[jmg]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

Feelings over facts...is that why BMW is giving away electric cars? There is no demand. People don't want to wait 45 minutes at a charging station. The infrastructure is still not there.

This is why I think the Plugin Hybrid is the current best compromise. It won't be like this forever though. Progress will change the status quo.
Eventually, it will be the full blown EV.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by forcefed

That's what ///MPhatic seems to want then

///MPhatic wants an ICE. There is no point in convincing someone who has already made up their mind.

[hova00]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

OK here let me make it more relevant to you. You have no clue as to what you’re comparing ones a sedan and so the other, but nothing is similar when it comes to the design itself so yeah, either go get your eyes checked or quit posting stupid shit.

Wow, thanks for the masterclass in car design, Professor. I had no idea I needed a PhD to post an opinion. I’ll get my eyes checked ASAP! Hopefully, they’ll prescribe glasses strong enough to see things your way!

[hova00]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

That’s actually not true but the problem is those EV’s are overpriced to begin with now back to reality

So, EVs don’t depreciate like crazy, but they’re overpriced, which somehow doesn’t cause the crazy depreciation? Got it. Sounds like the cars aren’t the problem…maybe reality needs a tune-up instead!

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by forcefed

Name an ev under 3400lbs.

Current EVs with their large batteries are going to be heavy. But BMW's own i3 was under 3400lbs.

[/ / / M3]

Originally Posted by jmg

This is why I think the Plugin Hybrid is the current best compromise. It won't be like this forever though. Progress will change the status quo.
Eventually, it will be the full blown EV.

Compromise being the key word. They are heavy, complex, expensive to make and offer no performance advantage.

Latest generation turbocharged ICE engines can generate ridiculous horsepower and torque without any help from batteries. Adding batteries and electric motors only makes them heavier and slower (i.e. new M5). Can you imagine how fast the new M5 would have been if it was ICE only and still made 700+ hp (which can be easily accomplished with the S63 engine)? It would have given the 911 Turbo a run for its money.

[G MONEY]

Originally Posted by jmg

This is why I think the Plugin Hybrid is the current best compromise. It won't be like this forever though. Progress will change the status quo.
Eventually, it will be the full blown EV.

If your 35 or older, you will be taking a dirt nap before we ever see full EV. So everyone in that range can just enjoy any form of vehicle they want.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

I'd walk first. lol

There's a reason why most trains have electric motors, many cruise ships have pod motors, ski lifts have electric motors, etc. It would obviously be archaic to use gas motors to power vacuum cleaners, blenders, hair dryers, etc. Electric motors are much more compact, don't require multi-gear transmissions, exhaust systems, air cleaners, etc. There will be a day when the gas engine is missed just as much as horse drawn carriages. Right now, the ONLY road block is battery technology. And that is ever improving. And even at the current state of battery technology, the EVs surpass gas cars in so many metrics.

[jmack123]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

Feelings over facts...is that why BMW is giving away electric cars? There is no demand. People don't want to wait 45 minutes at a charging station. The infrastructure is still not there.

BMW is “giving them away” with discounts and incentives because they are first-gen EVs which were Franenstein’d on top of dedicated ICE platforms. Thats a fact.

The other fact? The Lucid Gravity, 3 row SUV will come out later this year with 450 miles of range. Will charge 70% in 30 mins. That totals a realistic highway range of 700 miles on a 30 minute stop. Thats a fact. Similar tech will be available in next-gen BMWs. Thats a fact.

Oh by the way, Tesla is opening their network to BMW next year and many others are either rapidly developing (e.g. Applegreen) or rapidly emerging (e.g. Ionna). So, infrastructure problem solved next year. Thats a fact.

The writings on the wall - apparently however some of us aren’t good at projecting forward.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

Feelings over facts...is that why BMW is giving away electric cars? There is no demand. People don't want to wait 45 minutes at a charging station. The infrastructure is still not there.

