[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

When you see all Hamilton's successes and playboy lifestyle its easy to forget that his is a real life rags to riches, against all odds story.
No rich family or formula one father to pave his way to an F1 seat with $$$ and influence.
He grew up in a council house with his mother and siblings after his father split with his mother at age 2.
Fortuitously his father bought him a used Kart at the age of 6 and worked up to 4 jobs at a time to support his race career.

You don't have to like him.....but no real fan of formula 1 can deny that he is the very best of his generation...the masterclass display at Istanbul with such an unlikely win demonstrating perfectly his peerless ability to win even when his car isn't the best for the conditions.

This. All of this.

On yesterday, as many have already state: He wins races that he isn't supposed to win. And as you so perfectly put in in your last statement, "...the masterclass display at Istanbul with such an unlikely win demonstrating perfectly his peerless ability to win even when his car isn't the best for the conditions."

I've watched the race 3Xs. His performance was sublime.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

I appreciate the kindness and appreciate the fact that you can be reasonable. Except when you compare VERs skill level to HAMs.

When I look at F1, I see one of the ultimate meritocracies. I support HAM because he has come up as the only POC in the room which is something I can relate to. I have been in the same situation for most of my career. When I was in telecommunications I was one of 3 POCs in a company of over 2000 people and that was just 25 years ago. I made it all the way to VP with 1200 or so people working in my part of the company after starting in entry level sales in just 7 years.

I can personally relate to his rise to his position of preeminence in Formula One and all of the crap he went through having to be so much better than everyone else to be seen as equal. I did on the corporate side, as well.

The converse of this is VER whom I see as a spoiled kid. And while he worked hard and has talent, his behavior is atrocious. I have a daughter his age and if my child behaved as he does, there would be a stern talking-to about straightening out her behavior, forthwith.

Cheers-mk

I'm sure VER had to go through similar hassle coming up through the ranks as HAM,you must have read but I understand VER's frustration in the way he expresses himself and it's the norm now that ppl let loose with 'pardon my french' and when push comes to shove then it's justified in some cases especially in highly charged situations such as F1. You heard the lingo of some of other drivers I'm sure so..MEN will be men.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

I'm sure VER had to go through similar hassle coming up through the ranks as HAM,you must have read but I understand VER's frustration in the way he expresses himself and it's the norm now that ppl let loose with 'pardon my french' and when push comes to shove then it's justified in some cases especially in highly charged situations such as F1. You heard the lingo of some of other drivers I'm sure so..MEN will be men.

Ummmm, no. He is the son of a previous F1 driver. You can't be that biased to see that there is a complete difference.

The only thing I will give VER a pass on is the fact that Jos is reputed to have been extremely abusive in his treatment having made Max walk home when he didn't win or strand him at places if they had a disagreement. All in all, a s4itshow.

But to say that he had the same problems as a person who is blazing a new trail in the sport is tone-deaf, my friend. If you have any doubt, read about Tiger Woods and the things he went through. Perfectly congruent.

Cheers-mk

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Ummmm, no. He is the son of a previous F1 driver. You can't be that biased to see that there is a complete difference.

The only thing I will give VER a pass on is the fact that Jos is reputed to have been extremely abusive in his treatment having made Max walk home when he didn't win or strand him at places if they had a disagreement. All in all, a s4itshow.

But to say that he had the same problems as a person who is blazing a new trail in the sport is tone-deaf, my friend. If you have any doubt, read about Tiger Woods and the things he went through. Perfectly congruent.

Cheers-mk

Look,apart from the biased looks HAM has said that he was getting from others when in the lesser formulas he didn't really have any disruptive opponents that would nerf him off the track out of spite..just blank looks and maybe ignored by others.
VER had his hands full with that problem, one in particular which you can't ignore was in the form of Leclerc and it was not six of one and half dozen of other Leclerc started it full on in the karts, blatant ramming off the track by Lec and saying it was 'nothing'.
You surely must have read up on that and he isn't one to take it lying down, one may even argue that VER has had it physically tougher than HAM on his way up.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Ummmm, no. He is the son of a previous F1 driver. You can't be that biased to see that there is a complete difference.

