[ntg44]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

I don't understand the stereotyping based on nomenclature.

If they called the car a GR 300 instead of a Corolla, you'd be cool with it being a limited production model. But the fact that it's badged as a Corolla there should be a ton available for whoever wants them bc Corollas are cheap, readily available cars?

Furthermore, it's somehow ok for Porsche or Ferrari to artificially inflate and deflate production numbers or create a demand and have $50 to $100k markups ? Lol.

F that.

I've been on the other side of this esp with Porsche, where you need to give a handjob to everyone at a dealership to maybe get a chance to be on the waitlist to the waitlist to the allocation list.

It's a unique car, call it whatever you want, and like every unique car, it'll be a little bit of a hassle to get one. But I agree that if it becomes a huge PITA to purchase, buyers will have to balance how much crap they'll put up with until they just walk away. Personally, I spent 20 minutes calling some dealers, and got on a list for a car at MSRP. Wasn't a big deal at all.

Actually, I'm not okay with Porsche or Ferrari doing it either. Which is why among other reasons I've never considered either. But for Toyota to all of a sudden start implementing this artificial production cap on a Corolla of all models, yeah, it makes me a bit sour as a pretty regular Toyota customer for 20+ years. Doesn't matter if it's a Corolla, "GR 300", Supra, or Land Cruiser. It's bull shit, and nobody wins but the dealerships with idiotic markups.

I'm not as passionate about this as my post might have read. But reading that just changed my interest from being fairly interested into looking elsewhere. I do not mean this as a flex whatsoever, but between my R8 and STI, both of which I did not need to search far and wide for and both of which I paid less than MSRP for, I'm pretty much covered in what experiences I'm after. I just don't like this trend which is typically implemented on high end/exotic cars trickling down to mass produced cars for average middle class enthusiasts who are looking to experience possibly the last generation of the great internal combustion engine cars before everything turns into a toaster on wheels. Get them while you can before they're gone has now become get one if you can, and be prepared to pay up or search far and wide for the privilege. For a damn Corolla.

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by ntg44

Actually, I'm not okay with Porsche or Ferrari doing it either. Which is why among other reasons I've never considered either. But for Toyota to all of a sudden start implementing this artificial production cap on a Corolla of all models, yeah, it makes me a bit sour as a pretty regular Toyota customer for 20+ years. Doesn't matter if it's a Corolla, "GR 300", Supra, or Land Cruiser. It's bull shit, and nobody wins but the dealerships with idiotic markups.

I'm not as passionate about this as my post might have read. But reading that just changed my interest from being fairly interested into looking elsewhere. I do not mean this as a flex whatsoever, but between my R8 and STI, both of which I did not need to search far and wide for and both of which I paid less than MSRP for, I'm pretty much covered in what experiences I'm after. I just don't like this trend which is typically implemented on high end/exotic cars trickling down to mass produced cars for average middle class enthusiasts who are looking to experience possibly the last generation of the great internal combustion engine cars before everything turns into a toaster on wheels. Get them while you can before they're gone has now become get one if you can, and be prepared to pay up or search far and wide for the privilege. For a damn Corolla.

I agree with most of what you're saying, so I think we are on the same page here. It is annoying that almost any car you're looking at in any price bracket requires you to fellate multiple salesman for the privilege of giving them your money. You've taken what was stereotyped as a shady job, and added such a massive consumer demand, that many dealers are trying to price gouge every customer on every car. I do understand this to a certain extent since this is a market economy, but it is perpetuating many of the negative stereotypes that have been synonymous with the "sleezy" car salesman job. Case in point, I was talking to a salesman about a Z3m that was getting PPI'd before sale. Guy rarely replied to my messages, blew me off repeatedly, didn't give me the information I requested, and ghosted me after a few days. It felt like I was messaging someone on Tinder.

Back to the Corolla, I do think that this is a special car, much more special than a RS3 or STI (no offense) and once the hype dies down a bit, it should be available at MSRP. Yes this will never be a car you can walk down to the local Toyota dealership and pick up on a weekend, and will require you to do a little leg work in order to purchase at a good price. With the car being built in Japan on the same factory and production line (i could be mistaken about the production line) as the LFA, this is a rare modern Japanese built sports car with a lot of the same R&D that makes the GR Yaris special. I can't say too much more, bc reviews aren't out and I haven't driven it, but I do have high hopes for this car. And as mentioned above, I had a pretty easy time getting a deposit on the car at MSRP. Hopefully the car won't suck ass, lol.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

I agree with most of what you're saying, so I think we are on the same page here. It is annoying that almost any car you're looking at in any price bracket requires you to fellate multiple salesman for the privilege of giving them your money. You've taken what was stereotyped as a shady job, and added such a massive consumer demand, that many dealers are trying to price gouge every customer on every car. I do understand this to a certain extent since this is a market economy, but it is perpetuating many of the negative stereotypes that have been synonymous with the "sleezy" car salesman job. Case in point, I was talking to a salesman about a Z3m that was getting PPI'd before sale. Guy rarely replied to my messages, blew me off repeatedly, didn't give me the information I requested, and ghosted me after a few days. It felt like I was messaging someone on Tinder.

