[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

2009 Mazda 6 to be exact.

Exactly the same vehicles, I see no difference.

Then again, I crashed my M2 into an 18-wheeler this morning that just showed up out of nowhere in front of me in a one lane road with no intersections

[Scrapula]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Exactly the same vehicles, I see no difference.

Then again, I crashed my M2 into an 18-wheeler this morning that just showed up out of nowhere in front of me in a one lane road with no intersections

Oh, no! I assume that you are okay.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

Oh, no! I assume that you are okay.

I am!
But my doctor said I need new specs…

[MrDit]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I am!
But my doctor said I need new specs…

Good to hear you are ok and can apply some humour to a difficult situation.

[Eric500]

Originally Posted by Montaver

This car got cost cut to the bone

Yeah, not many if anyone in the YouTube videos or reviews are calling them out for it

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by Eric500

Yeah, not many if anyone in the YouTube videos or reviews are calling them out for it

The capex required to develop electric vehicles has absolutely crushed these traditional manufacturers. VW was crippled even earlier by the diesel scandal which is why they have barely developed anything outside of the ID (which is garbage) in a decade. Porsche have had no perceptible fall in quality, but they have also massively increased their prices, close to 20pc if you factor in the last few years. The fact this car is 120k GBP ($150k) is absolutely nuts however you compare it.

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by Montaver

The capex required to develop electric vehicles has absolutely crushed these traditional manufacturers. VW was crippled even earlier by the diesel scandal which is why they have barely developed anything outside of the ID (which is garbage) in a decade. Porsche have had no perceptible fall in quality, but they have also massively increased their prices, close to 20pc if you factor in the last few years. The fact this car is 120k GBP ($150k) is absolutely nuts however you compare it.

Glad it was capex then, otherwise they would’ve gone bankrupt if I follow you

[BMWKLG]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL78

Maybe to Helen Keller.

This was funny. 😂

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Glad it was capex then, otherwise they would’ve gone bankrupt if I follow you

The cost of designing/sourcing/tooling/manufacturing this generation of electric vehicles has absolutely suffocated the traditional auto makers. BMW set a target in 2019 to reduce manufacturing cost per vehicle by 25% to pay for it essentially. There are some efficiencies to be had, but a lot of it can only be done by squeezing every penny. David Twohig who was a senior engineer at Nissan/Renault/Alpine recently wrote a great book on his time in the industry which gives some great insight. BMW are still doing well but it’s a globally very diverging market, especially between US and Europe. China has fierce local competition now from electric car brands. It’s evolve or die, and evolving is expensive. There are certain brands that will be basically dead in 10 years, like Infiniti or Dodge if they get it wrong. I’m glad BMW still have the budget to develop the interesting stuff but I think the next decade in cars is going to get very challenging and I wouldn’t be surprised to see some big casualties.

[RichardInCA]

Originally Posted by Montaver

The cost of designing/sourcing/tooling/manufacturing this generation of electric vehicles has absolutely suffocated the traditional auto makers. BMW set a target in 2019 to reduce manufacturing cost per vehicle by 25% to pay for it essentially. There are some efficiencies to be had, but a lot of it can only be done by squeezing every penny. David Twohig who was a senior engineer at Nissan/Renault/Alpine recently wrote a great book on his time in the industry which gives some great insight. BMW are still doing well but it’s a globally very diverging market, especially between US and Europe. China has fierce local competition now from electric car brands. It’s evolve or die, and evolving is expensive. There are certain brands that will be basically dead in 10 years, like Infiniti or Dodge if they get it wrong. I’m glad BMW still have the budget to develop the interesting stuff but I think the next decade in cars is going to get very challenging and I wouldn’t be surprised to see some big casualties.

Great analysis

[M2audioman]

😂 Who are these people willing to pay this kind of money for a car with 200mi of range?! The depreciation on this thing is going to be severe. Especially as battery degradation kicks in and the actual range drops below 200mi in a year or so. So many better EVs out there with more range and similar features for equal or less money. Lucid, Tesla, Merc, Audi, Porsche, etc. Honestly, releasing a luxury car like this in 2024 with range that bad is a joke.

[JMD]

Ok,..I watched Joe's vid on the i5 M60,...and the biggest thing he left me with was this,...it is my opinion he was afraid to be a top tier YouTube auto reviewer that actually says he 'LIKES' the i5 M60 for what it is! I mean,...really! I mean, I've yet to drive the i5 M60,...so I can't say whether or not if BMW did well with the G60! But! But!! But!!! I will say this,...and I know this,...I drove the i4 M50,...and if there was a way for BMW to pipe in exactly 100% B58 sounds,...at various gear changes,...engine speeds, etc., other than the weight difference one would be hard press to know if they were in the ICE version or EV version of the i4 M50. However, I suppose a tale-tale sign would be the WHOPPING Torque Hit one experiences from .000001 RPM. The i4 M50 is quite solid,...and I certainly would not expect BMW to build a cheesy 5-series. That said, I will make it a point to go test drive an i5 M60 as soon as I can.

