[HerkHealer]

I've never driven, nor ridden in an EV, but would love to take a ride in this beast.
Skip to 4:20 for the good stuff ( i bet Top Gear did that on purpose )

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Tesla is lowering prices because they have competition to deal with now. What makes any Tesla a "BETTER EV" than the available competition?

Range, performance and the network for its price point.

Other car makers have 2 of the 3, never all 3.

[ggunn9]

Originally Posted by Cos270

What makes you think energy prices will not change on a daily basis moving forward? I’m shocked so many people are naive enough to think this cheap electricity will continue if more people start driving EVs.

As long as people like you continue to hate EV's the majority will stay away and the cost to drive them can maintain. The cost of electricity will never (should never) approach that of the cost of gas. My state is offering $0.09 per kwh That would be $9.00 to charge a 100kwh battery and drive about 300 miles.

I don't understand why people hate EV's so much. I assume it was the same way when gas cars came around.

I am not the guy thinking I will save the planet in my Pruis. I simply want the speed and torque of an EV and if I can save money by not buying gas that is a bonus.

[ggunn9]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Common sense dictates that as more people switch to EV's and in northern climates switch away from fossil fuel home heating the need to produce/deliver increasing amounts of electricity will drive the prices up. Further as more people move to EV's government will lose tax revenue at the pumps. Government loves their taxes, so that loss will have to be made up and I suspect electricity will be their target.

Smart comments here. I agree the Govt will want it taxes. Some states are putting a tax on the EV registration/tag. I get it the are losing the $0.20-$0.40 per gallon tax. They want it from somewhere.

This is where I am happy folks hate on EV's. You stay in the gas car and let me get a few years ahead to save a few dollars and enjoy the EV HP and torque.

[Sedoy]

That's true, but let's not forget that internal combustion engines can only convert around 28% of fuel energy into kinetic energy, while EVs are much more efficient, achieving around 80% efficiency (from the grid including charging losses) in converting chemical battery energy to kinetic energy. Therefore, a more accurate comparison in terms of actual work being done (motion) would be approximately 33.5 cents of gasoline compared to 18.9 cents for EVs.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What if I told you gasoline is around 9.38 cents per kWh and electricity is around 15.1 cents per kWh. National averages for both forms of energy. Maybe you'd find a more efficient way to use gasoline?

[ggunn9]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What if I told you gasoline is around 9.38 cents per kWh and electricity is around 15.1 cents per kWh. National averages for both forms of energy. Maybe you'd find a more efficient way to use gasoline?

My state is offering $0.09 per kwh That would be $9.00 to charge a 100kwh battery and drive about 300 miles.

Also, I changed the spark plugs ($100.00) and cleaned the air filter on my X5 this weekend. Next weekend I am doing the transmission fluid($250.00). I added a fuel system cleaner.($20.00) All things I wont have to do with an EV. I am not saying EV's are the solution, but I am willing to try them. I could be wrong in two years I could be completely against EV's, but I will be able to say I know what I am talking about I had an EV. Or I could be saying I'll never buy an ICE vehicle.

Why are people so against something they have never tried? That could be beneficial to them.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

But since most of the BEV mandate advocates here in this thread state that the best thing about BEV is never having to go to the gas station and you leave home every morning with a full "tank" (i.e. SOC), then why does the charging network matter? It shouldn't.

BUT in reality, range and recharge rate are the only thing that matters to the general automotive buyer. Performance (acceleration) doesn't matter because most of the US coasts are packed full of slow moving traffic. So recharging on a road trip is the issue. Most ICE owners don't want to wait 20 - 45 minutes to get an 80% full tank and plan their trip around chargers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, "it's going to get better". But when, how, and how much is it going to cost?

It’s 25 minutes or so to get to 80% TODAY.

Are you really saying 13 years from now this won’t improve?

It seems that you anti ev people DONT WANT it to improve which is odd.

If this was a vote on whether or not you guys want this to happen then that’s a different story.

Fact is, it’s going to happen so why not patiently wait for this technology to improve? Because it will.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by ggunn9

My state is offering $0.09 per kwh That would be $9.00 to charge a 100kwh battery and drive about 300 miles.

Also, I changed the spark plugs ($100.00) and cleaned the air filter on my X5 this weekend. Next weekend I am doing the transmission fluid($250.00). I added a fuel system cleaner.($20.00) All things I wont have to do with an EV. I am not saying EV's are the solution, but I am willing to try them. I could be wrong in two years I could be completely against EV's, but I will be able to say I know what I am talking about I had an EV. Or I could be saying I'll never buy an ICE vehicle.

Why are people so against something they have never tried? That could be beneficial to them.

For me it is $0.08 and i have an 82kw battery pack.

It's literally 7 bucks to charge my car. A little more than double if i visit a supercharger.

