08-10-2023, 02:22 PM | #3543 | ||||
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You then refuted that you have never heard of me or my skills, and that you have talked to others that know about welding/fabrication and they don't tell you about me either. You would then have changed the terms of my claim as I never set terms at all. You took a vague statement, further defined it (moving goal posts), then set about burning it as a straw man. Quote:
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Funny, it was proof, now it's just evidence, another goal post move? you added that the belief must come from the general population = moved the goal post to the "general population" side of the field. Quote:
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08-10-2023, 02:42 PM | #3544 | |||||
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How about you try to answer it for yourself? A welder tells you they have a great reputation. And actually you have heard of him and you have heard not great things. You ask him how he knows he has a great reputation so he shows you some things he welded. How exactly does that tell you anything about his reputation? He may be a great welder who likes to murder his customers or he may steal, maybe he's a Nazi well know around town. The quality of work is only 1 piece of an entity's reputation. Quote:
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Come on, this is just too easy. Also just because I feel like you're on the border here, I should point out that you are dangerously close to attempting to invalidate my argument by pointing out fallacies (if you ever find one), which is in fact a fallacy lol. The only way you win this is by posting proof (sorry, evidence) of BMWs reputation https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fallacy_fallacy Last edited by fcman; 08-10-2023 at 03:11 PM.. |
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08-10-2023, 03:59 PM | #3545 | |
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As I originally stated "maybe in BMW communities they do," I fully do believe that within the BMW ownership/enthusiast groups people have favorable feelings about BMWs ability to make long lasting cars, but I have not seen any evidence that they have an overall good reputation for longevity outside of BMW-centric groups. In my personal, anecdotal experience speaking with people outside of those groups, it has been the complete opposite. Those people still hold opinions despite never owning a BMW, and those opinions help build the overall reputation. I'm willing to have my mind changed. Edited to clean up, I said "still" way too much lol. Last edited by fcman; 08-10-2023 at 04:09 PM.. |
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08-10-2023, 04:30 PM | #3546 | |
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If they had never owned nor shot a pistol, would I care to take note of what they do have to say, and place that input among other data points from trusted and explicitly experienced sources? Sample bias is a slippery slope that slides and slips on both ends of the spectrum, but I'll always weigh firsthand experience overall, and educated 2nd hand observers next. the General population as a whole is populated by a bunch of dumbasses, with an average IQ of only 100. Tesla has a high reputation from the general public, but among those that have owned one it's well known for poor build quality, and actual service data shows a high rate of warranty work and "problems per X" ratio, far higher than industry standard. And yet their reputation among "idiots" remains high. Sample bias or good data analysis? Do actual repairs per X enter this discussion? I studied Tesla for a while when planning a replacement car purchase. General public consensus was that this was a no-brainer purchase. Perusing Tesla forms changed my mind. It has plenty of Elon Musk nut hangers, but there is plenty of people there that tell horrid stories of defects that Tesla will not remedy, and failures that are clearly systemic. Some of the complainers will even admit to planning their nest car purchase to be a Tesla. One thing I did not find among actual owners was a general consensus that they were reliable or well built, even among the idiots and nut-hangers. Consensus was that they were so cool that the problems were a price worth paying. I personally would never trust the opinion of the general public, on anything... Last edited by chad86tsi; 08-10-2023 at 04:38 PM.. |
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08-10-2023, 04:44 PM | #3547 | |||||
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Same thing when someone buys a Toyota, they could have bought a BMW right? Why didn't they? Quote:
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Last edited by fcman; 08-10-2023 at 04:55 PM.. |
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08-10-2023, 04:57 PM | #3548 |
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How did this thread become a meta review of rhetoric?
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08-10-2023, 05:01 PM | #3550 | ||||
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Which is why my analogy doesn't talk about guns in general, but rather a specific one. Would that Sig guy have a more valid opinion on Glock reliability as compared to an actual Glock Owner? Glock owners can have an opinion on reputation, Sig Owners can have an opinion on reputation, and non-gun owners can have an opinion on reputation. Value and quantifiability diminishes greatly as you slide along the scale of experience with a product. Would you do your polling for a future pistol purchase at the grocery store, or a gun range? Toyota buyers often buy a Toyota because they already have one. Crossing brands is a major focus of automotive marketing because it's a big barrier to consumers, they stick with what they know, right or wrong. Quote:
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08-10-2023, 05:07 PM | #3551 | ||||||
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Maybe he owned a glock before? Maybe he knows a ton of people who have owned glocks with problem? Maybe the Glock owner has only ever owned/shopped/shot glocks? Quote:
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08-10-2023, 05:37 PM | #3553 |
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08-10-2023, 05:58 PM | #3554 |
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Last edited by gblansten; 08-10-2023 at 06:20 PM.. |
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08-10-2023, 08:04 PM | #3556 | ||||
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08-10-2023, 08:59 PM | #3557 | |
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Last edited by fcman; 08-10-2023 at 09:29 PM.. |
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08-10-2023, 09:34 PM | #3558 | |
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how about this one : For every e90 over 200k miles there are a hundred that didn’t even make it to 120k though. |
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08-10-2023, 09:41 PM | #3559 | |
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Now, back to the evidence of BMW's reputation for longevity. Where is it? |
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08-11-2023, 02:53 AM | #3560 |
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You're going up a dead end street with this. There is an old saying that a Porsche is only as good as the sum of its parts and that applies to all vehicles, if you run your older car on a wing and a prayer without scheduled servicing you only have yourself to blame if it should break down.
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08-12-2023, 06:26 AM | #3562 |
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08-12-2023, 06:43 AM | #3563 |
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