[Performancedieselpros]

Originally Posted by The HACK

LOL. I'm like those old guys that dreamed about the "good old days" where you come home, your wife, who doesn't have a job, and spent all day making herself look pretty, has a cold beverage ready for you and dinner served. Then after dinner you sip cognac while she does the dishes and put the kids to bed, and then give you a nice "good night" service so you can sleep good for all day of goofing off with "the boys" at work tomorrow.

Good old days, indeed. Back when cars were pure and familial roles are simple. No wonder "muscle cars" you can buy for $8,000 new back then are worth $250,000 now.

Look. I'm just jonesing for the days when the letter "///M" on the back of the car actually used to mean SOMETHING. Instead, now on my SECOND mid-life crisis I'm looking at something with a stupid flat fish that killed Steve Irwin on the side of the fender to fill my car-lationship needs.

The closest "BMW" that I will likely buy in the next 5 years wear a Toyota badge.

Ok, so you go on your tirade about a "drivers car" and then speak about the commuter equivalent to a tinker toy sports car and how it tickles your kitty?

C7s Z06s are trash and the ZL1 is ehhhh fair.... when modified.

You'd likely look awesome in a Toyota Matrix though.

Back to the Red-headed step child remark on the x5m/x6m....

Frankly red heads tend to be a little more exciting if I do say so myself.

I mean based on your logic this shouldn't have happened.... regardless of mods.

How bout this! Try to quit fitting in with your standardized buildsheet requirements to compliment your rather dull palet.

There's nothing more exciting than having a vehicle that is completely obnoxious and over the top and completely impractical for daily commuting needs! That's the thrill of all of this at the end of the day in that when someone asks "why did you buy that car" you simply say because I can.

[Performancedieselpros]

[Spa2k]

Originally Posted by Maynard

OMG 8 pages of this. I need to get a life. And a few stick-on M insignias, just to hack off the elites. Hadn't realized just how potent an ass-rasher those could be.

Make sure you add a red R from a Civic on the back too - it's worth 5 horsepower, so you'll be faster than those morons in unmodded M2s! (Oh, wait - that's me...)

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by chumley

As far as exclusivity goes, I think the single biggest destruction of that came with leasing. Renters replacing owners makes the company's bottom line swell but completely eliminates both the exclusivity and the aspiration value of these cars.

I'm not anti lease, but if we are talking about exclusivity, the relative ease of obtaining one pretty much negates any exclusivity.

Leasing a car is renting a car?
Not at all.

Unless you paid cash for your automobile, then you don't own it anymore than one who leases.
Try missing a few loan payments and let's see how much your really "own" a loan purchased automobile.

Also, I have no idea why you're conflating "exclusivity" of vehicle ownership with leasing. It's quite silly actually.

[chumley]

Originally Posted by RPM90

Leasing a car is renting a car?
Not at all.

Unless you paid cash for your automobile, then you don't own it anymore than one who leases.
Try missing a few loan payments and let's see how much your really "own" a loan purchased automobile.

Also, I have no idea why you're conflating "exclusivity" of vehicle ownership with leasing. It's quite silly actually.

Actually, I'm one of the few that actually addressed the original post. If you indulge me for a moment and accept a quick lookup of a definition of the OP's notion of exclusivity = "the state of catering for or being affordable by only a few, select customers" then my point is 100% on target. I'm not a hypocrite (or maybe I am) since we are leasing my wife's car. My point was not to bash BMW's or to suggest people who lease are lesser humans. My point was to address the exclusivity factor all but disappearing with leasing. I can do the math as well as anyone else and am familiar with the pros/cons of leasing vs buying but you can spin it any way you want and there is no getting around the fact that leasing allows people who would never be able to afford to buy a car to drive one. You couldn't convince me if you had till the end of all days that BMW would sell half of the M3's they do if there was no leasing.

Marginally relevant example? Our receptionist and one of firm's secretaries both drive 3's. I know what they make and they'd be homeless if they had to finance those cars. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with that but if you think that makes the cars "Exclusive" (again the topic at hand) YOU are quite silly.

[drgmt]

Many people lease cars for the tax benefits.

