[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by F87source

Was it for these new regs?

AMR just updated their mirror mounts too, and if we want to talk about legality boxes the redbull beam wing is very close to breaking that limit because the legality boxes were there to ensure the beam wing was not a biplane and to be large enough help push the dirty air up. But redbull manage to form a bi plane wing which creates a low pressure zone that helps suck air out of the engine cover, which technically defeats the rules. So if you want to nit pick that is an area of contention too.

It very well may be legal but I hardly call protesting something that drastic and functional nit picking

[F87source]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

It very well may be legal but I hardly call protesting something that drastic and functional nit picking

To me the protests are a sign of if I can't do it neither can you mentality, and it makes f1 suck because all the cool stuff gets banned. If it were up to me all the grey area inventions would be legal. So flexi everything within the defined load tests, squatting suspension, DAS, blown diffusers, etc literally as long as it fits in the legality boxes and passes the tests you're good.

[F87source]

Merc confirms they build the w13 with the FIA informed every step of the way:

https://www.gpblog.com/en/amp/105908...oping-w13.html


So unlikely anything on the w13 will be banned. Even with the others trying to pull a super majority reg change they won't be able to get the 8 teams to vote in favor, because Merc, amr, Williams, and McLaren likely will note vote for a ban of the zero pod because these Merc powered teams can follow what Merc does. So imo the w13 is here to stay.

[E92inNC]

Originally Posted by F87source

Merc confirms they build the w13 with the FIA informed every step of the way:

https://www.gpblog.com/en/amp/105908...oping-w13.html


So unlikely anything on the w13 will be banned. Even with the others trying to pull a super majority reg change they won't be able to get the 8 teams to vote in favor, because Merc, amr, Williams, and McLaren likely will note vote for a ban of the zero pod because these Merc powered teams can follow what Merc does. So imo the w13 is here to stay.

Unless it’s clearly outside the regs I hope they get to keep their design, too often the other teams complain about another’s innovation. I can’t remember if it was explicitly illegal but they DAS from a few years ago was brilliant

[F87source]

Originally Posted by E92inPHX

Unless it’s clearly outside the regs I hope they get to keep their design, too often the other teams complain about another’s innovation. I can’t remember if it was explicitly illegal but they DAS from a few years ago was brilliant

DAS was grey area, built into the steering movement so it was perfectly legal. However it would cost way too much to develop and since 2021 was the start of the budget cap the FIA decided that it would be best to not allow teams to pursue an all out spending/development war to copy merc so they banned it. But I suspect DAS will be back when tire warmers are banned. I also suspect the mass damper or hydraulic suspension to come back if porpoising isn't solved.

[F87source]

Williams rear brakes caught fire and it caused latifi to spin off. Session is red flagged, but there doesn't appear to be much if any damage.

edit- damage might be worse than initially expected.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

It very well may be legal but I hardly call protesting something that drastic and functional nit picking

I don't like the shake up in the race directors dept that control the stewards also, it's a bad start immediately with the Mercs' suspicious mirror stalk and the example of Ferrari being harangued by them for their innocent mirror mount update then.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I don't like the shake up in the race directors dept that control the stewards also, it's a bad start immediately with the Mercs' suspicious mirror stalk and the example of Ferrari being harangued by them for their innocent mirror mount update then.

No one even complained to Ferrari about their mirror mounts this season, that might have been previous regs.

Next the race director and the stewards have no influence over the team that controls car legality.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

No one even complained to Ferrari about their mirror mounts this season, that might have been previous regs.

Next the race director and the stewards have no influence over the team that controls car legality.

I did say at 'that' time and scrutineers must have some affiliation with the RD.

[M5Rick]

Nothing much happening after a Williams' brakes caught fire (no 6 ) and BOT's Alfa broke down. Currently Max 3rd and HAM doddering about in 19th.Ocon tops the sheets in a Renault.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I did say at 'that' time and scrutineers must have some affiliation with the RD.

Nothing that influences the final decision on legality within the governing body, the most that could even be linked between those two parties is that they work for the FIA.

The only people trying to spin up a story is those people already premptively trying to discredit mercedes even before the season has started and pecking order is determined.

