[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've had a pickup in my fleet for nearly the full 45 years I've had a driver's license because need a pickup truck. I don't think the "vast majority" are emotional support vehicles anymore than an ///M car is. Not sure why a lot of people dislike the people who own and use pickups, but whatever.

i would make this arguement...

folks that buy "m" cars are likely more of an enthusiast than someone buying any truck and likely use their cars for their intended purpose "fun, fast driving" more so than the guy that drives to his office job every day in an f150... again, could be wrong but I live in the land of trucks and I see it every day

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by dfox

Feel free to do whatever makes you happy. Great that we have choices. Doesn't change how I see them though.

I grab my neighbors utility trailer that's substantially larger than any pickup truck bed. And if my neighbor didn't already have one, they're dirt cheap to rent. Much more useful than any pickup. More tiedowns. Easier to load and unload because it's closer to the ground. No concern about damaging anything because it's just wood and steel. Used it to buy siding to reside our house, engineered wood flooring for the first floor of our house, fireplace, new range, new fridge, etc... and I don't need to drive an oversized pickup that's a pain in the ass to park in the city, where my work also takes me a lot.

I don't disagree. My utility trailer is 4x8, and I'd get a 5' bed. It's way more useful for bang it up stuff cuz it was $400 not $75000. That said, having a modest bed with you at all times is great too. If I'm at Costco and decide to buy something large they have there, I can do it without having to go home, unpack the trailer, hitch up, and come back. Those slur of the moment things is where a truck as a daily really shines. I just wish they would make sport trucks again so they're fun to drive too, not these giant fake offroad trucks they keep pushing.

It's also nice when you have a neighbor with a trailer you can use, lol. Renting one one is cheap but a pain in the butt. Especially if you're not buying whatever you need from the place you're renting it from. And man, I HATE driving an unloaded trailer.

Frankly, I wish I could get something like the avalanche or Escalade EXT. I really wish it was sporty and fast. I had high hopes for the EV Silverado RST, and they managed to totally meet none of them.

[dreamingat30fps]

So renting a truck for those couple of times you need it is fine... but renting an ICE car for those couple of times you need to go on cross country road trips... oooh heeeeellll nawww!!!

Truck hate and EV hate (or should I say dislike for certain vehicular platforms? Is that PC enough?) are just different sides of the same coin.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

So renting a truck for those couple of times you need it is fine... but renting an ICE car for those couple of times you need to go on cross country road trips... oooh heeeeellll nawww!!!

Truck hate and EV hate (or should I say dislike for certain vehicular platforms? Is that PC enough?) are just different sides of the same coin.

I sort of agree, and sort of disagree. On the one hand, a truck is theost versatile vehicle you can own, that's why they're so popular. They can do ANYTHING. Family car, haul stuff in the bed, row, go fast, road trips, city trips, they don't all. On the other end, EVa are different where they do kinda one thing. Sure you could road trip them... If you're not in a hurry, but they're really good at commutes within their battery range. So in essence, they're total opposites.

That said, the argument that you don't need a truck cuz you can rent one and that you don't need anything other than an EV cuz you can rent a gas car are the same. It's also the argument for why you don't need a wife cuz you can rent a hooker, or anything that someone else thinks you shouldn't have,, it's a mentality of "I know what's best for you better than you do".

That said, I'd be willing to be that the people saying to rent a truck are the same people saying to rent an ICE for trips.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I sort of agree, and sort of disagree. On the one hand, a truck is theost versatile vehicle you can own, that's why they're so popular. They can do ANYTHING. Family car, haul stuff in the bed, row, go fast, road trips, city trips, they don't all. On the other end, EVa are different where they do kinda one thing. Sure you could road trip them... If you're not in a hurry, but they're really good at commutes within their battery range. So in essence, they're total opposites.

That said, the argument that you don't need a truck cuz you can rent one and that you don't need anything other than an EV cuz you can rent a gas car are the same. It's also the argument for why you don't need a wife cuz you can rent a hooker, or anything that someone else thinks you shouldn't have,, it's a mentality of "I know what's best for you better than you do".

That said, I'd be willing to be that the people saying to rent a truck are the same people saying to rent an ICE for trips.

To be clear. I believe both extremes are stupid (as an ICE car owner, truck owner and EV owner). Buy whatever you want that fits your needs.

That being said I have definitely experienced hate from trucks while driving the Tesla. I have never experienced hate from EVs while driving the truck. Both sides just need to get over it.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Well, I'd say there is a difference. There was no legislation to support the privately held national fleet of vehicles to eventually be converted to non-pickup trucks. There is a movement within the legislative process to eliminate the internal combustion engine as a source of power for automobiles. Eventually there will be no option to rent an ICEV for long trips.