Meanwhile it cost a little over 80 bucks to put 93 in both my other cars.

[Patton250]

Toyota for the win. Well worth watching.

https://youtu.be/DK7MjajHMAY

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Toyota for the win. Well worth watching.

https://youtu.be/DK7MjajHMAY

Toyota is the only one that really gets it right now. The Germans automakers are starting to come around as well. Dumb American automakers will eventually follow as well, but they won't change until California comes back to earth or the other states push them back. I could see CA pushing and pushing for electric, but they'll eventually fold as well.

The automotive future is bright, but it won't be fully electric. It will be a mix of everything. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. It simply won't work. There is still a ton of untapped efficiency left in ICE vehicles.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Toyota is the only that really gets it right now. The Germans automakers are starting to come around as well. Dumb American automakers will eventually follow-up as well. The automotive future is bright, but it won't be fully electric. It will be a mix of everything. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. It simply won't work.

I agree. Well said.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

That's true, but let's not forget that internal combustion engines can only convert around 28% of fuel energy into kinetic energy, while EVs are much more efficient, achieving around 80% efficiency (from the grid including charging losses) in converting chemical battery energy to kinetic energy. Therefore, a more accurate comparison in terms of actual work being done (motion) would be approximately 33.5 cents of gasoline compared to 18.9 cents for EVs.

I agree. Well said.

It will only improve over time. You look at the last 10 years and where EV's are today.

Can you imagine the next 10 years? It's going to be awesome.

Quick battery swap stations. Faster charging times. More technology. Everyone will be driving around in 10 second EV's!

This is going to be great! Jetsons here we come!

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

That's true, but let's not forget that internal combustion engines can only convert around 28% of fuel energy into kinetic energy, while EVs are much more efficient, achieving around 80% efficiency (from the grid including charging losses) in converting chemical battery energy to kinetic energy. Therefore, a more accurate comparison in terms of actual work being done (motion) would be approximately 33.5 cents of gasoline compared to 18.9 cents for EVs.

Correct, but that's an internal combustion engine that needs a wide powerband and connected to a transmission so it can offer a wide variety of speeds. So the engine loses efficiency thru heat loss and transmission losses.

Take the IC engine out of the mechanical effort to generate propulsion and make the engine differently. Design it to lose less heat, tune it for max power at a specific RPM and have it connected to just an on-board electrical generator. Make the engine much lighter out of higher temperature-tolerant materials like ceramic. Add in a small battery for peak energy requirements and excess load capture. Up the efficiency of the chemical combustion process and decrease the parasitic loss of moving electricity over hundreds of miles and several transformer stepdowns/stepups to charge a huge, heavy battery. Have the electicty move thru wires for just a few feet with virtually zero energy loss. THAT system is 80% efficient too, possibly more efficient.

That series hybrid vehicle still uses gasoline, or diesel, or bio-fuel diesel; it doesn't disrupt the petrochemical industry and doesn't disrupt the electrical energy grid, and reduces mining pollution and the conflict minerals trade. It keeps electricity, jet fuel, heating oil, gasoline, and diesel prices in check. Such a vehicle vastly extends the Earth's remaining oil reserves (if you believe they are finite).

THAT is the smart approach and easily accomplished before 2035...

[Sedoy]

There is definitely some truth to that. For example, why there are no diesel-hybrids available? With such a configuration, one could potentially benefit from the best of both worlds: excellent highway mileage from a diesel powertrain and efficient city low-emission driving on electric motors. Thinking about that I accepted the fact that we do not live in a perfect world, rational decisions our leaders should be making are flawed by politics, agendas, corruption, lobby etc. So let's just hope that common sense will prevail at some point...

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Correct, but that's an internal combustion engine that needs a wide powerband and connected to a transmission so it can offer a wide variety of speeds. So the engine loses efficiency thru heat loss and transmission losses.

Take the IC engine out of the mechanical effort to generate propulsion and make the engine differently, to be tuned to lose less heat, and have it connected to just an on-board electrical generator. Make the engine much lighter out of higher temperature materials like ceramic. Add in a small battery for peak energy requirements and excess load capture. Up the efficiency of the chemical combustion and decrease the parasitic loss of moving electricity over hundreds of miles and several transformer step downs/step ups to charge a huge, heavy battery. Say, make the electicty move thru wires for just a few feet with virtually zero energy loss. THAT system is 80% efficient too, maybe more.

That vehicle still uses gasoline, or diesel, or bio-fuel diesel; it doesn't disrupt the petrochemical industry and doesn't disrupt the electrical energy grid, and reduces mining pollution and the conflict minerals trade. It keeps jet fuel, heating oil, gasoline and diesel prices in check. Vastly extends the Earth's remaing oil reserves (if you believe they are finite).

