[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

He wasn't lying, he was auditioning for a job as a IPCC researcher. May be The University of East Anglia (UEA) or NOAA has a job opening for another pathological liar?

I wouldn't be surprised, to feed the U N through ip cc with more fairy tales, plenty where he came.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Sales 101
You don't push an inferior product
It's always the alpines and the kickers before the pioneers and Kenwood's when you sold car audio in the 2000s
Then there are the Duals which were bottom of the barrel
EVs are somewhere between that and a cheap Kenwood deck

lol...no, it is actually the opposite .....they can't make any money on service or service contracts

[RM7]

Originally Posted by gblansten

For dealers around 50 percent of their profit comes from service and parts. EVs are a disaster to the standard dealer model. And they have to build the support structure to recharge cars on the lot. I understand why dealers would be poorly aligned on core values to promote EVs. I don’t blame them one bit for not pushing EVs.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/w...ng%20to%20NADA.

Good, they deserve to burn.

[M3WC]

Volkswagen says EV orders are down 50% in Europe

https://electrek.co/2023/10/26/volks...own-50-europe/

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Volkswagen says EV orders are down 50% in Europe

https://electrek.co/2023/10/26/volks...own-50-europe/

The EV dream is slowly dying as people realise more the bigger picture, the thing is the gub ments are in a deep sleep scared to admit, letting things drag on happy to waste public money trying to 'control' the sinking ship. They've made a huge blunder (like the diesel debacle of before over here) believing the wrong people and no one wants to carry the can.

[gonzo]

They're all hemorrhaging money. Non organic business many times does.
Like forcing people to dance together. It just looks wrong and uncomfortable.

[M5Rick]

Mustangs won't sell, no wonder Ford is losing masses of money and it gets worse for other EV's.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Mustangs won't sell, no wonder Ford is losing masses of money and it gets worse for other EV's.

To be fair, the amount of discounts coming may let me finally reach for one if I ever convince the wife to leave her BMW for a .... Ford

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by kyriian

To be fair, the amount of discounts coming may let me finally reach for one if I ever convince the wife to leave her BMW for a .... Ford

I test drove a Mustang Mach E at the beginning of September. Mostly out of curiosity but also considering finally retiring my 400,000-mile E90. For personal reasons I'll not get into, it would be nice to have in the fleet a reliable car that has easy entry and exit with a large trunk for short trips (100 miles a day).

Tesla's are godawful ugly and the user interface is 99% too techy for my needs, and the interiors are too cheap feeling. The Hyndai Iconiq 5 is attractive to my eye, but the Mach E I think is styled quite well inside and out. I'm a Ford guy at heart too, with 9 Ford's owned since 1978. And I bought a Bronco last year.

I joined the Mach E forum to capture the ownership experience. Mach E (MME in fanboi speak) have problems, and they are stupid engineering problems. The 12V battery, which runs most of the user touch points is undersized at just 35 amp-hours and the MME doesn't keep it properly charged.

The battery controller, known as the high-voltage battery junction box (HVBJB) has heat management issues and is improperly heat sinked. Drive the MME for hours at highway speed, then pull in to DC fast charge, and you can weld shut the current flow contactors, which bricks the car. Ford has since issued a software update to indirectly monitor heat in the contacors and now prevents thermal shutdown.

The doors are over complicated. There is no physical door handle. The door is electrically released and popped open using a button on the B-pillar or via a phone app. Guess what, when the 12V battery dies (from under charging) you can't get in the car. You have to pull an access plate from the front bumper and jump terminals. That pops the frunk. Then you pull interior frunk trim panels off to access the 12V battery to power the doors. Today I read a thread on how the plunger that pops the door open can get out of sync with the locking system and fail open, so you can't close the frickin' door. Idiocy.

Ford recently switched the battery chemistry so now the standard range battery is more susceptible to winter range loss.

I decided to stick with my tried and true 2006 BMW. LOL.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I test drove a Mustang Mach E at the beginning of September. Mostly out of curiosity but also considering finally retiring my 400,000-mile E90. For personal reasons I'll not get into, it would be nice to have in the fleet a reliable car that has easy entry and exit with a large trunk for short trips (100 miles a day).

