[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

GOP senators, Manchin introduce bill blocking EPA’s electric vehicle mandates
The Choice in Automobile Retail Sales Act (CARS), which was introduced Thursday, is a companion to a House bill introduced in July by Rep. Tim Walberg, R-Mich. If passed, the legislation would strike down an ambitious EPA proposal introduced in April that would require as much as 67% of new sedans, crossovers and light trucks to be electric by 2032.

Additionally, the rules would require 50% of new buses and garbage trucks, 35% of new short-haul freight trucks and 25% of new long-haul freight trucks to be electric by 2032.

https://justthenews.com/politics-pol...pa-ev-mandates

When you force unreasonable change in a unreasonable time frame there will be a reckoning.

Remember this?
Democrats call ethanol mandate an environmental 'flop'

A group of Democrats apologized for the failed experiment that is the nation's ethanol mandate on Thursday, calling it a "flop" and introducing legislation that would phase out corn ethanol use in six years.

“We made a mistake,” said Henry Waxman of California, the former Democratic chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, who drove the passage of the Renewable Fuel Standard, or RFS, in a comprehensive energy bill passed in 2007.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/d...ronmental-flop

These goddam politicians better not take my ethanol away

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

These goddam politicians better not take my ethanol away

The only things as abused in Congress as much as tax payer money is Booze so I think you'er good.

As for the watching men thing, you'er on your own on that one.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Rob Ross loves ICE Pick up trucks.



ICE ICE BABY

Watching Bob now mixing it with the brushes.

On tv.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by kyriian

It's not 'adapting' or not, EV's success going beyond its current success is highly if not outright dependent on other factors outside of EV themselves. Many of these limitations (charging speed and infrastructures for example) have already been rehashed to death in the past 200 pages or so there is no need to rehash it again.

Every EV person here that have defended their cars do so from THEIR perspective and use case and that's fine, it works for a lot of people and there is nothing wrong with that. Your use case is perfect example, it works FOR YOU and therefore, you buy it because it works FOR YOU.

Tech will come, we can agree to that at least I can. The question is NOT whether the tech comes or not, that part of it is inevitable.

The question is WHEN and will it come to even justify the 2035 or whatever date that the Western governments in general seem so driven to.

Finally, what's wrong with just let the market drive its own demand, instead of some overbearing gov't telling people what to buy based on a completely ludricous idea that EV is some savior to global warming to manipulate the market.



My money is on the pinecone at this point

I have to disagree about the tech will come. That statement needs to be qualified. What will be the recharge speed, battery range, battery longevity, and cost? As it stands now 300 miles of range requires approximately 90 kWh usable battery capacity. EV motors may get a bit more efficient, but the battery energy density will have to greatly improve. The chemistry will need to be high-rate charging resilient.

And all that is said now is the charging infrastructure needs to be improved and grown for reliability and availability. When the (Toyota) 900-mile /15-minute battery comes to fruition does it still use the current charger architecture, or is a new charger design needed and the public infrastructure requires tens of billions in tech refresh? And who pays? 20 years into EV already, the obvious takeaway is the world's governments foot the bill for infrastructure because the EV market has no business case. Tax payers pay to build the infrastructure then get charged to use it.

I'll repeat, electric cars are not cell phones. The "tech" is not that easy.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Watching Bob now mixing it with the brushes.

That truck needs some happy trees.

[carseatsm5]

Tesla disclosed multiple subpoenas from the U.S. Department of Justice in its third-quarter filing out Monday.

The DOJ has pressed Tesla for information about the range of the company’s electric vehicles, as well as “personal benefits, related parties,” and “personnel decisions,” among other things the filing said.

The Wall Street Journal reported in August that federal prosecutors were investigating whether Tesla used company funds to design and build a “glass house project” for Musk. Last year, Reuters reported that a federal criminal investigation was underway concerning Tesla’s claims that its cars were self-driving.

Reuters has reported, and research by Recurrent and others have revealed, that Tesla’s cars frequently fail to achieve the mileage stated in range estimates and shown on the in-vehicle displays.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by carseatsm5

Tesla disclosed multiple subpoenas from the U.S. Department of Justice in its third-quarter filing out Monday.

This is what happens when you bite the teat that feeds you.

[Efthreeoh]

BTW, my first EV (circa 1973)...

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by kyriian

My money is on the pinecone at this point

Being we have a sink clog in charge, anything is possible.

Go Pinecone!