Joe,...if you're get around to reading this,...c'mon man, be your own man and be truthful about the i5 M60.

Lastly, if you were expecting sounds and nuances of an "ICE" when driving the i5 M60,...the I would suggest you stick only to reviewing ICE vehicles,...of which, you appear to be more honest with your audience. Because that review you did on the i5 M60 didn't cut the mustard! I mean, if you don't have no more than 20 minutes to evaluate a vehicle,...then why even bother!

So, there you have it,...my review of Joe's review.

Lastly,...I cannot wait 'til you guys line up the i4 M50,...the i5 M60,...and their competition and equivalent ICE versions and see who crosses the finish lines first. I mean,...you guys often measure the soul of a vehicle by it's 0-60 times. I don't know about you,...or a bag full of other auto reviews,...but I can easily recall that even though there were many cars made 'back-in-the-day' that were faster than BMWs to,...say, 60 Mph,...or even the 1/4 mile. However,...and this is extremely important,...once you through in a few curves,...some dog legs,...some double switch backs,...those in non-BMWs final understand,...it's not about the straight line stuff - it's about the Handling,...and that is something many,...I mean many car reviewers miss in their evaluation! And very lastly,...then came the Legendary E28 ///M5,...and that's when BMW took the gloves off,...and start the ///M beat-down on offerings from many manufacturers. I distinctly recall that I do not remember breathing the first time behind the steering wheel of a Dakar Yellow M3,...test driven at Casey BMW in Hampton, VA. Good Lord!

PS: C'mon Joe,...be honest to yourself,...and your viewers.

[mckman]

Originally Posted by AP

Out of interest, those in the U.K. may notice that the road he was on the same road that other YouTubers use, namely harry metcalfe and “number 27”

I’ve driven on it myself and it is a good driving road , can see why they choose it
That s bend with the dip is quite a challenging bend. On my m550, the satnav warns you about this being a dangerous curve

Thanks! I regularly watch Harry's Garage. Kind of thought that might be the same road.

[M2audioman]

Originally Posted by JMD

Ok,..I watched Joe's vid on the i5 M60,...and the biggest thing he left me with was this,...it is my opinion he was afraid to be a top tier YouTube auto reviewer that actually says he 'LIKES' the i5 M60 for what it is! I mean,...really! I mean, I've yet to drive the i5 M60,...so I can't say whether or not if BMW did well with the G60! But! But!! But!!! I will say this,...and I know this,...I drove the i4 M50,...and if there was a way for BMW to pipe in exactly 100% B58 sounds,...at various gear changes,...engine speeds, etc., other than the weight difference one would be hard press to know if they were in the ICE version or EV version of the i4 M50. However, I suppose a tale-tale sign would be the WHOPPING Torque Hit one experiences from .000001 RPM. The i4 M50 is quite solid,...and I certainly would not expect BMW to build a cheesy 5-series. That said, I will make it a point to go test drive an i5 M60 as soon as I can.

Joe,...if you're get around to reading this,...c'mon man, be your own man and be truthful about the i5 M60.

Lastly, if you were expecting sounds and nuances of an "ICE" when driving the i5 M60,...the I would suggest you stick only to reviewing ICE vehicles,...of which, you appear to be more honest with your audience. Because that review you did on the i5 M60 didn't cut the mustard! I mean, if you don't have no more than 20 minutes to evaluate a vehicle,...then why even bother!

So, there you have it,...my review of Joe's review.

Lastly,...I cannot wait 'til you guys line up the i4 M50,...the i5 M60,...and their competition and equivalent ICE versions and see who crosses the finish lines first. I mean,...you guys often measure the soul of a vehicle by it's 0-60 times. I don't know about you,...or a bag full of other auto reviews,...but I can easily recall that even though there were many cars made 'back-in-the-day' that were faster than BMWs to,...say, 60 Mph,...or even the 1/4 mile. However,...and this is extremely important,...once you through in a few curves,...some dog legs,...some double switch backs,...those in non-BMWs final understand,...it's not about the straight line stuff - it's about the Handling,...and that is something many,...I mean many car reviewers miss in their evaluation! And very lastly,...then came the Legendary E28 ///M5,...and that's when BMW took the gloves off,...and start the ///M beat-down on offerings from many manufacturers. I distinctly recall that I do not remember breathing the first time behind the steering wheel of a Dakar Yellow M3,...test driven at Casey BMW in Hampton, VA. Good Lord!

PS: C'mon Joe,...be honest to yourself,...and your viewers.

You gotta chill on the number of commas and periods you use. It's overwhelming.