Back to the Corolla, I do think that this is a special car, much more special than a RS3 or STI (no offense) and once the hype dies down a bit, it should be available at MSRP. Yes this will never be a car you can walk down to the local Toyota dealership and pick up on a weekend, and will require you to do a little leg work in order to purchase at a good price. With the car being built in Japan on the same factory and production line (i could be mistaken about the production line) as the LFA, this is a rare modern Japanese built sports car with a lot of the same R&D that makes the GR Yaris special. I can't say too much more, bc reviews aren't out and I haven't driven it, but I do have high hopes for this car. And as mentioned above, I had a pretty easy time getting a deposit on the car at MSRP. Hopefully the car won't suck ass, lol.

Corolla over RS3? lol

What's the GR expected to cost, around $30k before options? Meh, maybe a possible new daily for the lady when it's time to shop for her, but it's not for me at $30k

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

If they called the car a GR 300 instead of a Corolla, you'd be cool with it being a limited production model. But the fact that it's badged as a Corolla there should be a ton available for whoever wants them bc Corollas are cheap, readily available cars?

It's a mass produced Toyota Corolla so yes. Just like a Vette is a mass produced GM

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

It's a mass produced Toyota Corolla so yes. Just like a Vette is a mass produced GM

So an M2C/CS, M3C, M5CS should all be as readily available as the sedan/coupe counterparts they're based on? As are the blackwing options from Cadillac?

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

So an M2C/CS, M3C, M5CS should all be as readily available as the sedan counterparts they're based on?

An M3, M5 etc is also a mass produced car. If you are worried about exclusivity, go get a 250 GTO

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

An M3, M5 etc is also a mass produced car. If you are worried about exclusivity, go get a 250 GTO

I don't care if they make 6500 or 65000

I'm not arguing exclusivity. I'm saying the Corolla badge is irrelevant. Regardless of how many they make it's a special car.

[Red Bread]

Built on a different production line with 300 something additional hand laid welds and a good amount more adhesive plus some additional bracing.

[freakystyly]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...ction-numbers/ from a bit less than a week ago.. their goal is to keep it "exclusive".

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by freakystyly

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...ction-numbers/ from a bit less than a week ago.. their goal is to keep it "exclusive".

I read that as we will likely not make a lot of money on it
So let's kill 2 birds with one stone
Make it exclusive and artificially inflates it's specialness
And all the while limiting out losses
This car had a lot of potential, but some of the people in my circle have passed on trying to obtain one

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Built on a different production line with 300 something additional hand laid welds and a good amount more adhesive plus some additional bracing.

Screenshot of road & track article :

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Ginster6

Its family...

It just sounds like you meant FORTUNATE that you'll be getting it at MSRP when everyone else will have to pay ADM.

ESL?

[damnitBobby]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

Back to the Corolla, I do think that this is a special car, much more special than a RS3 or STI (no offense) and once the hype dies down a bit, it should be available at MSRP. Yes this will never be a car you can walk down to the local Toyota dealership and pick up on a weekend, and will require you to do a little leg work in order to purchase at a good price. With the car being built in Japan on the same factory and production line (i could be mistaken about the production line) as the LFA, this is a rare modern Japanese built sports car with a lot of the same R&D that makes the GR Yaris special. I can't say too much more, bc reviews aren't out and I haven't driven it, but I do have high hopes for this car. And as mentioned above, I had a pretty easy time getting a deposit on the car at MSRP. Hopefully the car won't suck ass, lol.

Respectfully disagreeing here. I know the media got this car real hyped right now. But let's be honest with ourselves, this car will be no faster than a STI, EvoX, CTR, Golf R or any of those cars that have been on the market for quite some time now. There's nothing groundbreaking in what will be offered here. AWD economy car with souped up little motor

I know it's a Toyota product and it will be reliable. We all know that. But people these days (especially the people on here) don't keep their cars long enough to see it go past 100k miles. Most get bored and trade it in before they probably even reach 40-50k miles. I'm guilty of this myself lately.

I mean it's a cool car and all, and I think it's one of the better looking hot hatches. But the media coverage is really playing up a car that is recycling a very old formula.