[M5Rick]

Haas have been given extra time to run their car because of their late arrival but have come to a halt with Mick S after 23 odd laps b/c of exhaust ill fitment. Mags to drive in the afternoon.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

Nothing that influences the final decision on legality within the governing body, the most that could even be linked between those two parties is that they work for the FIA.

The only people trying to spin up a story is those people already premptively trying to discredit mercedes even before the season has started and pecking order is determined.

A lot of teams are probably considering protests against the 13, from every angle it looks like they are bending the rules.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

A lot of teams are probably considering protests against the 13, from every angle it looks like they are bending the rules.

They can if they want I don't care, if merc vetted it with the FIA as they have said they have done, then those protests will be moot. I also don't see 8 teams being able to band together to change the regulations, because there are 4 merc powered teams including merc themselves, and each one of these teams can adopt a super slim packaging style due to the engine architecture being optimized for this style of packaging.


To me if it is within the legality box and nothing in the rules prohibit it, then those teams can cry themselves to sleep. Be better at thinking outside of the box and engineering instead of trying to protest everything.


The only major thing that would actually be of concern is not the side pods, it is the "weaponizing" of the mirror mounts, and in the past the FIA didn't want this area of the car to be used as aero devices. So despite it being in the legality box if these areas are exploited too hard there might be a regulation change. But that wouldn't just affect merc, every team on the grid is messing with this area now.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by F87source

They can if they want I don't care, if merc vetted it with the FIA as they have said they have done, then those protests will be moot. I also don't see 8 teams being able to band together to change the regulations, because there are 4 merc powered teams including merc themselves, and each one of these teams can adopt a super slim packaging style due to the engine architecture being optimized for this style of packaging.


To me if it is within the legality box and nothing in the rules prohibit it, then those teams can cry themselves to sleep. Be better at thinking outside of the box and engineering instead of trying to protest everything.


The only major thing that would actually be of concern is not the side pods, it is the "weaponizing" of the mirror mounts, and in the past the FIA didn't want this area of the car to be used as aero devices. So despite it being in the legality box if these areas are exploited too hard there might be a regulation change. But that wouldn't just affect merc, every team on the grid is messing with this area now.

Just because some teams run Merc PU's they are shackled by Wolff? I see. So they are not allowed to challenge to better their own teams.

[irunalot]

Here is a good overview of the aero that gets more into the details, including legality. This by an ex-Fl aerodynamicist so he gets into all the details of legality with the exact regulations not just performance.

[irunalot]

F1TV just commented that RB has a host of new bits being installed with more coming tomorrow with very visible changes.

The Merc is also changing some bodywork. Hmmm whats coming

I love a good development war!

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by F87source

... If it were up to me all the grey area inventions would be legal. So flexi everything within the defined load tests, squatting suspension, DAS, blown diffusers, etc literally as long as it fits in the legality boxes and passes the tests you're good.

I agree...However, none of the MB crowd felt that way about RB's flexi wing last year. It was legal till they changed the test mid-season. Changing testes mid-season should never happen.

I said protest it as a Ferrari fan...If Ferrari came up with it I'd say hell no, it's legal. That's the nature of a fan. Fan is short for fanatic

[Killed by Death]

[Killed by Death]

[Fliplegend]

Love how so many in the paddock are freaking out and some well known whiners are whining. Merc knows how to come out strong after major rule changes. Besides them in 2014, who else did their homework for new regs, oh, Brawn!

[irunalot]

Originally Posted by Fliplegend

Love how so many in the paddock are freaking out and some well known whiners are whining. Merc knows how to come out strong after major rule changes. Besides them in 2014, who else did their homework for new regs, oh, Brawn!

Could not agree more, there is too much whining because someone else's interpretation of the rules and out engineering other teams. instead of taking the time to whine go do your homework. I hate whiners in all forms of life. Just get on with it, whining won’t fix anything, just make you look like a sore loser.

Keep in mind there is a difference between a questioning statement of another team’s design(s) and the actual act of running to the principal’s office crying foul. Let the rule setters enforce the rules. All these cars need to go through a tech inspection and the FIA has all of the CAD designs. The amount of time and energy wasted in developing a case to take to FIA could be spent improving their own car. that is unless they do not have the talent to meet or exceed the targets set by the other team.