The only thing I will give VER a pass on is the fact that Jos is reputed to have been extremely abusive in his treatment having made Max walk home when he didn't win or strand him at places if they had a disagreement. All in all, a s4itshow.

But to say that he had the same problems as a person who is blazing a new trail in the sport is tone-deaf, my friend. If you have any doubt, read about Tiger Woods and the things he went through. Perfectly congruent.

Cheers-mk

This one is correct . MAX walked home and... More than once my friend !
Punished by dad Jos . Jos is no angel....But they spent 24/7 together at the tracks .
MAX got the base of outstanding racecraft from dad Jos . And of course also everything about the kart's engines in detail .
The financial support came from mom "Sophie Kumpen" her side of the family is richer .
But in the beginning MAX's b@lls were not big enough , that's why he walked home a lot ...

Finally MAX showed his b@lls on time vs LeCrash and Ocon !
And we saw that !

"2009" Who won the race over here in Genk ?

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Look,apart from the biased looks HAM has said that he was getting from others when in the lesser formulas he didn't really have any disruptive opponents that would nerf him off the track out of spite..just blank looks and maybe ignored by others.
VER had his hands full with that problem, one in particular which you can't ignore was in the form of Leclerc and it was not six of one and half dozen of other Leclerc started it full on in the karts, blatant ramming off the track by Lec and saying it was 'nothing'.
You surely must have read up on that and he isn't one to take it lying down, one may even argue that VER has had it physically tougher than HAM on his way up.

You are partially correct. Have you read any of his stories about growing up? Not speculative...the actual information?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

You are partially correct. Have you read any of his stories about growing up? Not speculative...the actual information?

Only from what is given in the media, another bit of non important info is that he was born 35 miles from me at the time

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

You are partially correct. Have you read any of his stories about growing up? Not speculative...the actual information?

My friend I met them . I live only 17 km from the Verstappen's parents home (house) and hometown in Hasselt (Belgium) where MAX is born .
I drive everyday over there , because I work there in the Japanese company ..
The well known kart circuit in Genk is 20 min. from my home here ..

I know pretty much everything about their past and present . There were some situations ,but nothing extraordinary happened .
Let us say , every household has his up and downs , divorces of parents in dispute , ect..
Know more ,no big deal . But these are private situations .

One thing you won't believe ! MAX is actually very , very shy !
Honestly I still really wonder from where he gets the courage to speak in front of the cams ...
His big mouth is only rage. As a kid he said always : P2 is the first loser !

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

You are partially correct. Have you read any of his stories about growing up? Not speculative...the actual information?

Well said MK,
Thank you for calling out the realities of what people of color experience in their lives.

Perhaps a self-assessment for those that respond to racial bias as something that is just not real in their lives....

https://www.tolerance.org/profession...or-hidden-bias

[racerbruce]

Just watched a great TV interview with HAM on the network's CBS This Morning, a US weekday news show. CBS Host Gayle King interviewed HAM.

For those interested, look it up online.

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

You are partially correct. Have you read any of his stories about growing up? Not speculative...the actual information?

HAM interview:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...years-old.html

[///M Power-Belgium]

ĭn nōmine Pătris ĕt Fīliī ĕt Spīritūs Sānctī

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5theonlyone

Anything else on the menu I wonder ..the same old cod is boring.

Menu ?
Soon in front of my dinner : Potato croquettes , Roast beef and mushrooms .
Dessert is Crème brûlée .

[MKSixer]

From people in the know...

