm]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

Range is meaningless to me. This week, I drove to the doctor which was 23 miles away. That is the longest trip I ever make. I looked at and test drove many EVs. The only one that remotely interested me, besides the i4 and i5 was the Lucid Air Touring or Grand Touring spec. They all have pros and cons. Hyundai has very fast charging speeds. You are in and out in 18 minutes. The Ionic 5 is perfect for families. The Tacan was impractical. Tesla and Mercedes have that used bar of soap styling that I hate. The Mustang Mach E is fun, but has many issues and is too plain inside but nowhere near as plain as a Tesla. I also hate kitchens with white cabinets and counters. I want color and vibrancy. The light bar was one of the features I loved about the i5. The ability to order two tone color seats was a plus. I enjoy all the technology. I’m ready to retire and no longer am interested in boy racer cars. I want something smooth and quiet. I enjoy electric vehicles way more than ICE cars, now. The Lucid has a lot of color contrasts but only in one of their interior choices. That was limiting. Also, only a handful of exterior colors was disappointing. Now, that the Lucid Grand Touring has dropped to $115k, I might have given it more consideration. My budget was $100k, but I could have gone to $115.

When those of you who don’t understand why someone would shell out money for an i5 M60, when you have lived most of your life and all you want is quiet enjoyment, there is nothing better than an EV without all that raucous engine noise. Smooth immediate power, self driving on the highway, listening to music or an audio book, comfortable but not ostentatious. Things change when you get older. There is nothing better than a good book by the fire with a glass of cognac.

Here, here...

I have to say that I really enjoy the light bar - it's weird thing.. Sometimes I'm in the mood for lavender, other times olive, and other times ocean.

I remember going from my F30 340i to my Tesla Model 3, I was so much calmer. The minimalism of the tesla (no screen in front of you when you're driving) and the quiet nature of an EV powertrain, vs the information overload of the 340i, with the engine noise, and then driving manual (don't get me wrong, I love manual transmission cars), was a completely different experience.

For those with hectic jobs, sometimes what you want is quiet, simple and serene - and the i5 does that job quite well!

[nicksbmw2]

I have been driving 5 series for the last 17 years (Changed car every three to four years) I’ve owned a few and I’ve leased a few. My present car is a 2023 540i.

With that said, i had the opportunity to drive several EV vehicles while away for a month at a clip. Tesla’s, Polestar and another that I can’t remember at the moment. These EV’s are tin can on wheels. Yes they are quick and fast. No style. I could not feel comfortable in this cars. I did not feel the luxury, the smoothness. Maybe I”m not being fair coming from driving 5 series for 17 years.

A few weeks ago I had a chance to drive a i5. When I sat behind the wheel, I felt at home. The i5 cockpit felt no different than my 540.

By no means is this a review, its just my opinion. I’m not a fan of EV’s. This is where the world is heading. The infrastructure is not there yet. My frustration and anxiety at the same time was looking at the battery % and plan my drives to locate a charging station… it’s like planning my drives and make sure there was a bathroom available on my route so i could do my thing… Yes I'm old and I have old people issues. LOL

I purchased the 2023 540 because i think the 2024 5 series is hideous. Like some have said, It’s not a BMW its a combination of several cars. From the Bangle design to the F10 to the G30, wow those are great designs. Made this car unique and beautiful at the same time. 2024 car, What where they thinking, for laughing at loud.

Sorry for the long post

[Ugly Kar]

Originally Posted by jcal65

Wow, you truly opened my eyes with your comparison. I abandoned my G30 on the side of the road this morning and I am on the way to order a new G60. Goodbye rental car, hello, true BMW!

To get similar performance to my ’22 M550iX, I will have to go with the i5 M60. Sure, it’s more expensive with zero options and vinyl seats, but I cannot be seen in a Mazda. My dealer has 26 G60’s in stock and on the way, but I will special order.

I simply cannot stand the raucous V8 in my M550 any more.

Too bad you didn't wait for that rear tail light design taken straight from a 2020 Toyota Corolla. You can't get more advanced than that. And I'm sure you like that black blob on the front end better too.

I'm sure you're completely bummed out you didn't wait for the G60.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by M2audioman

You gotta chill on the number of commas and periods you use. It's overwhelming.

Also, I've driven the i5 M60. It's fine. Nothing special. A Model 3 Performance drives much better. So does the Lucid Air, Model S and Porsche Taycan. The ONLY comparable car the i5 drives better than is the EQE imo. I own 2 Teslas currently, I'm adding a Lotus Emira to my stable this month after selling my M2. I won't even consider a BMW EV until they get their design back on track and offer cars with a minimum of 350mi of range.

Stop buying the i5 to teach BMW a lesson. It is a car with subpar EV tech at a ridiculous price point given its competition.

I drove i5 too.
If you say Model 3 or Model S rides much better, you’re either lying, or you didn’t drive i5. There is no other option.

[Cortexiphan]

I see this false narrative around EV depreciation all around the place. I think this is coming from Tesla mostly, as Teslas depreciated a lot as a result of their huge reduction in their MSRPs.

But when you look at others, depreciation is in line with ICE cars, sometimes even less.
BMW iX and i4 were both released in 2021 as 2022 models. When you compare them to their ICE counterparts:

2022 BMW iX 50i at 30.000 miles value at resale: $55,000 - $63,000
2022 BMW X5 M50i at 30.000 miles value at resale: $58,000 - $62,000
( KBB, Excellent condition, both MSRP around $105,000)

2022 BMW i4 M50 at 30.000 miles value at resale: $46,000 - $50,000
2022 BMW M440i GranCoupe at 30.000 miles value at resale: $44,000 - $48,000
( KBB, Excellent condition, both MSRP around $70,000)

And this is despite iX and i4 having incentives when you buy it brand new - which lowers the resale value.
So what’s up with that?

And knowing a little about ICE and EV cars, I’d feel more comfortable buying a 2-3 year old EV over an ICE car. There are way less things to worry about in an EV. If the battery is good, you’re good to go. With an ICE car, especially if you’re looking at a V8 like M550i or X5 M50i or M60i… the list of things that can go wrong is long.

[Scrapula]

Can’t be seen in a Mazda? Well, they killed the 6 because no one buys sedans. They were finally going to put the straight 6 back in and ditch the turbo 4. It already had nappa leather comfort seats, double stitched leather dash with alcantara and wood, leather wrapped double stitched door panels. I assume you never bothered to look at them because they didn’t have the right name plate on the back.

[Jimjamz]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

Can’t be seen in a Mazda? Well, they killed the 6 because no one buys sedans. They were finally going to put the straight 6 back in and ditch the turbo 4. It already had nappa leather comfort seats, double stitched leather dash with alcantara and wood, leather wrapped double stitched door panels. I assume you never bothered to look at them because they didn’t have the right name plate on the back.

Mazdas are great cars with real rewards for enthusiast drivers. A Mazda MX-5 Miata would outperform most cars even on this forum for pure driving enjoyment.