Tesla's are godawful ugly and the user interface is 99% too techy for my needs, and the interiors are too cheap feeling. The Hyndai Iconiq 5 is attractive to my eye, but the Mach E I think is styled quite well inside and out. I'm a Ford guy at heart too, with 9 Ford's owned since 1978. And I bought a Bronco last year.

I joined the Mach E forum to capture the ownership experience. Mach E (MME in fanboi speak) have problems, and they are stupid engineering problems. The 12V battery, which runs most of the user touch points is undersized at just 35 amp-hours and the MME doesn't keep it properly charged.

The battery controller, known as the high-voltage battery junction box (HVBJB) has heat management issues and is improperly heat sinked. Drive the MME for hours at highway speed, then pull in to DC fast charge, and you can weld shut the current flow contactors, which bricks the car. Ford has since issued a software update to indirectly monitor heat in the contacors and now prevents thermal shutdown.

The doors are over complicated. There is no physical door handle. The door is electrically released and popped open using a button on the B-pillar or via a phone app. Guess what, when the 12V battery dies (from under charging) you can't get in the car. You have to pull an access plate from the front bumper and jump terminals. That pops the frunk. Then you pull interior frunk trim panels off to access the 12V battery to power the doors. Today I read a thread on how the plunger that pops the door open can get out of sync with the locking system and fail open, so you can't close the frickin' door. Idiocy.

Ford recently switched the battery chemistry so now the standard range battery is more susceptible to winter range loss.

I decided to stick with my tried and true 2006 BMW. LOL.

Those are defenitely things I'd be worried about when the wife drives the kid to school.
Think I'll just stick to my own plans to find a PHEV in a few years, just make more sense up here in the north.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I test drove a Mustang Mach E at the beginning of September. Mostly out of curiosity but also considering finally retiring my 400,000-mile E90. For personal reasons I'll not get into, it would be nice to have in the fleet a reliable car that has easy entry and exit with a large trunk for short trips (100 miles a day).

Tesla's are godawful ugly and the user interface is 99% too techy for my needs, and the interiors are too cheap feeling. The Hyndai Iconiq 5 is attractive to my eye, but the Mach E I think is styled quite well inside and out. I'm a Ford guy at heart too, with 9 Ford's owned since 1978. And I bought a Bronco last year.

I joined the Mach E forum to capture the ownership experience. Mach E (MME in fanboi speak) have problems, and they are stupid engineering problems. The 12V battery, which runs most of the user touch points is undersized at just 35 amp-hours and the MME doesn't keep it properly charged.

The battery controller, known as the high-voltage battery junction box (HVBJB) has heat management issues and is improperly heat sinked. Drive the MME for hours at highway speed, then pull in to DC fast charge, and you can weld shut the current flow contactors, which bricks the car. Ford has since issued a software update to indirectly monitor heat in the contacors and now prevents thermal shutdown.

The doors are over complicated. There is no physical door handle. The door is electrically released and popped open using a button on the B-pillar or via a phone app. Guess what, when the 12V battery dies (from under charging) you can't get in [...]

I spent some time in the jaguar ipace forum..scared the daylights out of me...came close to buying one but mrs flat out refused to let me.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Volkswagen says EV orders are down 50% in Europe

https://electrek.co/2023/10/26/volks...own-50-europe/

Cuz nobody wants a POS VW

You won’t find any VW in any top 25 list of the best selling cars in the world….you’ll find a couple Tesla’s near the top though


Btw, it’s not just VW struggling with trying to catch Tesla in the EV market

[XutvJet]

Why is it that most EVs use so many overly complicated electronic gimics such as the Ford Mustang E door issue? We're over 10 years into EVs being mainstream. There's no need to make them any more overly complex than most other cars on the road when it comes to interfaces.

Just because it has an EV drivtrain doesn't mean everything else about the car needs to be different, complex, overly minimalist, etc. I think that's one thing where automakers are really missing the mark if they want to appeal to more of the population.