Frank Williams: “ If you said to me that all the drivers today are free and they're all desperate to get into Williams, I would say: 'Send in Lewis.'”
—————————————
Paddy Lowe: "He's tremendously good at controlling a car in oversteer. We saw that from the first moment he got in our car. We saw the data, and on every entry we could see there was a massive correction on the steering, and our normal drivers would have been bitching like hell that the car was undriveable, yet he didn't even pass comment. So with a driver like that, you're better equipped to push the boundaries to new levels. Speaking generically of that characteristic, a lot of the performance limit of a car is set by stability; if you can't hang on to it, you will have to introduce understeer in that zone. But if you have a driver better able to deal with oversteer in those zones that induce it, then you will have a less-understeery car elsewhere and therefore more total grip over the lap. The great drivers over the years - Senna, Schumacher, Mansell - have all had that ability. Like for like compared to other drivers, they want more front end."
—————————————-
James Allison: “The level of drive that Lewis has, and indeed all these multiple champions have, is quite staggering. You can think you’re a competitive person, you can think you’re a driven person, and then you bump into someone who really is and you realise that actually you’re oh a sort of middle of the road lackadaisical drifter by comparison.”
—————————————
Heikki Kovalainen: “He’s very good at driving when the car doesn’t have the maximum aero load and the car is moving around a bit more and you’re kind of sitting on the [edge of the] mechanical grip, and on the tyre grip, if you like. “He’s very good at that – he’s got some special sensors in his a*** that he can just tiptoe on that edge just a bit beyond everyone else, I think.”
—————————————
Pedro de la Rosa: Reflecting now on the events, de la Rosa said that his views on Hamilton changed totally on the second run that the now six-time champion did.
"That's when my mind changed," said de la Rosa, speaking to F1's Beyond the Grid podcast.
"We had two cars, we were testing there, [and] it was his first ever Formula 1 experience. He did a run, and he was nowhere, you know.
"I remember looking at his data with Philip Prew, my race engineer back then. We were looking and Philip told me: 'The boy will need to improve a lot over the years...it's a long road for Lewis, but he will be good, but we just have to give him time, blah, blah'.
"And I thought 'yeah, yeah, yeah'. I did a run, came back, looked at the times and I saw Lewis was fastest.
"You know, on the second run! And I looked at the data and I said: 'What happened?' [They said:] 'Well we gave him new tires'.
"So I looked in the data, and he was so fast through Copse, Becketts, Maggots... that then I just realised the potential of Lewis Hamilton. Just looking at the data for a couple of seconds I realised we had a massive problem."
"It was his first ever F1 test, his second run in Silverstone, and I realized this guy is very, very fast.
"I've seen a lot of drivers in my life. You know, I've been with very good drivers, I would say, and I feel very honoured of that. But when I saw Lewis, I thought "wow, this is very special". And then, when the season was over, I knew that Lewis would be in the race car and I knew that Fernando was signed.
"And I was happy with that, because I said to myself, if I was in, Ron [Dennis]'s feet, or Martin Whitmarsh's feet, I would take the same decision, because Lewis is incredibly fast and Fernando as we all know, is mega."

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

From people in the know...

