[EricVR4]

Originally Posted by Chelsea_Tractor

I think one of the issues is manufactures saying rubbish like the gearbox is filled for life. Life being defined as 100k miles. The warranty takes you up to 60k / 3 years on some and after that the not-mentioned maintenance starts. May be it is a sales thing. Getting people into newer models and profit margins. So when the support ends at 60k miles the panic has already been created. One of things BMW don't do is the high mileage club like Mercedes. For keeping your Mercedes 100k miles and more you receive a badge / mini medal and certificate for your documents. In fact Mercedes are so confident many of their models can make it to starship mileages why don't BMW hold the same confidence?

Financial gurus offering advice on how a car cost more the older it gets. We live in a fast paced world where some people don't know how to slow down. Even maintaining a car seems like an effort to some so they opt for a service package.

I came from a generation where cars were passed down. I had two uncles working in Ford. One uncle even went on to work on buses and heavy haulage equipment. Whenever we would go to see my uncle he would be under his car. Tinkering with it or maintaining it. He taught his son maintenance and how to change oil. Not every man is hands on. I saw my dad change taps on a sink once and fit fog lights to his car. Beyond that I never bonded with him over cars yet I became a car guy somehow. We bonded over computers as that was his thing. I built my own PC at age 14. All my cousins were spending $$$$ on things such as the Gateway 2000 or whatever the latest model was. My $150 one made of parts from different computers destroyed theirs. I digress but you get the picture it depends on childhood influences and values.

My dad kept his car 10 years+ and every car until it died or couldn't be repaired. If the repair was worth more than the car he didn't have it fixed by his brother. I learned the value of things and kept my cars longer until I met my wife. I wouldn't say she is materialistic but she thought I could do better. She encouraged me to get my first BMW. It was a ball ache to maintain but for some reason I fell in love with it and wonder who is driving it now. When it wasn't worth repairing I moved on to my next BMW. My reason for change being to save money.

I think manufacturers have also made it difficult to DIY. They want you to go to the service department. Making specialist tools or inside knowledge of things they can only fix. This is probably another thing that puts people off. May be it too complex or time consuming to learn about new things.

I think I am rambling on here so will stop here.

That's my thing with these cars. I grew up working on/building them, and had a 3000GT VR4 that I built through college. Did all of the work by myself or with a friend, tearing down the engine completely, rebuilding the transmission/transfer case/rear diff, swapping turbos, intercoolers, clutches, etc. But that's a car from the 90s, it had a lot of tech on it for that decade but nowhere near stuff now, and it was still pretty easy to work on.

I would love to get an M3 (looking for a ZCP now) but owning that outside of a warranty long term and worrying about stuff like the DCT, water to air intercooling system, VANOS, and all the other numerous computers that control every aspect of the car......I'm out of my depth with all of that. It's also expensive as hell to pay people to do it for you. So the logical solution (aside from just not buying it in the first place, which isn't gonna happen haha) is to sell it and move on to something else with a warranty.

Times change *shrug*

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by EricVR4

So the logical solution (aside from just not buying it in the first place, which isn't gonna happen haha) is to sell it and move on to something else with a warranty.

You know what's really sickening now? I recently traded in my N55 135i because it developed rod knock with less than 34k miles, bone stock, never tracked.

I had to eat some negative equity on it as once my mechanic confirmed what I was hearing, I was not willing to drive it any further than to the Mazda dealer to trade it in on a lightly used Mazda 3 (1 mile down the road).

Between the negative equity, cost of registering the new vehicle (thank you Oklahoma for adding a sales tax on top of the excise tax when registering a vehicle).........wasn't that far off the 5 year 100k mile drivetrain warranty I could have got when I purchased the car last year.


So I'd still have the 135, with a fresh engine.

[duder13]

Yeah, there seems to be an inverse relationship between cars becoming more capable vs. fun to actually drive. In the Porsche forums, I’d often see the advice to potential buyers, “Buy the newest one you can afford,” but I’d wonder if the better advice would be “Buy the oldest one you can afford to keep on the road.”

That being said, while I complain about current BMWs and Porsches vs. the ones I’ve owned from last decade, there are owners of BMWs and Porsches from 50 years ago that snicker.

[10"]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

You know what's really sickening now? I recently traded in my N55 135i because it developed rod knock with less than 34k miles, bone stock, never tracked.

I had to eat some negative equity on it as once my mechanic confirmed what I was hearing, I was not willing to drive it any further than to the Mazda dealer to trade it in on a lightly used Mazda 3 (1 mile down the road).

Between the negative equity, cost of registering the new vehicle (thank you Oklahoma for adding a sales tax on top of the excise tax when registering a vehicle).........wasn't that far off the 5 year 100k mile drivetrain warranty I could have got when I purchased the car last year.


