[minn19]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

You have mentioned this before and I’ve read the FIA press release and all other F1 release since and they have said nothing of the sort. RBR are current being investigated for both procedural and cost breach, nothing more nothing less.

We have all read conjecture in the media but it’s not fact. Plus, when a business has a budget it’s a total. IT chooses where to spend the money, so if they decide to spend some of the money on free food that’s fine but it doesn’t come from fresh air it needs to be paid for.

The regs are clear on what is in or out even how much engine producers are allowed to spend. If you aren’t clear, you ask or in RBR case, put your head in the sand, spend then ask for forgiveness.

Plus the questionable way they are paying Newey. Plus every other team figured out how to feed their staff etc within budget. Nobody looks malnourished on other teams unless they are keeping them off camera. Finally, if they pay more for catering that’s less money for car development in the budget. Watch F1 teams now make everyone brown bag it to work. Last, as you’ve said we still don’t know all the details because RBR and FIA won’t release them.

If you add Newley’s contract in the I understand it, they are massively over budget. Unless they will say he really didn’t design the car?

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Not shot this is true.

If it is...lol.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

This is and will always be the case. It comes down to did your team do it better than the others. The answer is no for the last 8 years which is why some people are more salty than others.

Exactly. Remember Renault's mass damper? Ferrari's strawberry shortcake fuel? I recently watched a youtube video where McLaren once had a third brake pedal hidden away for several races until a savvy photographer caught it in a photo. It's always been a thing and will always be a thing in F1.

[G30M]

ah Adrian Newey has nothing to do with car development, he must be their building painter

https://insideracing.com/formula-1/1...-breach-report

[MontyB1]

He certainly seems to be in the middle of it all.

Also funny reading good old Bernie Ecclestone speaking out, he things the punishment will be worse than then being stripped of the 21 season. I'd take his comments with a pinch of salt but I suspect he is just through fuel on the fire as he normally does.

Still no Red Bull accounts to look over, funny that double breach of UK accounting law and FIA cost cap breach.

I race this weekend it will be interesting to see what the teams and FIA have to say about it as the spotlight is away when there is no race, but its about to get a focus again announcement of an ABA maybe for the weekend or more damage to Red Bulls reputation as a team appearing to full on cheat by overspending. MMMmm we still don't know.

[lens]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

He certainly seems to be in the middle of it all.

Also funny reading good old Bernie Ecclestone speaking out, he things the punishment will be worse than then being stripped of the 21 season. I'd take his comments with a pinch of salt but I suspect he is just through fuel on the fire as he normally does.

Still no Red Bull accounts to look over, funny that double breach of UK accounting law and FIA cost cap breach.

I race this weekend it will be interesting to see what the teams and FIA have to say about it as the spotlight is away when there is no race, but its about to get a focus again announcement of an ABA maybe for the weekend or more damage to Red Bulls reputation as a team appearing to full on cheat by overspending. MMMmm we still don't know.

No accounts because they're still being audited and investigated by the FIA and auditors.


They're going over every cent spent to see where the overage is and what the FIA included when RBR didn't.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by G99M5

ah Adrian Newey has nothing to do with car development, he must be their building painter

https://insideracing.com/formula-1/1...-breach-report

This is a problem greater than RB being over the cap for whatever reason.

If this is true and Newey's compensation is not being counted because he's listed as a "contractor", teams are going to start being a lot more creative.

Good for Red Bull for making Newey and outside contractor and avoiding the cap if this is true. Let the FIA and everyone involved think long and hard about how the cap is calculated. From the 5% breach buffer and only top 3 salaries being calculated, this whole cap is stupid. Set a hard cap with all salaries included, what's the point of only including top 3?

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by chaungo

No accounts because they're still being audited and investigated by the FIA and auditors.


They're going over every cent spent to see where the overage is and what the FIA included when RBR didn't.

They are two different things though, EY their auditors should and need to have signed off accounts by the end of September. For RBR last year this was completed in Feb for the prior year.

This year nothing, unless that is they are still trying to game the system moving things around in the companies to 'meet' the cap when in reality it's pretty clear they haven't.

Still no word from the FIA, RBR but the rest of the grid are in full swing that the punishment of cheating needs to be severe and painful. We shall see what the teeth of the FIA look like.

[Fliplegend]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

We shall see what the teeth of the FIA look like.

We're talking about the same governing body that enabled and made excuses for Masi right? The same ones that made rule changes specifically to benefit high rake cars? The same ones who continue to race in countries with well known human rights violations?

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by Fliplegend

We're talking about the same governing body that enabled and made excuses for Masi right? The same ones that made rule changes specifically to benefit high rake cars? The same ones who continue to race in countries with well known human rights violations?

Yeah this is true, the same ones that take 2hrs to review something if its Ferrari or Merc but 2 minutes if its Red Bull, they AREN'T biased though, ohh no. Erm.....

[MontyB1]

And more evidence that the vultures are swirling!!

Red Bull cost cap overspend constitutes cheating and needs a sporting not monetary punishment Brown tells FIA

[lens]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Yeah this is true, the same ones that take 2hrs to review something if its Ferrari or Merc but 2 minutes if its Red Bull, they AREN'T biased though, ohh no. Erm.....