Also, I've driven the i5 M60. It's fine. Nothing special. A Model 3 Performance drives much better. So does the Lucid Air, Model S and Porsche Taycan. The ONLY comparable car the i5 drives better than is the EQE imo. I own 2 Teslas currently, I'm adding a Lotus Emira to my stable this month after selling my M2. I won't even consider a BMW EV until they get their design back on track and offer cars with a minimum of 350mi of range.

Stop buying the i5 to teach BMW a lesson. It is a car with subpar EV tech at a ridiculous price point given its competition.

[AP]

Yeh it’s a great road to drive on just north of Burford

Back to his review
Whilst I don’t personally like the car, there is obviously some good aspects to it
The ride . A lot of that may be due to bmw choosing to put normal rather than run flat tyres on, even with 21 inch tyres in this case
Handling , he states it’s good despite it weight

Comfort again good.

But for me I think the idea is flawed. The range just isn’t enough for me especially when I don’t have anywhere to charge at home

The artificial noise , I would have to turn that off as it irritated just watching the video! Seems very gimmicky

Interior ( I say in one at the Munich IAA ) just do want do it for me. Whether you like idrive 8.5 or not, there is certainly a feeling it doesn’t look as expensive as the g30.

The price , ok that may work leasing for business but private buyers, that’s a huge jump over a similarly specced m550 which you might argue is it’s natural predecessor based upon performance.

At the end of the day, it didn’t matter what any of us think, if you like fair enough. But I think bmw could have done better , we know what they are capable of

Be interesting to see what residuals are like in 3 years as that will determine lease rates then.

What’s interesting is how string views are about these new EVs, on both sides.

[dazzapb]

Originally Posted by M2audioman

😂 Who are these people willing to pay this kind of money for a car with 200mi of range?! The depreciation on this thing is going to be severe. Especially as battery degradation kicks in and the actual range drops below 200mi in a year or so. So many better EVs out there with more range and similar features for equal or less money. Lucid, Tesla, Merc, Audi, Porsche, etc. Honestly, releasing a luxury car like this in 2024 with range that bad is a joke.

Battery degradation in a year? You mean 15 years? Jeez so much hate. Depreciation at the end of term? Couldn’t care less if that’s factored in the lease/financial product this is true of all EVs. Not all of us need over 200 miles of range. If you are searching for quality then many of those brands are out definitely Tesla

[IcEWoLF]

I like the new M60 but range is also a problem. The range needs to be 300 miles plus at least before most people would consider this.

If I were in the market for a new car I’d try to get my hands on a lightly used 2023 M550.

[SweEngineer]

Joe is a credible guy, knowing he is a BMW enthusiast and have owned several BMWs.
I recently drove the i5 M60 and was a bit disappointed also.
Sure it's very fast and corners well, the suspension was really good also but that's about it. But how can an EV get exciting? They are fast but soulless. I own an EV6 gt-line, same history there. By the way the ev6 has been an excellent car and drives amazing.

My biggest gripes with the g60 is that it's a bit compromised due to lacking interior quality.
Don't like that leather can't be had on the dash, ugly seats, too much hard plastic here and there. The lack of buttons sure doesn't make it better. The Hans Zimmer sounds made me cringe so turned it off immediately. G30 sure feels and is a more expensive interior.

So all in all after the drive, got back in my car and felt. Oh I'm not missing out on much at all driving a KIA. Bash me all you want, but ev6 Is half the price and comes with the same range, great comfort and options with excellent quality. Sure the infotainment isn't up there but you get my point.

Maybe what I'm trying to say Is that for these crazy prices you'd want more excellence and not compromises.

[Theophilus]

Since range is a persistent complaint here, I wonder if it’s feasible for BMW to improve range with a software update. I believe Lucid did something like this.

[AP]

They might be able to tweak it by limiting power but it’s probably down to how efficient the power train is.
Harry’s garage has mentioned in some of his review that some cars just are not that efficient which dents thei range. Mercedes had that prototype car that was far more efficient and produced a ice like range so it can be done

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by Mac545

I completely understand, but there’s no opposition….(in my situation)
I’ve had a ‘15 M5 and loved it, I’ve had a Clio V6, a Subaru Impreza STI blobeye, an Audi S6 V10….and I LOVE the noise… the drama…..
But I love acceleration, because speed means nothing. Acceleration is what you feel. Electric cars have that in abundance……

I’m coming from a Tesla 3 performance which has been brilliant. I’ve loved every minute, apart from auto wipers lol.

Merc’s look awful, Audi Etron gt is old now, porsche Taycan is nice looking but again old, and ridiculous option list makes leasing unrealistic.

Sooooo, that’s why BMW i5 M60 is my choice……best of all worlds as I can work out….

Clio V6? nice.

[secretariat]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Exactly the same vehicles, I see no difference.

Then again, I crashed my M2 into an 18-wheeler this morning that just showed up out of nowhere in front of me in a one lane road with no intersections

Victimhood, speed much?