Frank Williams: “ If you said to me that all the drivers today are free and they're all desperate to get into Williams, I would say: 'Send in Lewis.'”
—————————————
Paddy Lowe: "He's tremendously good at controlling a car in oversteer. We saw that from the first moment he got in our car. We saw the data, and on every entry we could see there was a massive correction on the steering, and our normal drivers would have been bitching like hell that the car was undriveable, yet he didn't even pass comment. So with a driver like that, you're better equipped to push the boundaries to new levels. Speaking generically of that characteristic, a lot of the performance limit of a car is set by stability; if you can't hang on to it, you will have to introduce understeer in that zone. But if you have a driver better able to deal with oversteer in those zones that induce it, then you will have a less-understeery car elsewhere and therefore more total grip over the lap. The great drivers over the years - Senna, Schumacher, Mansell - have all had that ability. Like for like compared to other drivers, they want more front end."
—————————————-
James Allison: “The level of drive that Lewis has, and indeed all these multiple champions have, is quite staggering. You can think you’re a competitive person, you can think you’re a driven person, and then you bump into someone who really is and you realise that actually you’re oh a sort of middle of the road lackadaisical drifter by comparison.”
—————————————
Heikki Kovalainen: “He’s very good at driving when the car doesn’t have the maximum aero load and the car is moving around a bit more and you’re kind of sitting on the [edge of the] mechanical grip, and on the tyre grip, if you like. “He’s very good at that – he’s got some special sensors in his a*** that he can just tiptoe on that edge just a bit beyond everyone else, I think.”
—————————————
Pedro de la Rosa: Reflecting now on the events, de la Rosa said that his views on Hamilton changed totally on the second run that the now six-time champion did.
"That's when my mind changed," said de la Rosa, speaking to F1's Beyond the Grid podcast.
"We had two cars, we were testing there, [and] it was his first ever Formula 1 experience. He did a run, and he was nowhere, you know.
"I remember looking at his data with Philip Prew, my race engineer back then. We were looking and Philip told me: 'The boy will need to improve a lot over the years...it's a long road for Lewis, but he will be good, but we just have to give him time, blah, blah'.
"And I thought 'yeah, yeah, yeah'. I did a run, came back, looked at the times and I saw Lewis was fastest.
"You know, on the second run! And I looked at the data and I said: 'What happened?' [They said:] 'Well we gave him new tires'.
"So I looked in the data, and he was so fast through Copse, Becketts, Maggots... that then I just realised the potential of Lewis Hamilton. Just looking at the data for a couple of seconds I realised we had a massive problem."
"It was his first ever F1 test, his second run in Silverstone, and I realized this guy is very, very fast.
"I've seen a lot of drivers in my life. You know, I've been with very good drivers, I would say, and I feel very honoured of that. But when I saw Lewis, I thought "wow, this is very special". And then, when the season was over, I knew that Lewis would be in the race car and I knew that Fernando was signed.
"And I was happy with that, because I said to myself, if I was in, Ron [Dennis]'s feet, or Martin Whitmarsh's feet, I would take the same decision, because Lewis is incredibly fast and Fernando as we all know, is mega."

Thank you MK,
Wowie - such detailed analysis coming from engineers, drivers, etc of HAM's skills.

While the rest of the F1 grid lament as to why MB and HAM have literally re-written world records, MB and HAM keep their heads down and focus and commit to be better....every moment....every day.

[yco]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

From people in the know...