THAT is the smart approach and easily accomplished before 2035...

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

There is definitely some truth to that. For example, why there are no diesel-hybrids available? With such a configuration, one could potentially benefit from the best of both worlds: excellent highway mileage from a diesel powertrain and efficient city low-emission driving on electric motors. Thinking about that I accepted the fact that we do not live in a perfect world, rational decisions our leaders should be making are flawed by politics, agendas, corruption, lobby etc. So let's just hope that common sense will prevail at some point...

When leadership doesn't understand the physical world they live in, common sense eludes them even at the lowest complexity level.

[SoCal_NSX]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Common sense dictates that as more people switch to EV's and in northern climates switch away from fossil fuel home heating the need to produce/deliver increasing amounts of electricity will drive the prices up. Further as more people move to EV's government will lose tax revenue at the pumps. Government loves their taxes, so that loss will have to be made up and I suspect electricity will be their target.

most states charge extra fees for yearly registration for EV's to make up for the lost revenue at the pump.Governments can regulate electricity prices much easier than they can regulate OPEC

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

most states charge extra fees for yearly registration for EV's to make up for the lost revenue at the pump.Governments can regulate electricity prices much easier than they can regulate OPEC

It's different from state to state, and in Canada province to province, but from what I've seen I don't think the licensing fee of an EV offsets the lost gas tax at the pump, and the fact is licensing fees are already paid by owners of ICE and in many places were waved for EV's. To think EV's will remain cheap to charge and own is probably pie in the sky.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

It’s 25 minutes or so to get to 80% TODAY.

Are you really saying 13 years from now this won’t improve?

It seems that you anti ev people DONT WANT it to improve which is odd.

If this was a vote on whether or not you guys want this to happen then that’s a different story.

Fact is, it’s going to happen so why not patiently wait for this technology to improve? Because it will.

I'm not anti EV. Never have been anti EV; I had an electric garden tractor in 1973 (GE ElecTrak Model E-15). Today, I use an electric push mower to cut the small areas of my yard.

I'm anti banning the consumption of gasoline because I think it makes for a better portable fuel than a chemical battery. Gasoline/diesel are not bad fuels, we just need to rethink the ways to use them. BEVs are an antiquated design and technology that are ultimately limited in range and recharge performance that will never match ICE. You keep saying the tech will improve but never say how. BEV hasn't improved much in 10 years to get anywhere near gasoline as a fuel source. 25 minutes to 80% (240 miles) is not even close to gasoline. As I showed, my 17-year old E90 has a 480 mile range and 5 minute recharge rate in Winter, Spring, Summer, and Fall. LOL at BEV.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm not anti EV. Never have been anti EV; I had an electric garden tractor in 1973 (GE ElecTrak Model E-15). Today, I use an electric push mower to cut the small areas of my yard.

I'm anti banning the consumption of gasoline because I think it makes for a better portable fuel than a chemical battery. Gasoline/diesel are not bad fuels, we just need to rethink the ways to use them. BEVs are an antiquated design and technology that are ultimately limited in range and recharge performance that will never match ICE. You keep saying the tech will improve but never say how. BEV hasn't improved much in 10 years to get anywhere near gasoline as a fuel source. 25 minutes to 80% (250 miles) is not even close to gasoline. As I showed my 17-year old E90 has a 480 mile range and 5 minute recharge rate in Winter Spring Summer and Fall. LOL at BEV.

That 25 minute charge is often longer as often charging stations are broken or out of service and as there are more EV's on the road then there will be line ups. You may wait an hour before you can get your 25 min charge. I get pissed when I pull into the gas station and I have to wait for a pump, and usually continue my trip until I get to one that there isn't a line up.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

That 25 minute charge is often longer as often charging stations are broken or out of service and as there are more EV's on the road then there will be line ups. You may wait an hour before you can get your 25 min charge. I get pissed when I pull into the gas station and I have to wait for a pump, and usually continue my trip until I get to one that there isn't a line up.

Aside from the charging station actually working, there are issues with the car itself. There have been a few Youtube videos of EVs that were having software problems. Some required a software update to work with the charging station correctly. Imagine having to sit there doing an over the air update further delaying your trip. Some required a total system reboot to work correctly.

Yet another talking point on what I brought up many posts back that the lack of a standard for charging will cause all these issues.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

most states charge extra fees for yearly registration for EV's to make up for the lost revenue at the pump.Governments can regulate electricity prices much easier than they can regulate OPEC

Guess they forget when summer time comes gas goes up. I wonder how much is 91 in Cali these days. 7 bucks a gallon? Lmao

Jesus cross!!!!!

[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

Everyone will be driving around in 10 second EV's!

That thought is a little scary considering how much some BEVs weigh, like the Rivian or Hummer...