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

Respectfully disagreeing here. I know the media got this car real hyped right now. But let's be honest with ourselves, this car will be no faster than a STI, EvoX, CTR, Golf R or any of those cars that have been on the market for quite some time now. There's nothing groundbreaking in what will be offered here. AWD economy car with souped up little motor

I know it's a Toyota product and it will be reliable. We all know that. But people these days (especially the people on here) don't keep their cars long enough to see it go past 100k miles. Most get bored and trade it in before they probably even reach 40-50k miles. I'm guilty of this myself lately.

I mean it's a cool car and all, and I think it's one of the better looking hot hatches. But the media coverage is really playing up a car that is recycling a very old formula.

Nothing wrong with the car being as fast as a Golf R or an STI or a type R civic, isn't that the yardstick for hot hatches?

0-60 times are a pointless metric, it'll come down to driving dynamics and the "fun" factor plus price paid.

In terms of pricing, would I pay $55k for a GR Corolla? Definitely not. But I also don't think an m2 comp is worth $70k nor a Porsche carrera S at $170k nor a GT3 at $250k.

There's plenty of trash being made by BMW, MB, Lexus, Audi, pretty much every brand. I can't speak for everyone but I'm not into 90% of cars in any manufacturers current lineup. I do think as an enthusiast community, we should all be giving props to any manufacturer making a car like a GR Corolla, or a manual M3, or any of the aforementioned sports cars.

If you're not into the aesthetic of the GR Corolla I get it, but it's an actual Japanese built rally inspired hot hatch. If you're upset that a Corolla is commanding a markup solely bc it's badged as a Corolla, then you're most likely a brand snob that's way too insecure.

I'll also say, that we have no idea how this will drive, hopefully it's not all hype. Fingers crossed that reality meets and exceeds expectations.

[Red Bread]

Toyota made a Yaris cool. Think about that. Surely they can do okay with a Corolla. The TNGA one isn't bad aside from being underpowered. I suspect this little thing will be great to drive.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by damnitBobby

Respectfully disagreeing here. I know the media got this car real hyped right now. But let's be honest with ourselves, this car will be no faster than a STI, EvoX, CTR, Golf R or any of those cars that have been on the market for quite some time now. There's nothing groundbreaking in what will be offered here. AWD economy car with souped up little motor

I know it's a Toyota product and it will be reliable. We all know that. But people these days (especially the people on here) don't keep their cars long enough to see it go past 100k miles. Most get bored and trade it in before they probably even reach 40-50k miles. I'm guilty of this myself lately.

I mean it's a cool car and all, and I think it's one of the better looking hot hatches. But the media coverage is really playing up a car that is recycling a very old formula.

Can you explain to me what modern ICE car today isn't based on a recycled old formula whether it be FWD, RWD, or AWD? Yes it's an old formula but the EVO and STI no longer exist and the CTR is FWD so the Golf R is really all that's left and it's more of a refined FWD biased car that has mixed reviews. The media is playing it up because; A) It's a sporty car that's actually made by Toyota and B) It's a modern take on EVO's and STI's of the past.

[Sublime00]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Toyota made a Yaris cool. Think about that. Surely they can do okay with a Corolla. The TNGA one isn't bad aside from being underpowered. I suspect this little thing will be great to drive.

They def made the Yaris cool.

I'm hoping it's this much fun:

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Can you explain to me what modern ICE car today isn't based on a recycled old formula whether it be FWD, RWD, or AWD? Yes it's an old formula but the EVO and STI no longer exist and the CTR is FWD so the Golf R is really all that's left and it's more of a refined FWD biased car that has mixed reviews. The media is playing it up because; A) It's a sporty car that's actually made by Toyota and B) It's a modern take on EVO's and STI's of the past.

Especially amusing he brings up "tired old formula" and then mentions the STi that used the same fragile engine for nearly 20 years. Talk about a tired old formula.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Especially amusing he brings up "tired old formula" and then mentions the STi that used the same fragile engine for nearly 20 years. Talk about a tired old formula.

Exactly. It's not that the formula was old and tired and more that Subaru kept using the exact same formula for nearly 20 years. Toyota's take on the formula is purely modern.

[damnitBobby]

Sensitive crowd. True every formula will be recycled, but my comments are directed towards people with expectations that this car will be an automotive revelation.

Hopefully this modern take will at least be faster than the current crop of zippy hot hatches.

[Ginster6]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

It just sounds like you meant FORTUNATE that you'll be getting it at MSRP when everyone else will have to pay ADM.

ESL?

Yes ESL problems.......... LOL

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Sublime00

I don't care if they make 6500 or 65000

I'm not arguing exclusivity. I'm saying the Corolla badge is irrelevant. Regardless of how many they make it's a special car.

You keep changing your argument.
No one is impressed by a Corolla.