Frank Williams: “ If you said to me that all the drivers today are free and they're all desperate to get into Williams, I would say: 'Send in Lewis.'”
—————————————
Paddy Lowe: "He's tremendously good at controlling a car in oversteer. We saw that from the first moment he got in our car. We saw the data, and on every entry we could see there was a massive correction on the steering, and our normal drivers would have been bitching like hell that the car was undriveable, yet he didn't even pass comment. So with a driver like that, you're better equipped to push the boundaries to new levels. Speaking generically of that characteristic, a lot of the performance limit of a car is set by stability; if you can't hang on to it, you will have to introduce understeer in that zone. But if you have a driver better able to deal with oversteer in those zones that induce it, then you will have a less-understeery car elsewhere and therefore more total grip over the lap. The great drivers over the years - Senna, Schumacher, Mansell - have all had that ability. Like for like compared to other drivers, they want more front end."
—————————————-
James Allison: “The level of drive that Lewis has, and indeed all these multiple champions have, is quite staggering. You can think you’re a competitive person, you can think you’re a driven person, and then you bump into someone who really is and you realise that actually you’re oh a sort of middle of the road lackadaisical drifter by comparison.”
—————————————
Heikki Kovalainen: “He’s very good at driving when the car doesn’t have the maximum aero load and the car is moving around a bit more and you’re kind of sitting on the [edge of the] mechanical grip, and on the tyre grip, if you like. “He’s very good at that – he’s got some special sensors in his a*** that he can just tiptoe on that edge just a bit beyond everyone else, I think.”
—————————————
Pedro de la Rosa: Reflecting now on the events, de la Rosa said that his views on Hamilton changed totally on the second run that the now six-time champion did.
"That's when my mind changed," said de la Rosa, speaking to F1's Beyond the Grid podcast.
"We had two cars, we were testing there, [and] it was his first ever Formula 1 experience. He did a run, and he was nowhere, you know.
"I remember looking at his data with Philip Prew, my race engineer back then. We were looking and Philip told me: 'The boy will need to improve a lot over the years...it's a long road for Lewis, but he will be good, but we just have to give him time, blah, blah'.
"And I thought 'yeah, yeah, yeah'. I did a run, came back, looked at the times and I saw Lewis was fastest.
"You know, on the second run! And I looked at the data and I said: 'What happened?' [They said:] 'Well we gave him new tires'.
"So I looked in the data, and he was so fast through Copse, Becketts, Maggots... that then I just realised the potential of Lewis Hamilton. Just looking at the data for a couple of seconds I realised we had a massive problem."
"It was his first ever F1 test, his second run in Silverstone, and I realized this guy is very, very fast.
"I've seen a lot of drivers in my life. You know, I've been with very good drivers, I would say, and I feel very honoured of that. But when I saw Lewis, I thought "wow, this is very special". And then, when the season was over, I knew that Lewis would be in the race car and I knew that Fernando was signed.
"And I was happy with that, because I said to myself, if I was in, Ron [Dennis]'s feet, or Martin Whitmarsh's feet, I would take the same decision, because Lewis is incredibly fast and Fernando as we all know, is mega."

epic post!!!

and i d like to add this one from Martin Whitmarsh..

“I look back now and think, ‘I could have been the person who tore Lewis Hamilton’s contract up and never got him back.’ I was so lucky, really.”

from EdM5's BBC post..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/extra/c1...Hamilton-story

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by yco

epic post!!!

and i d like to add this one from Martin Whitmarsh..

“I look back now and think, ‘I could have been the person who tore Lewis Hamilton’s contract up and never got him back.’ I was so lucky, really.”

from EdM5's BBC post..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/extra/c1...Hamilton-story

I read this and sent it out to about 30 or so people, as well. Could you imagine being the guy who let Lewis Hamilton go? UGH...ultimate blot on your career!!!

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by racerbruce

Thank you MK,
Wowie - such detailed analysis coming from engineers, drivers, etc of HAM's skills.

While the rest of the F1 grid lament as to why MB and HAM have literally re-written world records, MB and HAM keep their heads down and focus and commit to be better....every moment....every day.

Thanks Bruce and you are spot on...they are a machine that doesn't care what anyone thinks or does. Lots of organizations and people can learn from this!!

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Thanks Bruce and you are spot on...they are a machine that doesn't care what anyone thinks or does. Lots of organizations and people can learn from this!!

Well said MK,
Your previous comment regarding MB's acumen in all aspects of F1 (design/testing/manufacturing/operations/staffing/forward-looking strategic planning, etc) is incredible.

You mentioned that MB is an organization to be emulated....I would presume MB performs corporate oversight and training sessions which create "other income" for the mother-ship.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Could you imagine being the guy who let Lewis Hamilton go?

A bit like when Williams and Head refused to reward Newey for his part in Hills DWC winning car with a small share in the company.
Where would Williams F1 team be now if they had.

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

A bit like when Williams and Head refused to reward Newey for his part in Hills DWC winning car with a small share in the company.
Where would Williams F1 team be now if they had.

Well said and a great bit of F1 history.

[clutchdj]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

From people in the know...

Very enlightening to read and now visualize how F1 engineers think.
Thanks for sharing.