[Scrapula]

Originally Posted by JK479

It takes a LONG time to get used to that tech. One of the reasons I never jumped in is I like buttons. Normal gauges. But BMW is essentially on a Tesla like mission here.

Not sure I’d agree with ikea on the Highland. Maybe the 2023 model 3. There’s an air of sophistication that now is present on the 2024. Id encourage you to have a look. You might be right- it’s not for you. But it’s atleast worth a look in person.

My next door neighbor has 2 Model Y’s (his and hers). I just wasn’t impressed. I like the Model S, because it at least has a dashboard and better exterior stying, but it really needs a refresh. If that happens, then I will take a look. At the Seattle Electrify Expo last year, I looked at all of them, along with many other vehicles.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

I like the Model S, because it at least has a dashboard and better exterior stying, but it really needs a refresh.

Agreed! The S has some road presence thanks to its long low profile. I think the Plaid with its wider fenders and aggressive wheel/tire package looks particularly good.

It is in need of a refresh though. It’s been on the market for 12 years with nothing significant changed… incremental updates only. Hopefully that doesn’t mean the loss of the dashboard. RIP turn stalk though I bet, lol.

[JK479]

Originally Posted by Scrapula

My next door neighbor has 2 Model Y’s (his and hers). I just wasn’t impressed. I like the Model S, because it at least has a dashboard and better exterior stying, but it really needs a refresh. If that happens, then I will take a look. At the Seattle Electrify Expo last year, I looked at all of them, along with many other vehicles.

It’s not everyone’s cup of tea- but the new headlight cluster on the Model 3 allows it’s DRL to remain on while the turn signal is a separate led. I’m not onboard with cars that shut off the DRL for turns. BMW recently adopted the DRL turns into a turn signal. Better but I like the old way bmw used to do their headlights.

[DaveDBD]

A luxury vehicle has things even if rarely used like an umbrella on a Rolls Royce. BMW appears to be in a mission to cut costs by removing features that cost money. Even Ford is getting rid of auto parallel parking to save $60/vehicle because only 5% use it.

One issue with the touchscreen controls is only one thing can be changed each touch. Many times my wife and I want to change our side cabin temp, heated seat level, heated steering wheel and radio channel which all have to be done sequentially. Very annoying in the iX loaner.

If I wanted a Tesla touchscreen experience I would just get a Tesla. BMW is chasing the wrong customer by their cost reduction changes IMHO.

I doubt I will get a G60 after my 2023 540 because as noted the new interior is less user friendly.

[RichardInCA]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

A luxury vehicle has things even if rarely used like an umbrella on a Rolls Royce. BMW appears to be in a mission to cut costs by removing features that cost money. Even Ford is getting rid of auto parallel parking to save $60/vehicle because only 5% use it.

One issue with the touchscreen controls is only one thing can be changed each touch. Many times my wife and I want to change our side cabin temp, heated seat level, heated steering wheel and radio channel which all have to be done sequentially. Very annoying in the iX loaner.

If I wanted a Tesla touchscreen experience I would just get a Tesla. BMW is chasing the wrong customer by their cost reduction changes IMHO.

I doubt I will get a G60 after my 2023 540 because as noted the new interior is less user friendly.

I kinda agree with this, but also think that the voice assistant is actually better than most people realize and can make changes to settings that would otherwise take many taps and clicks of the idrive wheel

[BMW012]

just test drove the 540i and enjoyed the ride!

few things noticed,

1) bottom of seat is quite hard...not sure if luxury seating option or merino option would make it softer?
2) tho it had m sport brakes, didn't seem to react as good or maybe i have to get used to the travel?
3) bowers and wilkins sound seems to be better than the HK in the g60.
4) can hear the turbo noise but didn't hear any burbles. seems like even if its the same engine you need to get the cars with the m lite designations (i.e. m340i, m440i)
5) the non run flats 19s do make the car more pleasant to drive without feedback/vibrations

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by RichardInCA

I kinda agree with this, but also think that the voice assistant is actually better than most people realize and can make changes to settings that would otherwise take many taps and clicks of the idrive wheel

True, but that slight advantage is countered by the disadvantage of having to use the touchscreen for everything else. And, unless it’s vastly superior to Siri, Alexa, and Hey Google (doubtful?), certain people’s voices will just not register properly.