So I'd still have the 135, with a fresh engine.

Why didn't you just get the 135 fixed?

[10"]

Originally Posted by Chelsea_Tractor

I think one of the issues is manufactures saying rubbish like the gearbox is filled for life. Life being defined as 100k miles. The warranty takes you up to 60k / 3 years on some and after that the not-mentioned maintenance starts. May be it is a sales thing. Getting people into newer models and profit margins. So when the support ends at 60k miles the panic has already been created. One of things BMW don't do is the high mileage club like Mercedes. For keeping your Mercedes 100k miles and more you receive a badge / mini medal and certificate for your documents. In fact Mercedes are so confident many of their models can make it to starship mileages why don't BMW hold the same confidence?

Financial gurus offering advice on how a car cost more the older it gets. We live in a fast paced world where some people don't know how to slow down. Even maintaining a car seems like an effort to some so they opt for a service package.

I came from a generation where cars were passed down. I had two uncles working in Ford. One uncle even went on to work on buses and heavy haulage equipment. Whenever we would go to see my uncle he would be under his car. Tinkering with it or maintaining it. He taught his son maintenance and how to change oil. Not every man is hands on. I saw my dad change taps on a sink once and fit fog lights to his car. Beyond that I never bonded with him over cars yet I became a car guy somehow. We bonded over computers as that was his thing. I built my own PC at age 14. All my cousins were spending $$$$ on things such as the Gateway 2000 or whatever the latest model was. My $150 one made of parts from different computers destroyed theirs. I digress but you get the picture it depends on childhood influences and values.

My dad kept his car 10 years+ and every car until it died or couldn't be repaired. If the repair was worth more than the car he didn't have it fixed by his brother. I learned the value of things and kept my cars longer until I met my wife. I wouldn't say she is materialistic but she thought I could do better. She encouraged me to get my first BMW. It was a ball ache to maintain but for some reason I fell in love with it and wonder who is driving it now. When it wasn't worth repairing I moved on to my next BMW. My reason for change being to save money.

I think manufacturers have also made it difficult to DIY. They want you to go to the service department. Making specialist tools or inside knowledge of things they can only fix. This is probably another thing that puts people off. May be it is too complex, costly or time consuming to learn about new things.

I think I am rambling on here so will stop here.

I think cars are more complex to fix these days BUT still more satisfying and economical to do that rather than change cars every couple of years and just throwing money away. Also one gets to buy and keep a car they love rather than just settle for the next appliance...

[10"]

Originally Posted by duder13

Yeah, there seems to be an inverse relationship between cars becoming more capable vs. fun to actually drive. In the Porsche forums, I’d often see the advice to potential buyers, “Buy the newest one you can afford,” but I’d wonder if the better advice would be “Buy the oldest one you can afford to keep on the road.”

That being said, while I complain about current BMWs and Porsches vs. the ones I’ve owned from last decade, there are owners of BMWs and Porsches from 50 years ago that snicker.

Ya I don't even care for the 911 after the 997. Dead to me! The older the better I say!

[duder13]

Originally Posted by 10"

Ya I don't even care for the 911 after the 997. Dead to me! The older the better I say!

Yeah, we all have our sweet spot, but I currently like the BMWs and Porsches from last decade’ish, because they’re still safe (I have a child) and somewhat reliable, yet also have hydraulic steering, lots of manual transmission options, etc. If I didn’t want the larger family space in my E82, I’d likely be driving a 987 or 997. I loved my 987 Cayman.

[10"]

Originally Posted by duder13

Yeah, we all have our sweet spot, but I currently like the BMWs and Porsches from last decade'ish, because they're still safe (I have a child) and somewhat reliable, yet also have hydraulic steering, lots of manual transmission options, etc. If I didn't want the larger family space in my E82, I'd likely be driving a 987 or 997. I loved my 987 Cayman.

Totally agree. No 911 can be a family car the way my 1er has been.

[New2Roundel]

Enthusiasts definitely makes decisions about cars and parts that confuse me. Like the OP, why spend money on a new car only to get something "better" within a couple of years. I never understood people who bought mods for cars they don't yet own---or dump like $10k into a car all at once.

But you know, there are likely people out there who look at my decisions and also shake their heads. At the end of the day though, who really cares? I mean does it really matter how people spend their money? Just because it doesn't fit my approach doesn't really mean it's actually wrong.

And for the record there are 4 cars in my household:
VW Corrado: Owned 19 yrs
Hyundai Tucson: Owned 9 yrs (and with 146k miles)
BMW M3: Owned 4 yrs
Jeep SRT: Owned 7 months (nothing traded in for this)

I'm not someone who typically jumps to trade cars, unless I really don't like driving the car or it's a problem. I don't want to keep my M3 forever, but I still enjoy it, so I haven't really considered selling it in any serious way. If someone made me a strong offer though, I'd certainly give it some thought.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by 10"

Why didn't you just get the 135 fixed?