And yet, the EV segment has enjoyed the biggest YTD sales increases. Unless you drive over 200 miles/day...73,000 miles/yr, most of your driving will be without using public charging. Just taking 10 seconds to plug it in your garage, and forego the extra time and inconvenience of going to a gas station. I drove 4000 miles the other month and had no issues charging at public stations on my trips to Utah and Az.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Heavy drunk ape. That's how I see the size.

If it's not less than 3,400 lbs it's not even on my radar.

It will never be on your radar because a current M2/3/4 is about 3900lbs.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

It’s also $80,000 nicely equipped

Because it is not a built from the ground up electric vehicle that’s their problem

That is not the problem.

And at $80k it's fully loaded.

My i4 M50 was $80k with every option including individual leather and 20" wheels.

Most folks do not buy the i4 I ordered.
Whe the M50 was the most popular M branded car last year, it was not a maxed M50.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

Cool - let me know when you buy one. This reminds me of when people claim they want the wagon but no one ever buys it. It's a good novelty item that has little demand.

Nice try.

1. I’ve owned two EV’s already. And strongly considered a Taycan over an M3. But again, that doesn’t fit my use case. I owned those two EV’s for a total of 4 years and over 90k miles. The reason I sold is because I could no longer stand Elon or his shitshow company, he was driving the value through the floor with erratic price changes and I really no longer needed two cars.

2. Use case. I have two kids, one is about to start college. The other starts in 3 years. My days of two cars are on hold for at least 4 years. I don’t want an EV M3 as my only fun car

3. Already owned a wagon for 6 years. Decently modded V70R. Loved it. Strongly considered an RS6 over the M3 but decided it wasn’t worth the $$. Especially with the dated interior. Still looks…oh so good though.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

That is not the problem.

And at $80k it's fully loaded.

My i4 M50 was $80k with every option including individual leather and 20" wheels.

Most folks do not buy the i4 I ordered.
Whe the M50 was the most popular M branded car last year, it was not a maxed M50.

It’s 25k more than my 24 Model 3P

And my car beats it in almost every way

That’s a hard-sell IMO that car is overpriced

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by jmg

This is why I think the Plugin Hybrid is the current best compromise. It won't be like this forever though. Progress will change the status quo.
Eventually, it will be the full blown EV.

(Performance) plug-in hybrids are great for a second car

I currently prefer one full performance electric as well as one 100% petrol ⛽️ performance car

[jmg]

Originally Posted by / / / M3

Compromise being the key word. They are heavy, complex, expensive to make and offer no performance advantage.

Latest generation turbocharged ICE engines can generate ridiculous horsepower and torque without any help from batteries. Adding batteries and electric motors only makes them heavier and slower (i.e. new M5). Can you imagine how fast the new M5 would have been if it was ICE only and still made 700+ hp (which can be easily accomplished with the S63 engine)? It would have given the 911 Turbo a run for its money.

…which is why a pure EV will ultimately be the predominant form of propulsion in the automobile in the future. Ditching the ICE will save weight.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by jmack123

BMW is “giving them away” with discounts and incentives because they are first-gen EVs which were Franenstein’d on top of dedicated ICE platforms. Thats a fact.

The other fact? The Lucid Gravity, 3 row SUV will come out later this year with 450 miles of range. Will charge 70% in 30 mins. That totals a realistic highway range of 700 miles on a 30 minute stop. Thats a fact. Similar tech will be available in next-gen BMWs. Thats a fact.

Oh by the way, Tesla is opening their network to BMW next year and many others are either rapidly developing (e.g. Applegreen) or rapidly emerging (e.g. Ionna). So, infrastructure problem solved next year. Thats a fact.

The writings on the wall - apparently however some of us aren’t good at projecting forward.

I wish people that didn't know would stop saying the CLAR is a bastard platform for EV when it isn't.

CLAR or Cluster Architecture was designed to support ICE, Hybrid and EV.

Lucid developed their battery and motor tech to be as powerful and efficient as possible. They provided tech for Formula E.