[Scrapula]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

True, but that slight advantage is countered by the disadvantage of having to use the touchscreen for everything else. And, unless it’s vastly superior to Siri, Alexa, and Hey Google (doubtful?), certain people’s voices will just not register properly.

I have had no issues with it. I can also tell Alexa at home to tell my BMW something. You just say Alexa, then say BMW, then the command. I do this to warm up the car.

[DaveDBD]

When two or more people are in the car, you have to tell everyone to shutup so you can give a voice command vs just quietly pushing a button on the dash. And you have to learn all of the correctly worded commands like a trained monkey. Again, not my idea of a luxury car. To each their own of course..

Oh and some things have no voice commands eg changing from adaptive cruise to speed cruise. Whereas before it was on rhe steering wheel, now it is buried deep in the screen menus.

[LVBMW]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

When two or more people are in the car, you have to tell everyone to shutup so you can give a voice command vs just quietly pushing a button on the dash. And you have to learn all of the correctly worded commands like a trained monkey. Again, not my idea of a luxury car. To each their own of course..

Oh and some things have no voice commands eg changing from adaptive cruise to speed cruise. Whereas before it was on rhe steering wheel, now it is buried deep in the screen menus.

It’s the best voice command of any luxury car I’ve had because you don’t have to memorize any commands. You just ask for what you want using natural language. It also learns through online speech processing if you allow it through the privacy settings. Of course it can’t do literally anything, but why would you even want to turn off the safety of adaptive cruise and replace it with basic cruise? I think most would never want to do that thus it’s not the easiest change to make.

[DaveDBD]

Because on some roads the adaptive cruise slows for parked cars. Also on low traffic highways you come up on semis going slow and your car slows down whereas speed control you unconsciously move over to go around. Regardless, if BMW removes button control it should have voice control.

I am glad your voice control worked for you. It didn’t like me, especially navigation.

[stormchaser]

I have a 23 G30 and have driven the G60 as well. I would concur with your assessment. The G30 to me is a bit stiff riding even on non-run flat tires (Do you agree)? The G60 was less stiff on bumps.

I agree the G60 also did not feel heavier and the steering was quicker to respond. However, I don't like light and responsive steering and thought it was a bit too responsive on the G60 (Easier to drift).

I agree the interior feels less quality and did not like the touch screen versus buttons. That said getting out of a G60 and getting back into a G30 felt like I was going back in time (Older technology). The ride quality alone might make me consider the G60. Also, it is rated at 35 MPG on the highway (4 cylinders) whereas my G30 at 32. Is it that much better on MPG? How did they do that (Drag coefficient or engine tuning?); That's impressive for a much heavier car.

Finally, the basic sport seat in the G60 felt more comfortable (Soft) than my G30 Nappa leather MC seats with the massage that is firm and not uncomfortable. The person above has 2019 MC seats that I think were sensatec. those were likely more comfortable than the required leather package on post-LCI (BMW American Fail). I would miss the grab handles I have on the G30 as well that the G60 got rid of.

I need to spend more time in a G60 before making the switch but did like the car.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by stormchaser

I have a 23 G30 and have driven the G60 as well. I would concur with your assessment. The G30 to me is a bit stiff riding even on non-run flat tires (Do you agree)? The G60 was less stiff on bumps.

I agree the G60 also did not feel heavier and the steering was quicker to respond. However, I don't like light and responsive steering and thought it was a bit too responsive on the G60 (Easier to drift).

I agree the interior feels less quality and did not like the touch screen versus buttons. That said getting out of a G60 and getting back into a G30 felt like I was going back in time (Older technology). The ride quality alone might make me consider the G60. Also, it is rated at 35 MPG on the highway (4 cylinders) whereas my G30 at 32. Is it that much better on MPG? How did they do that (Drag coefficient or engine tuning?); That's impressive for a much heavier car.

Finally, the basic sport seat in the G60 felt more comfortable (Soft) than my G30 Nappa leather MC seats with the massage that is firm and not uncomfortable. The person above has 2019 MC seats that I think were sensatec. those were likely more comfortable than the required leather package on post-LCI (BMW American Fail). I would miss the grab handles I have on the G30 as well that the G60 got rid of.

I need to spend more time in a G60 before making the switch but did like the car.