[freakystyly]

I'm terribly happy with my gimmick free car. Not even a back up camera. Too bad they don't exist any more after 2018.

EVs have always been odd for the sake of being odd, I sometimes wonder if it was meant to deter sales.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Why is it that most EVs use so many overly complicated electronic gimics such as the Ford Mustang E door issue? We're over 10 years into EVs being mainstream. There's no need to make them any more overly complex than most other cars on the road when it comes to interfaces.

Just because it has an EV drivtrain doesn't mean everything else about the car needs to be different, complex, overly minimalist, etc. I think that's one thing where automakers are really missing the mark if they want to appeal to more of the population.

100% agree. Tesla has recessed door handles so the Mach E gets NONE! (one upmanship). Tesla's have a BIG TV screen, so does the Mach E! Tesla's use a smart phone as a key, so does the Mach E.

Like smooth doors without protruding door handles drop the coefficient of drag any significant amount. Lol. If I want the big TV just let me plug it into a mount on the dash, or otherwise I'll set up the configurables and then take the screen out. I don't need to see the map when I'm driving to my office; I already know how to get there.

Neat! My phone can open the door! Wowee! WGAF?

And for God's sake, the car has a giant 91kWh battery, but it can't keep a tiny 35 amp-hour battery fully charged? It's worse than a BMW!

[DrFerry]

Toyota Chairman Says “People Are Finally Seeing Reality” Of EVs.
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2057427

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Toyota Chairman Says “People Are Finally Seeing Reality” Of EVs.
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2057427

Someone should start a thread on this news from Toyota.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Cuz nobody wants a POS VW

So what, you want Chevrolet Bolt? If you Green Grifters hope to get more people conned into EV's maybe you should have some selection that doesn't cost the better half of $60,000.00.
So here is how this is going to go down. The early adopters (kool aid drinks) are leasing or buying with Government incentives (ie Tax payer money) and will turn over their used EV's with in 2 to 3 years or 40,000 miles. The used market will be incentivized or conned by artificially high gas prices into picking these cars up. They will then enter into technology hell and battery issues with no warranty service to fall back on and from which only personal bankruptcy will free them. They will never buy another EV and will tell all their friends their story of woe and regret. One more nail in the EV coffin.

Or you could have let the free market develop and bring products to market that work and people want. Starting with electric assisted small displacement turbo engines and moving to ward full EV's. Nah, not when you can force people to do something because that always turns out well in history.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Ford's Model E 2023 Q3 Earnings:

$1.3 billion loss ($3.1 billion total loss Q1-Q3)

Negative EBIT margin of -75.6%

Ford Cuts EV Investment After Losing $36,000 On Every EV Sold In Q3

Ford's Model e EV unit said it would cut Mustang Mach-E production and delay a battery plant.

https://insideevs.com/news/693626/fo...ry-ev-sold-q3/

[XutvJet]

Hertz is dialing back it's EV fleet plans due to shit EV resale and higher than expected repair costs. Their EV fleet has a taken a significant chunk out of their profitability.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/26/hert...air-costs.html

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Hertz is dialing back it's EV fleet plans due to shit EV resale and higher than expected repair costs. Their EV fleet has a taken a significant chunk out of their profitability.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/26/hert...air-costs.html

The article was lacking real direct data from Hertz regarding the "higher than expected maintenance costs for EV". It cited a less mature parts logistics system for EV and Teslas and some 3rd party speculation about EV weight and torque delivery as increasing tire and suspension wear. It would be nice to see real data.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Ford Cuts EV Investment After Losing $36,000 On Every EV Sold In Q3

Ford's Model e EV unit said it would cut Mustang Mach-E production and delay a battery plant.

https://insideevs.com/news/693626/fo...ry-ev-sold-q3/

"The narrative has taken over that EVs aren't growing; they're growing. It's just growing at a slower pace than the industry and, quite frankly, we expected," Ford Chief Financial Officer John Lawler said on the earnings call according to Automotive News. Lawler said Ford will need less EV capacity in the near term as demand has "softened."


Translated as despite the rhetoric and the legislation and incentive etc the customers aren't prepared to pay for their own punishment.