But I'm reality it's less than 5% of people that need more than 300 miles of range.

There isn't really an infrastructure problem right now with most people charging at home, but it makes people comfortable to be able to charge anywhere. Costco is now in a partnership with Electrify America. I personally will never use anything Tesla because I dislike Elon the Moron

There will be EV, Hybrid and ICE for the foreseeable future. ICE makes sense for hard to reach places because you can truck the fuel in or even make fuel from Bio mass.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

It’s 25k more than my 24 Model 3P

And my car beats it in almost every way

That’s a hard-sell IMO that car is overpriced

Its not $25k more if you don't add option that a TM3P can't have.

Better build for the Tesla? No
Better service? No
Better paint? No
Better ride? No
Better tech? No; no HUD, no hands free, no real 360 camera, no real tactile interface.
Better paint? No
Better interior? No
Better performance? No look at real world tests
Color and interior options on BMW for the win!

But a Tesla is better than an i4? Okay

It's hard to sell the i4 M50 to a person that doesn't appreciate quality and aervice.
Don't confuse deals on the i4 eDrive35 and the discounts on the M50.

The i4 M50 was BMWs best selling M labeled car in 2022 and 2023.

[johnbucur]

BMW M has always embraced new technologies to bring performance to the next level.

VANOS —> turbocharging —> the list goes on, and now 4 electric motors with instant torque and torque vectoring.

I think the product will be finished well. This will be more “pure M” regarding driving dynamics than any of the SUV and m-lite offerings.

Came from Model 3 and now have G22, and although I made the switch I can’t ignore the fact that Model 3 was fundamentally better in some areas.

I look forward to seeing what M will make.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

I wish people that didn't know would stop saying the CLAR is a bastard platform for EV when it isn't.

CLAR or Cluster Architecture was designed to support ICE, Hybrid and EV.

Lucid developed their battery and motor tech to be as powerful and efficient as possible. They provided tech for Formula E.

But I'm reality it's less than 5% of people that need more than 300 miles of range.

There isn't really an infrastructure problem right now with most people charging at home, but it makes people comfortable to be able to charge anywhere. Costco is now in a partnership with Electrify America. I personally will never use anything Tesla because I dislike Elon the Moron

There will be EV, Hybrid and ICE for the foreseeable future. ICE makes sense for hard to reach places because you can truck the fuel in or even make fuel from Bio mass.

Ok, it’s not a bastard platform in that it wasn’t some kind of Frankenstein experiment to add EV powertrain. But it’s a huge compromise. Any full BEV on a platform that can be full ice is a huge compromise. There are just too many packaging efficiencies inherent in the freedom of the EV powertrain (and one huge issue, the battery) to try to call it anything but.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Its not $25k more if you don't add option that a TM3P can't have.

Better build for the Tesla? No
Better service? No
Better paint? No
Better ride? No
Better tech? No; no HUD, no hands free, no real 360 camera, no real tactile interface.
Better paint? No
Better interior? No
Better performance? No look at real world tests
Color and interior options on BMW for the win!

But a Tesla is better than an i4? Okay

It's hard to sell the i4 M50 to a person that doesn't appreciate quality and aervice.
Don't confuse deals on the i4 eDrive35 and the discounts on the M50.

The i4 M50 was BMWs best selling M labeled car in 2022 and 2023.

What I’m saying is my model three performance comes fully loaded for 55 grand with 20 inch wheels with a 300 mile plus range

And a better UI with an exception of no android auto or no Apple CarPlay

It has 20 inch staggered wheels and adaptive suspension

It’s a much better value proposition

0-60 is absolutely amazing

Top speed 163

[NickyC]

I'm seeing hope here. I haven't owned an electric car before but I'm certainly not against it. As long as this car doesn't look anything like the current generation, I'll be in line to pick one up. The good thing is BMW won't have the BS excuse to stick that horrific front end on this one due to "cooling", and the design team responsible for that abomination is gone.

Hope springs eternal, this doesn't look bad at all from first glance.