Regarding mileage, what are the City and Combined ratings? Vehicle curb weight is much less influential on the Highway rating. Are you comparing both as RWD 4 cyl models?

Also, I have not read the stats, but what is the difference in drag coefficient (cd) and frontal area (m2) for the two? The G60 is a little bigger car but it probably has a lower drag coefficient. Maybe lower rolling resistance tires as well?

[BMW012]

Originally Posted by stormchaser

I have a 23 G30 and have driven the G60 as well. I would concur with your assessment. The G30 to me is a bit stiff riding even on non-run flat tires (Do you agree)? The G60 was less stiff on bumps.

I agree the G60 also did not feel heavier and the steering was quicker to respond. However, I don't like light and responsive steering and thought it was a bit too responsive on the G60 (Easier to drift).

I agree the interior feels less quality and did not like the touch screen versus buttons. That said getting out of a G60 and getting back into a G30 felt like I was going back in time (Older technology). The ride quality alone might make me consider the G60. Also, it is rated at 35 MPG on the highway (4 cylinders) whereas my G30 at 32. Is it that much better on MPG? How did they do that (Drag coefficient or engine tuning?); That's impressive for a much heavier car.

Finally, the basic sport seat in the G60 felt more comfortable (Soft) than my G30 Nappa leather MC seats with the massage that is firm and not uncomfortable. The person above has 2019 MC seats that I think were sensatec. those were likely more comfortable than the required leather package on post-LCI (BMW American Fail). I would miss the grab handles I have on the G30 as well that the G60 got rid of.

I need to spend more time in a G60 before making the switch but did like the car.

the salesperson also mentioned others were saying that the steering wheel felt light. not sure if the 530s are different than the 540 but the 540 didn't feel light to me and im coming from a m550i. pretty sure the additional front weight of the car can make a difference. and the 540s just started arriving.

[PsychDoc]

Originally Posted by BMW012

the salesperson also mentioned others were saying that the steering wheel felt light. not sure if the 530s are different than the 540 but the 540 didn't feel light to me and im coming from a m550i. pretty sure the additional front weight of the car can make a difference. and the 540s just started arriving.

Combined EPA rating of the 540ix is 28mpg (city 26, highway 33). Which, to me, is an amazing number for a car of this size and power.

[535gtxenon]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

A luxury vehicle has things even if rarely used like an umbrella on a Rolls Royce. BMW appears to be in a mission to cut costs by removing features that cost money. Even Ford is getting rid of auto parallel parking to save $60/vehicle because only 5% use it.

One issue with the touchscreen controls is only one thing can be changed each touch. Many times my wife and I want to change our side cabin temp, heated seat level, heated steering wheel and radio channel which all have to be done sequentially. Very annoying in the iX loaner.

If I wanted a Tesla touchscreen experience I would just get a Tesla. BMW is chasing the wrong customer by their cost reduction changes IMHO.

I doubt I will get a G60 after my 2023 540 because as noted the new interior is less user friendly.

I completely agree. People forget the premium price paid for cars like BMW or Mercedes, supposed to bring you feelings that things are well thought of, operated smoothly (not just the engine but overall experience) and almost perfect wherever you look. BMW is supposed to be the most "royal" brand that people coming back buying again and again. Why would I keep buying if I find out there is a huge learning curve and cheap materials for each generation? And in terms of things like voice command can do things buttons do, that just completely misses the point. I pay 70K for a mid size sedan because it gives more choices and freedom on operating the car, not limiting me to just one option because BMW thinks it is "better" (and actually many of such "better" alternatives are not better, just look at they bring back the non run-flat tires, or Apple bring back the HDMI to the macbook instead of limiting to just USB-C). And compare to Telsa is also non sense. If 540i starting 38000 like model 3, I would be fine with all these imperfections, and do everything on one big screen, but the fact is it almost double the price.

Have some long term vision. Especially now, as legacy brands are loosing their edges on the ICE techs because EV make it much easier for new manufactories. I would say more than ever experience is more vital for BMW as their 6-cylinder starts to disappear in their cars.

