[rpinola]

Originally Posted by Mr.SugarSkulls

Dinosaurs...I'm 26? :

I'm 16!! I love my E9x 335xi 6mt!!

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by The Big O

Great news for us 1M'ers. Value will shoot up with no MT's on future M's.

Doubt that highly.

Scott just said M5 and up!

[Fundguy1]

It's a business, but I sucks that BMW is cowing down to the masses of sheep who want automatics and hybrids. Those are camry buyers, not M car buyers. There will always be a strong market for MT and petrol engines. Foe the life of me I can't understand why they still want soft top convertible 6 series because they're traditional and are even planning to go soft on next 4 series but don't want MT and are pushing all this hybrid and electric crap. It isn't selling well and I bought an e93 instead of a 650 specially because of the hardtop. They're getting bass ackwards at BMW.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Ilia@IND

You can pry my manual shifter out of my cold dead hands.

Sounds like a good bumper sticker


"Manual Transmissions

The #1 choice of cold dead drivers"

?

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

It's a business, but I sucks that BMW is cowing down to the masses of sheep who want automatics and hybrids. Those are camry buyers, not M car buyers. There will always be a strong market for MT and petrol engines. Foe the life of me I can't understand why they still want soft top convertible 6 series because they're traditional and are even planning to go soft on next 4 series but don't want MT and are pushing all this hybrid and electric crap. It isn't selling well and I bought an e93 instead of a 650 specially because of the hardtop. They're getting bass ackwards at BMW.

One of the "Sheep" in my track club bought a hybrid with a DCT

To make matters worse his GT3 and the cars he races in the Ferrari Challenge and the Lamborghini Trofeo series don't have MTs either.

Obviously not an enthusiast.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

If MTs are faster around tracks why do race cars have paddle shifters?

Because all else being equal, paddle shifters are faster. My point is that I don't know of any automaker that makes a street-legal car where both the manual and DCT options have the same number of gears, same ratios in each gear, and same final drive ratio -- and even if they did, there's still a weight difference, I suppose. As a result, the differences in testing between the same car in MT vs DCT form will never be attributable entirely to the inherent differences between the two technologies, but rather other decisions the automaker made on how to implement each technology in that specific car. That's now an MT Porsche apparently beat the PDK equivalent, and it's how a DCT car could end up with a much larger advantage over a 6MT than its technology alone would allow.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Because all else being equal, paddle shifters are faster. My point is that I don't know of any automaker that makes a street-legal car where both the manual and DCT options have the same number of gears, same ratios in each gear, and same final drive ratio -- and even if they did, there's still a weight difference, I suppose. As a result, the differences in testing between the same car in MT vs DCT form will never be attributable entirely to the inherent differences between the two technologies, but rather other decisions they made on how to implement that technology in that specific application. That's now an MT Porsche apparently beat the PDK equivalent.

Also race cars are set up differently to optimize them for particular tracks.

[KingOfJericho]

I wonder what BMW sells more of: manual M cars or convertible M cars?

My feeling is that they probably sell many more manuals than convertibles, yet the manuals, which I'm POSITIVE are cheaper to make, are going to be the first to go...

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I wonder what BMW sells more of: manual M cars or convertible M cars?

My feeling is that they probably sell many more manuals than convertibles, yet the manuals, which I'm POSITIVE are cheaper to make, are going to be the first to go...

Great point that I hadn't even considered. My guess is that even if manuals currently represent a higher percentage of M cars than convertibles, the convertibles may not be losing market share like the manuals are, so BMW would be willing to keep a steadily low-volume option but not one that has seen steady decline with no expectation of recovery, regardless of how well either option aligns with the M philosophy.

Besides, what do you expect BMW to do, stop being able to sell any M cars in Los Angeles and Miami??

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I wonder what BMW sells more of: manual M cars or convertible M cars?

My feeling is that they probably sell many more manuals than convertibles, yet the manuals, which I'm POSITIVE are cheaper to make, are going to be the first to go...

Guess I'm going to skew the numbers when I go to buy an M4 vert next year

[F83]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

I wonder what BMW sells more of: manual M cars or convertible M cars?

My feeling is that they probably sell many more manuals than convertibles, yet the manuals, which I'm POSITIVE are cheaper to make, are going to be the first to go...

Well the difference is that verts aren't "obsolete" and never will be. Plus BMW gets paid for the verts in a big way with a much higher sticker price. Remember I drive a 6MT (and a vert for that matter) so I'm not personally slogging the MTs. Just pointing out how the engineers at BMW likely view it.

[KingOfJericho]

I would be interested to see those numbers. A manual transmission is a pretty simple device when compared to the engineering and tooling costs (and warranty repair costs) of a convertible top.

[Fundguy1]

Smaller market share yes. But passionate buyers. I have a feeling many like me just won't buy a BMW without an MT. I owned an auto G35. Loved everything about it except it was auto, which every single time I got into the car pissed me off. Hated it for that reason and vowed never under any circumstances again. Drove an M3 vert, 2009, with DCT. Hated it every second even though it was my car but better in every other way. I don't own a Mercedes because no stick. Period. I hate hybrids and electrics and generally don't get along with their owners either. They're generally to obsessed with buying organic food and hugging trees. Guess I'll be shopping Ford and Chevy soon. Sad.

[Bahn360Photo]

to be precise the most you can get is 575 hp on competition m5/6, 600 hp was on 30 Jahre edition m5 and you can't get it anymore.

[dsad1]

Originally Posted by Bahn360Photo

to be precise the most you can get is 575 hp on competition m5/6, 600 hp was on 30 Jahre edition m5 and you can't get it anymore.

The new m6 competition package gets it to 600hp.

[bmw1racer]

I'll probably never get the opportunity to buy a M car, so the lack of a manual means nothing to me... As long as they make manuals available for the 1er/2er.

[bandwagn]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Guess I'm going to skew the numbers when I go to buy an M4 vert next year

M4 vert w/ a MT

Sure the autobox is faster, the manual is more engaging to drive

[lowbudgethero]

Originally Posted by bmw1racer

I'll probably never get the opportunity to buy a M car, so the lack of a manual means nothing to me... As long as they make manuals available for the 1er/2er.

but then you know they will eventually make them fwd

[F83]

Originally Posted by lowbudgethero

but then you know they will eventually make them fwd

Ok, ok this has gone far enough. M car with front wheel drive? Bring on the apocalypse. Our time here is done.

[lowbudgethero]

lol i was referring the the 1 series rumors of fwd and the 2 series active tourer

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

Something about you seems strangely familiar....

we DON'T know each other.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

It's a business, but I sucks that BMW is cowing down to the masses of sheep who want automatics and hybrids. Those are camry buyers, not M car buyers. There will always be a strong market for MT and petrol engines. Foe the life of me I can't understand why they still want soft top convertible 6 series because they're traditional and are even planning to go soft on next 4 series but don't want MT and are pushing all this hybrid and electric crap. It isn't selling well and I bought an e93 instead of a 650 specially because of the hardtop. They're getting bass ackwards at BMW.

Folding Hardtops are on their way out, because of weight, complexity, and lack of room in the trunk. Want a folding hardtop? Then go buy a Volvo.

The 6er Vert is Sexy because it has what any real Convertible would have, a Cloth Top!