[yco]

well from BMW side, im calling it M-tax.. whatever part you change is more (at least %30-50) expensive than a same non-M model.. i guess it was 1-2 years before BMW launched BMW-M.com other than that actually i havent seen much exclusivity from BMW for owning an M in these years including my previous E46 M3.. i guess it was more special for events in USA but in Europe.. aside all this i want to drive M cars for making myself happy but soon if they keep pulling up the prices of M cars BMW ll lose a lot car guy to AMG cause AMG line is better than BMW's at the moment already.. from chassis to engine.. less or more..

[kyrix1st]

I think what OP means is "M doesn't feel this special to drive anymore."

[jaye944]

why ?

do you also drink your earl grey with your pinky sticking out

Originally Posted by Elaz

Bmw has messed up the M brand. These things are everywhere now. It use to be more exclusive. They need to bring it back there again.

[aas5]

Originally Posted by chumley

Actually, I'm one of the few that actually addressed the original post. If you indulge me for a moment and accept a quick lookup of a definition of the OP's notion of exclusivity = "the state of catering for or being affordable by only a few, select customers" then my point is 100% on target. I'm not a hypocrite (or maybe I am) since we are leasing my wife's car. My point was not to bash BMW's or to suggest people who lease are lesser humans. My point was to address the exclusivity factor all but disappearing with leasing. I can do the math as well as anyone else and am familiar with the pros/cons of leasing vs buying but you can spin it any way you want and there is no getting around the fact that leasing allows people who would never be able to afford to buy a car to drive one. You couldn't convince me if you had till the end of all days that BMW would sell half of the M3's they do if there was no leasing.

Marginally relevant example? Our receptionist and one of firm's secretaries both drive 3's. I know what they make and they'd be homeless if they had to finance those cars. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with that but if you think that makes the cars "Exclusive" (again the topic at hand) YOU are quite silly.

This argument is quite silly. Leasing is an attractive financial instrument, that promotes flexibility as much or more as affordability. Nothing wrong with that. How about reminding us all that 30 years ago you couldn't get a credit card as a student unless your parents gave you one. Good old days, right? I'd rather BMW sells more cars that are less exclusive but as a company be in a good financial health to continue to offer a wide range of models every person can choose from as opposed to 95% of people dreaming about driving one but not being able to afford one until they are in the 50s+. You want exclusivity go buy a Russian Lada 2106 that hasn't changed since it originally came out in the 80s - that's exclusive.

[greasypeanut]

Originally Posted by aas5

This argument is quite silly. Leasing is an attractive financial instrument, that promotes flexibility as much or more as affordability. Nothing wrong with that. How about reminding us all that 30 years ago you couldn't get a credit card as a student unless your parents gave you one. Good old days, right? I'd rather BMW sells more cars that are less exclusive but as a company be in a good financial health to continue to offer a wide range of models every person can choose from as opposed to 95% of people dreaming about driving one but not being able to afford one until they are in the 50s+. You want exclusivity go buy a Russian Lada 2106 that hasn't changed since it originally came out in the 80s - that's exclusive.

Leasing is a great tool indeed if used correctly.

But mindset of some people who lease are not for the flexibility or tax benefits, but just the affordability part. They have to get that BMW as a way to keep up with the Jones' and that in turn can hurt the exclusivity. From my experience living in So Cal, a bunch of people live this way

As a M owner, I don't care, please sell more in whatever way possible so that more Ms are made.

[HighlandPete]

Isn't exclusivity governed by something being out of reach financially, or limited supply, or both?

Surely we don't want BMW limiting the supply of M-Cars, or pricing users out of the market.

[V-Eight]

I can say that yes, maybe owning an M car is not rare as was ten years ago, but I can ensure you that, in my case, I'm one of the thirteen owner of an M140i in Italy at the moment, and believe me, is only a 1 series.....but people look at it always in a different way. In my opinion an M performance and an M car will be always something special worth to own, despite a mass diffusion.

[Obioban]

I could care less how "exclusive" it is. BMW just doesn't make anything I want to drive anymore.

I got into M cars for the high revving NA engines with amazing throttle response, rwd with an LSD, nice manual trans, good steering feel, in a reasonably practical body that's reasonably easy to maintain, with a simple cabin layout with high quality materials.