Because spending $6k to have a USED engine put in the car seemed beyond stupid. Would have also put me another $6k into the car, that adds exactly zero to the value. Actually detracts from the value.

This seems pretty obvious to the average person.

[freakystyly]

Disposable car culture.

Without people flipping cars out of lease or warranty the used market would dry up tho.

Would be nice if people in general took a higher level of care of their driving appliances tho. I'm noticing a lot more scuffed up bumpers and poorly maintained not so old cars spewing smoke.

[c1pher]

I will merely touch on some of my thoughts regarding this topic.

First, it’s my money and I’m allowed to spend it how I want within legal limits of course.

Cars are becoming more and more recyclable although not fully, so buying new isn’t totally wasteful.

I had to drive POSs when I was young and can now afford nicer, newer cars and a variety of driving experiences but am limited on space so cannot keep every car I buy.

Cars as they become older do cost more to maintain. Even my venerable Jeep Cherokee that had 350,000 miles which we kept as a beater cost as much just to buy a new car despite supposedly being bulletproof. When someone is looking at replacing suspension and doing a lot of engine work as part of routine maintenance sometimes it’s just worth it to walk away. And there’s peace of mind knowing you won’t be left on the side of the road.

Additionally, cars are generally safer than even a car made ten years ago.

Just a few random thoughts about it.

[10"]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Because spending $6k to have a USED engine put in the car seemed beyond stupid. Would have also put me another $6k into the car, that adds exactly zero to the value. Actually detracts from the value.

This seems pretty obvious to the average person.

It's not stupid if you love a car. People used to put in new engines all the time. Not stupid at all actually...

If you don't love a car then sure do whatever...

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by 10"

It's not stupid if you love a car. People used to put in new engines all the time. Not stupid at all actually...

If you don't love a car then sure do whatever...

I don't think anyone here loves a stock '13 135i enough to be into it for $28k with an unknown used engine. I paid $22k for it last year.

Love a car or not, that just plain doesn't make sense.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I don't think anyone here loves a stock '13 135i enough to be into it for $28k with an unknown used engine. I paid $22k for it last year.

Love a car or not, that just plain doesn't make sense.

How does it not? You either eat $6k to fix it or eat $6k on the evaluation of the car. Is it a tomato tomahto scenario

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by super51fan

How does it not?

To be $28k into a car worth maybe $18k?

I guess the fanboism knows no bounds.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

To be $28k into a car worth maybe $18k?

I guess the fanboism knows no bounds.

My comment still stands even if we were referring to a Camry, nothing to do with fanyboyism in any way.

Youre paying for the repair in one way or another

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by super51fan

My comment still stands even if we were referring to a Camry, nothing to do with fanyboyism in any way.

Youre paying for the repair in one way or another

Considering what I got for trade-in value, I essentially paid $2k to get rid of a $6k repair.....a repair that still would have left me with a used engine, accessories, turbo, etc. And now, even though I'm driving something boring, it has 4 years of warranty left on it.

But I digress, we've been taking this way off topic.

[super51fan]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Considering what I got for trade-in value, I essentially paid $2k to get rid of a $6k repair.....a repair that still would have left me with a used engine, accessories, turbo, etc. And now, even though I'm driving something boring, it has 4 years of warranty left on it.

But I digress, we've been taking this way off topic.

That's only because you got lucky and stated the dealership didn't notice the knock, some would consider this lying but I digress

[GenXer]

Not the latest and certainly not the greatest but I traded my 2018 X1 for a 2019 430i Gran Coupe last week. It's not as practical as the X1 but it sure is a lot more fun.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Whoever said money can't buy you happiness just isn't doing it right
by DAVID BOOTH | AUGUST 2, 2019

https://driving.ca/features/feature-...ness-after-all

I have long held the belief that the “science” surrounding happiness is really just a ginormous crock of smelly brown stuff. I am not talking about just those idiotic self-help books — The New Good Life, 10% Happier, etc. — or even all those positive-thinking “life coaches” — I am looking at you, Tony Robbins — peddling the power of self-delusion. Even scholarly articles — titles like The Secret to Happiness are popular even amongst professional psychologists — perpetuate some truly outrageous fantasies, the most important of which, at least the most important to a car columnist, is that money can’t buy happiness.

Yes, I am really going to take on the oldest truism in pop psychology, a maxim so popular, so universally accepted, that I’m guessing every parent at some point in time mouthed it. Yes, you know it. Let’s say it all together …

Money can’t buy happiness.