If they were biased, RBR would've won the last 8 years of WCC and WDC wouldn't they?


It takes two minutes to review things for Ferrari and Mercedes because they complain about the issue a race ago, so when the same thing happens to them, the FIA makes the decision faster because of their complaint.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Budget cap ?

By HAM's dirty trick at Copse , this 2021 wreck costed Red Bull $1.8 Million !

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Budget cap ?

By HAM's dirty trick at Copse , this 2021 wreck costed Red Bull $1.8 Million !

He’s def a dirty driver and it seems now that Rus is in a MB he too feels the need to play bumper cars. Guy went from likable to a self-righteous prick thinking he just deserves to win with a MB.

[3798j]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Budget cap ?

By HAM's dirty trick at Copse , this 2021 wreck costed Red Bull $1.8 Million !

Is this RBR's defense to the FIA for their exceeding the cost cap? I don't think it'll work.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

He’s def a dirty driver and it seems now that Rus is in a MB he too feels the need to play bumper cars. Guy went from likable to an self-righteouse prick thinking he just deserves to win with a MB.

Sure .I mean ,$1.8 Million was a big chunk out of the Red Bull budget cap ...
A Honda PU replacement was required and MAX and got a grid penalty !

On the other hand : HAM just got a 10 sec. penalty and his car was repaired under the Red Flag and won the race .

And $1.8 Million was vaporized for Red Bull !

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Sure .I mean ,$1.8 Million was a big chunk out of the Red Bull budget cap ...
A Honda PU replacement was required and MAX and got a grid penalty !

On the other hand : HAM just got a 10 sec. penalty and his car was repaired under the Red Flag and won the race .

And $1.8 Million was vaporized for Red Bull !

Oh boo hoo.

Russel took out Bottas for a similar payout/total. So both teams had to deal with major accident costs. Yet MB and everyone else still figured it out………….

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by 3798j

Is this RBR's defense to the FIA for their exceeding the cost cap? I don't think it'll work.

It Isn't Red Bull defence . Just facts what was going on in the '21 season .
This thread is about the budget cap and the thread discussion is where the money was spent on ..

This one was for a Red Bull wreck replacement and that costed $1.8 Million for Red Bull .

A team's car was wrecked by the driver from another team , very likely intentional by a dirty trick ..

That $1.8 Million wasn't spent on RB18 upgrades , but to give MAX another car ...

MAX's car was 100% wrecked . So , Don't you think that MAX needed a complete new car to race with in the next race ?
That's why IMHO .The FIA should take that $1.8 Million into account as well ..

[E86Z4MC]

If red bull have circumvented paying for Adrian Newey's salary by calling him a contractor that doesn't work on car development, this truly is egregious. Either they drop the hammer on red bull, or risk all teams using a similar workaround.

Regardless of any minor overspend that was arguably done just by "meals", Adrian's salary is another $10 million right off the top given how critical he is to red bull. Plenty of co-employment discrepancies that will easily poke holes through any attempt to justify this.

Even what Zach Brown has mentioned in terms of corrective action I would say is nowhere near harsh enough if what is rumored about Newey is true.

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

It Isn't Red Bull defence . Just facts what was going on in the '21 season .
This thread is about the budget cap and the thread discussion is where the money was spent on ..

This one was for a Red Bull wreck replacement and that costed $1.8 Million for Red Bull .

A team's car was wrecked by the driver from another team , very likely intentional by a dirty trick ..

That $1.8 Million wasn't spent on RB18 upgrades , but to give MAX another car ...

MAX's car was 100% wrecked . So , Don't you think that MAX needed a complete new car to race with in the next race ?
That's why IMHO .The FIA should take that $1.8 Million into account as well ..

You cheer on Max's aggressive "never yield" driving style, but when it results in him crashing his car you cry foul. Max wasn't concerned about the $$ for car repairs when he turned in on HAM's Mercedes. The FIA does not need to take that $1.8 Million into account, Max and & Ham were racing hard... Max didn't want to yield... neither did Ham or the barrier.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M2CS

You cheer on Max's aggressive "never yield" driving style, but when it results in him crashing his car you cry foul. Max wasn't concerned about the $$ for car repairs when he turned in on HAM's Mercedes. The FIA does not need to take that $1.8 Million into account, Max and & Ham were racing hard... Max didn't want to yield... neither did Ham or the barrier.

Negative !

MAX had the lead in the Copse turn . HAM had plenty of room on the inside .

Who got the 10 sec. FIA penalty ?
The 10 sec . penalty was for the one who was at fault . And that was HAM !

10 sec. for HAM and Mercedes was $1.8 Million for Red Bull and a grid penalty for MAX !
Give me a break...

[M Hybrid V8]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Negative !

MAX had the lead in the Copse turn . HAM had plenty of room on the inside .

Who got the 10 sec. penalty from the FIA ?
The 10 sec . penalty was for the one who was at fault . And that was HAM !

10 sec. for HAM and Mercedes was $1.8 Million for Red Bull and a grid penalty for MAX !
Give me a break...

Ham got a slap on the wrist because he wasn't completely at fault. Moving on, the $1.8 million Redbull needed to spend to repair the car didn't give them freedom to breach the cost cap.