Whole lot of nope to all of the above these days. Can't imagine wanting/buying anything they've made in the turbo era, and am happy to be free of my bangle era car.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by chumley

Actually, I'm one of the few that actually addressed the original post. If you indulge me for a moment and accept a quick lookup of a definition of the OP's notion of exclusivity = "the state of catering for or being affordable by only a few, select customers" then my point is 100% on target. I'm not a hypocrite (or maybe I am) since we are leasing my wife's car. My point was not to bash BMW's or to suggest people who lease are lesser humans. My point was to address the exclusivity factor all but disappearing with leasing. I can do the math as well as anyone else and am familiar with the pros/cons of leasing vs buying but you can spin it any way you want and there is no getting around the fact that leasing allows people who would never be able to afford to buy a car to drive one. You couldn't convince me if you had till the end of all days that BMW would sell half of the M3's they do if there was no leasing.

Marginally relevant example? Our receptionist and one of firm's secretaries both drive 3's. I know what they make and they'd be homeless if they had to finance those cars. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with that but if you think that makes the cars "Exclusive" (again the topic at hand) YOU are quite silly.

There is nothing exclusive about an M3/4 to begin with so leasing doesn't contribute or diminish something that does not exist. For your information not all leasers can't afford the car, that is a ridiculous statement. Maybe certain snobby M owners are getting what they deserve when they think exclusivity is eroding and it's somehow hurting their ego. Really, get over it. It's a car.

[joeinsd]

This is why I got myself a 335.


Jk, deep down inside I'm envious of all the M's I see and still want one.

[PoorLurker]

When car rates are nearing double digits and the economy is not booming, we will get to see how many people are getting M3s.

Money is cheap, leases are cheap, people have jobs, and people are comfortable stretching in this economy - this is going to make car people get cars that can't "truly" afford.

BRB - going to rennlist classifieds.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by jaye944

why ?

do you also drink your earl grey with your pinky sticking out

I prefer English Breakfast.

[greasypeanut]

Originally Posted by jmg

There is nothing exclusive about an M3/4 to begin with so leasing doesn't contribute or diminish something that does not exist. For your information not all leasers can't afford the car, that is a ridiculous statement. Maybe certain snobby M owners are getting what they deserve when they think exclusivity is eroding and it's somehow hurting their ego. Really, get over it. It's a car.

I see that you live in OC and me living in Irvine, I agree that there's nothing exclusive about an M. But I can appreciate that to most people outside of our county or even So Cal and more importantly outside this forum and to non M owners, there's a lot more exclusivity in their eyes to the M badge. Remember that these are for the most part the Halo cars in the BMW line up, which already to some people BMW itself as a brand is Halo-ish. #firstworldproblems

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Railgun

However, within itself, the numbers suggest it's MORE exclusive now than it has been. The numbers suggest BMW jumped the shark at the turn of the century. The numbers have since DECLINED, not increased.

Does your F10 number include the F08/F12/F13 M6? I ask because you list "E6x" for the prior generation, implying the M6 is included.

As of sometime in the first half of last year, BMW had sold roughly 68,000 F8x M3/M4. With two more years of M4 production left, it is pretty likely this will be the best selling M3/M4 ever.

At the end of the day, who gives a shit.

Some do, some don't. I'm not particularly passionate about the thread topic itself - just wanted to provide thoughts on your conclusion from the data you posted.

[Performancedieselpros]

Can someone point me to the direction of the intersection of....

How is this thread still alive, and who the fuck cares about exclusivity in a car basically made to only last through the terms of initial lease?

Having trouble finding it on the internet GPS!

[mkoesel]

Thanks for that. But will a singular model (M4 vs both M3 and M4) cover another 17,000 sales?

It's both the M4 coupe and convertible (Some would call that two models, some might call it two body styles of one model. No interest in debating usage of the word, just offering some detail.). In prior generations, the coupe sold the most by far, while the convertible came in second place, and the sedan has been last when it has been offered (not surprising given its shorter run). Given the fact that we know M4 allocations greatly outnumber M3 allocations, it is all but a foregone conclusion that the trend will continue. I personally suspect F8x M3/M4 sales will eventually top 100k units.

Time will tell, but I'd still argue it's par for the course and nothing has changed in terms of exclusivity over the last 20 years.

Despite remaining ardently indifferent to the discussion, one could cite the very existence of all the models that you left out of your data provides a compelling counterpoint. When you add in the M6, X5M, X6M, 1M/M2, soon X3/X4 M, its hard to deny that the sales have increased and that the brand is more mainstream and accessible to more customers.