Now, let’s never mind that no one in a third world country has ever mouthed these words. Or that it takes the barest amount of common sense to understand that, even in a worst-case scenario, it’s probably better to be rich and unhappy than poor and unhappy. Let’s just take those as givens, shall we? What I’d really like to talk about is this misconception that possessions — the things we are supposedly wasting our money on — can’t make us happy. Indeed, the accepted wisdom seems to be that said possessions make us decidedly unhappier.

The theory, as neatly explained by David Futrelle in Time magazine’s recent The Science of Happiness journal, is that, because we humans are adaptable creatures, we will always “overestimate how much pleasure we’ll get from having more.” We quickly adjust to our newfound wealth — the “hedonic treadmill,” Futrelle calls it — our increased affluence becoming our new paradigm. Thus, says the theory, the joy of the new car you just bought or the spanking new condo you just moved into will always be fleeting.

The reason, goes the theory, that that the new Porsche or BMW isn’t making us happy is that we are always comparing ourselves to our neighbours, H.L. Mencken famously quipping that a happy man is one who makes $100 more than his wife’s sister’s husband. Happiness scholars, says Futrelle, have found that “how you stand relative to others makes a bigger difference in your sense of well-being than how much you make in an absolute sense,” which is the reason why, says the author, in the case of cars, when the shiny newness of said new Porsche wears off, “you don’t question the notion that you can buy happiness on a car lot,” but rather your choice of car.

That’s why pretty much every author on the subject says that buying “experiences” is a surer road to fulfillment. “Things that don’t last create the most lasting happiness,” says Futrelle, mainly because, as he quotes Cornell University psychologist Tom Gilovich, “experience tend to blossom as you recall them,” not age like the suddenly tatty Chrysler in your driveway. Indeed, that seems to be the reason, according to a recent University of Colorado survey, that students got more pleasure out of “doing things” rather than “having things.”

It is also, however, where this whole eschewing personal possessions theory falls apart. Last time I looked, the majority of said experiences — certainly the majority of the experiences that bring me pleasure — require a certain amount of … let’s call it equipment. For instance, I loving racing cars round a track and, having done pretty much nothing but for the last 30 years or so, I can absolutely assure you said experience will be a whole lot more joyful in a brand new Lamborghini than it will be in a clapped-out Toyota Camry. Anyone not understanding that simple equation either hasn’t driven a Lamborghini — which, counter to Futrelle’s thesis, I can assure you will remain a source of contentment long after the newness wears off — or has no idea of how to drive a car. The same would apply for anyone looking to “experience” off-road Jeeping, long-distance boat trailering or just the ordinary act of hauling of cord wood. Anyone thinking that the quality — and, hence, the cost — of your possessions won’t add to the joyfulness of your experience is probably just a poor person fooling themselves.

Oh, I suppose one could make an argument for diminishing returns, that the rewards for trading up from a new $69,998 C8 Corvette to a $631,680 Lamborghini Aventador SVJ will not be commensurate with the monies spent. Or that possessing five Lamborghinis won’t make you happier than owning just one (though I can see an excellent argument to be made for having five Lambos stored at five different race tracks — let’s start with Laguna Seca — around the world).

But such relativism works both ways. Sometimes it isn’t the absolute amount you spend, but rather the relative expenditure that matters. As an example, I have weathered many a rainstorm aboard a motorcycle in both cheap and expensive rain suits, and let me assure you that my “experience” has always been far “happier” when I was not chilled to the bone. I am in possession of both Bell Revolver ($300) and Schuberth E1 ($1,000) modular motorcycle helmets. Both share almost identical spec sheets, but wildly different build qualities. Care to guess which one makes me happier? And no, I have yet to suffer what Futrelle calls “hedonic adaption” — that which is superior eventually becoming our new norm — despite owning the latter for more than four years. Indeed, I just went out and bought an identical Schuberth precisely because I knew it would make my long-term experiences happy when the current one wears out.

Indeed, the whole notion that “money can’t buy happiness” would seem to be based on the fallacy that the problem lies in the mere possession of a material good and not the reason to possess it. That trying to keep up with the Joneses will not make you happy in the long term — envy being, after all, the crack cocaine of emotions — is somehow still news absolutely baffles me. To blame the resultant lack of contentment on the possession and not the motivation is sheer idiocy. Indeed, even Futrelle quotes professor Gilovich as noting that people are “happiest when they are wringing experiences out of everything they spend money on.”

Or, to quote a famous Lexus ad: “Whoever said money can’t buy happiness just isn’t doing it right.”

[OkieSnuffBox]

^Great article, thanks for sharing!

I had the exact same experience when I still rode sportbikes. I thought my cheesy HJC helmet was OK, until I bought what was at the time, a top-of-the-line Shoei. Fit, construction was dramatically better, much better venting at speed, much lighter.

Same when I stepped up to Sidi boots and everything.