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

This is what happens when you bite the teat that feeds you.

I wouldn’t celebrate the weaponization of government to persecute political enemies. It’s an erosion of freedom for all of all us.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I wouldn’t celebrate the weaponization of government to persecute political enemies. It’s an erosion of freedom for all of all us.

100%. AND weaponization to force use of electricity as a mobile fuel. It's literally worse than wood or coal. Lol.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

100%. AND weaponization to force use of electricity as a mobile fuel. It's literally worse than wood or coal. Lol.

I think that the EVs are becoming more compelling and that a heavy hand from government is counterproductive.

[gonzo]

Speaking of Tesla...

Billionaire Elon Musk offered Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia, $1 billion under the condition that it would change its name to “Dickipedia.”

* For at least 1 year.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I think that the EVs are becoming more compelling and that a heavy hand from government is counterproductive.

I think the sales and inventory numbers clearly show the bloom is off the EV rose. That said, I agree the heavy hand of government has been a net negative when it comes to the early adoption of EV's. The free market would have had a EV component to the transportation market if left alone and developed products better and greater consumer satisfaction

Remember this government over reach?
Unintended Consequences: CAFE Standards Will Cause More Pollution and Increase Highway Deaths
CAFE standards, mandated by the Energy Policy and Conservation Act of 1975, required about a 50% increase in fuel economy (to 27.5 mpg by model year 1985 from an average of 18 mpg in 1978). The NRC study concluded that the subsequent downsizing and down-weighting of vehicles, “while resulting in significant fuel savings, also resulted in a safety penalty.” Specifically, the NRC estimated that in 1993 there were between 1,300 and 2,600 motor vehicle crash deaths that would not have occurred if cars were as heavy as they were in 1976.
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/unint...ighway-deaths/

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I think that the EVs are becoming more compelling and that a heavy hand from government is counterproductive.

Yet the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act (err. Step 1 of the Green New Deal) reestablished the EV tax incentives until 2032 with no unit sales cap and they now apply to used EV. And the billions for charging infrastructure...

The Government is going to do to gasoline what it did to tobacco. Just wait... THAT'S the picture Chia Pet boy is actually painting.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yet the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act (err. Step 1 of the Green New Deal) reestablished the EV tax incentives until 2032 with no unit sales cap and they now apply to used EV. And the billions for charging infrastructure...

I was unable to prevent that legislation from passing. Sorry man.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I was unable to prevent that legislation from passing. Sorry man.

No worries, it's going to happen one way or another. Lol.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have to disagree about the tech will come. That statement needs to be qualified. What will be the recharge speed, battery range, battery longevity, and cost? As it stands now 300 miles of range requires approximately 90 kWh usable battery capacity. EV motors may get a bit more efficient, but the battery energy density will have to greatly improve. The chemistry will need to be high-rate charging resilient.

And all that is said now is the charging infrastructure needs to be improved and grown for reliability and availability. When the (Toyota) 900-mile /15-minute battery comes to fruition does it still use the current charger architecture, or is a new charger design needed and the public infrastructure requires tens of billions in tech refresh? And who pays? 20 years into EV already, the obvious takeaway is the world's governments foot the bill for infrastructure because the EV market has no business case. Tax payers pay to build the infrastructure then get charged to use it.

I'll repeat, electric cars are not cell phones. The "tech" is not that easy.

Will it be solved is a crystal ball prediction at best at this point. I have my doubts like you it’d ever be solved as batteries are not really a solution anyway but at best a step toward something else.

Frankly, even if Toyota managed to launch their 900 mile battery, it won’t see much application and a much smaller version with around the 300 mile marker will probably be used far more often, for it offers a far smaller package and charge speed that would somewhat bring the gap between the practical ICE to EV. Personally though I still say PHEV or serial hybrid is the way to go for the majority of the population.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BTW, my first EV (circa 1973)...

And you're still waiting for it to reach 100% charge on the batteries.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

And you're still waiting for it to reach 100% charge on the batteries.

Lead-acid. But the charger was just an egg timer. Lol.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Lead-acid. But the charger was just an egg timer. Lol.

I still have my grandfathers one, small heavy silver box with cooling holes all around still working and buzzing.

[M5Rick]

The risk of battery repair costs whether it comes from an accident or the remaining charge left on EV's to actually continue driving have made insurance companies increase premiums hugely and not just double but even quadrupled or more. Just on the news just now one large insurance arm of John Lewis is refusing to even insure any EV.