[stormchaser]

I also drove the G60 having a 23 G30 and posted about it in another post. I agree with this thread on most things. I found the G60 was more comfortable overall than my current model even with luxury seating package. The G60 basic seats were great. What is preventing me from moving to the G60 is the added weight and size. I drive a ton of snow miles and lighter cars stop quicker and can be tossed a bit more in the snow. Also, heavier cars will eat through tires. I have 17's on my G30 for improved comfort and MPG. I love my G30 buttons and knobs also. Overall the G60 seems to be a better luxury car, was quick turning etc. but to loose the traditional BMW shifter, Grab handles on driver side, knobs and a bit of soft touch materials while not a deal killer the size and weight might be? When driving the G60 it did not feel heavy but we all know it is and parking it in a tight spot might be noticeable? Maybe the next generation 3 series will grow and then fit the mold for me. That said the MPG rating on the G60 beats the G30 and pretty impressed BMW can do that in such a big car. My observations on MPG were it might be better in real life with the G60. The shifting points seemed to stay higher in eco pro and the transmission seemed smoother than my G30. I did not drive the electric version, only the 530 4 cylinder.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by DaveDBD

Because on some roads the adaptive cruise slows for parked cars. Also on low traffic highways you come up on semis going slow and your car slows down whereas speed control you unconsciously move over to go around. Regardless, if BMW removes button control it should have voice control.

OMG… THIS^

People who wait until they’re out of town, on sunny days, travelling clear roads on long trips before considering using cruise control ARE NOT CRUISE CONTROL USERS!

CC is something that should be used WAY more often by WAY more people! Constantly varying your speed for no reason is driving everyone behind you CRAZY! As such, anything that makes CC more complicated or harder to use should be outlawed as far as I’m concerned!

Adaptive Cruise gets confused far too easily; parked cars, cyclists, people in other lanes, all of these things are hazards that can confuse it and cause you to slow down, or even panic stop, completely unnecessarily.

Who made the comment about “giving up the safety” of adaptive cruise?!? I somehow doubt you are much of a cruise control user.

My F10 has adaptive cruise and I really wish it didn’t. It can’t be turned off and it is a safety hazard. I’ve been following brand new BMWs that react to the same things so it doesn’t seem to be getting better… and I laugh when I see it because I know exactly what just happened!

Burying critical driving tools in menus and forcing their use with touch screens should not be legal. Yes, I mean every word of that statement.

[tsbrown]

Originally Posted by franxx

Can you say something about the engine sound? From a youtube pov video with the G60 it looks like there is more sound inside the cabin (improved ASD I guess).

Thanks a lot.

I finally test drove a 540iX M Sport last weekend. The ASD is selectable in iDrive and I turned it on/off to confirm there is a difference. With it on, there is more sound than my G30 540i M Sport that doesn’t have ASD. With it off it’s about the same as my G30. I actually prefer it on in the G60 and think it’s better than my G30. For reference, I’m pretty sure the 540i was the only G30 without ASD.

[tsbrown]

Originally Posted by 8GranCouper

It was in the Throttle House review. Personally I have to disagree because Lexus will never have the testosterone to create a 600 HP RWD-based sedan. The fact that all their new vehicles have killed the NA V6 in favor of hybrid 4-cylinders sitting on modified Camry platforms makes the brand dead to me.

Unless you want an RX or NX their brand is dead to most of the market already. My in-laws have 4 of them and I’ve driven them all - LS, GS, RX and NX. Good transportation but completely dull to drive.

[tsbrown]

For those of you who have/had the G30 540i and also drove the G60 540i your comments on acceleration don’t match up with my experience. Yes the car rides smoother than my G30 - passive suspension on both but better in the G60 - but the G60 felt slower/less urgent during acceleration. My car has a Dinan tune to give it roughly the same bhp/torque as the G60 but mine is ~500-600 lbs lighter due to lack of xdrive and the extra weight of the new car. Even in the 2000-3000 rpm range my G30 feels faster and the CA didn’t discourage me from revving out the G60. It just felt slower even with all the settings in sport plus to ensure best response. Overall I liked how the M Sport pkg made it drive but disliked the acceleration.

[MrDit]

Originally Posted by tsbrown

Unless you want an RX or NX their brand is dead to most of the market already. My in-laws have 4 of them and I’ve driven them all - LS, GS, RX and NX. Good transportation but completely dull to drive.

I had a Lexus LC500, that was fun but not totally practical.