You're doing it not me.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I live in a rural farming county. I'd say it is 70% pickup truck ownership here. What is the difference between driving an empty 5-seat sedan with an empty trunk to the office vs. an empty pickup truck with and empty bed? Some of you have this notion that because a pickup truck has a pickup bed on it, the bed needs to be full anytime the truck is driven. Sort of a stupid concept. And we call that an "emotional support vehicle" as some sort of off-handed insult? LOL.

the big difference to me personally would be the 5 seat sedan is likely more comfortable, faster, gets better gas mileage and likely handles better and is far easier to park... which imho is a solid trade off the little use bed space every once in a while... again, some will feel different... but day to day thats not what i see

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ASAP

the big difference to me personally would be the 5 seat sedan is likely more comfortable, faster, gets better gas mileage and likely handles better and is far easier to park... which imho is a solid trade off the little use bed space every once in a while... again, some will feel different... but day to day thats not what i see

You haven't been in a newer truck I'm guessing. They're faster and more comfortable than most sedans. Gas mileage I'll give you in the cars that don't handle any better than the trucks, but not vs a sport sedan like an M550i. The trade off there is more reliable and more spacious. Easier to park? 50/50, they typically have better visibility so you can see what's going on better, and while yes, they are larger, you get used to just backing the truck up into a spot. I would argue places with slots that don't fit have too small of spots to begin with and I wouldn't want to go there even not in a truck. This coming from a suburbanite, not someone in the big empty rural areas (though I did love those giant parking lots). There are places with crap parking lots we just don't go to because their parking sucks.

I get it, trucks aren't for everyone..neither are EVe, or sports cars, or sedans... That freedom of choice is what makes America great. The hate for trucks is very much a us vs them political thing.eV hate likely too but for different reasons (taxpayers aren't paying for 10% or more of a new expensive truck for people. Plus Teslas are super ugly and offensive to look at because they're so hideous.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

You haven't been in a newer truck I'm guessing. They're faster and more comfortable than most sedans. Gas mileage I'll give you in the cars that don't handle any better than the trucks, but not vs a sport sedan like an M550i. The trade off there is more reliable and more spacious. Easier to park? 50/50, they typically have better visibility so you can see what's going on better, and while yes, they are larger, you get used to just backing the truck up into a spot. I would argue places with slots that don't fit have too small of spots to begin with and I wouldn't want to go there even not in a truck. This coming from a suburbanite, not someone in the big empty rural areas (though I did love those giant parking lots). There are places with crap parking lots we just don't go to because their parking sucks.

I get it, trucks aren't for everyone..neither are EVe, or sports cars, or sedans... That freedom of choice is what makes America great. The hate for trucks is very much a us vs them political thing.eV hate likely too but for different reasons (taxpayers aren't paying for 10% or more of a new expensive truck for people. Plus Teslas are super ugly and offensive to look at because they're so hideous.

That's just simply not true... if you mean more comfortable as in size sure... but in terms of suspension, no way... the body on frame setup makes the car wobble no matter what you do... my friend has a brand new f150 and another has a brand new f350 (granted he uses this one for work)... and yes they are full of features and well finished (they also cost close to $100K)... but when we drove it, it still felt like a truck and there was no changing that. Another friend of mine has a new raptor that doesn't fit it his garage and is loud as hell on the street but arguably he uses it offroad every once in a while so there is that...

if you like trucks, that's fine and there is no problem with that, i even like trucks... but i would argue most people never use their trucks for what they are for and live w the downsides of them... arguably, i would say because it's a lifestyle thing (at least definitely here in the south).

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ASAP

That's just simply not true... if you mean more comfortable as in size sure... but in terms of suspension, no way... the body on frame setup makes the car wobble no matter what you do... my friend has a brand new f150 and another has a brand new f350 (granted he uses this one for work)... and yes they are full of features and well finished (they also cost close to $100K)... but when we drove it, it still felt like a truck and there was no changing that. Another friend of mine has a new raptor that doesn't fit it his garage and is loud as hell on the street but arguably he uses it offroad every once in a while so there is that..

350 is a huge work truck that doesn't ride well when not being worked. Raptors ride like shit because they're bro dozers. But a well equipped F150 without the crazy brodozers stuff rides great. Ram too, it even has 4 corner coil springs or air as an option. Escalades and Navigators are body on frame too, and nobody has ever complained they're wobble and don't ride nicely, lol.

The best riding vehicles I've ever spent a lot of time in are my X5, and then right below that our expedition and my f150. That includes countless rentals, crossovers of friends, sedans, luxury cars... A nicely equipped truck without all the stupid off-road pack stuff just rides great. My f150 was super comfortable, but it had the fx4 package which had soft off-road shocks, and so it leaned on turns and I hated that coming from a Corvette. My next truck with get a ridetech lowered suspension for sure.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I live in a rural farming county. I'd say it is 70% pickup truck ownership here. What is the difference between driving an empty 5-seat sedan with an empty trunk to the office vs. an empty pickup truck with and empty bed? Some of you have this notion that because a pickup truck has a pickup bed on it, the bed needs to be full anytime the truck is driven. Sort of a stupid concept. And we call that an "emotional support vehicle" as some sort of off-handed insult? LOL.

Weight, size, efficiency are all pretty big differences between a commuter sedan vs commuter pickup.

I can't stand being on the road behind a pickup (or full size suv for that matter). When you live in a somewhat dense city, parking a full size pickup truck is a challenge, and creates headaches for everyone else. They don't fit in the tiny compact parking spots that every developer wants to put in.

They're pretty inefficient, along with their BOF SUV brothers. They also weigh substantially more, so they do more damage to roads, and present a much larger risk to commuters in small cars. They do substantially more damage to other vehicles or property when they're involved in an accident.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by dfox

Weight, size, efficiency are all pretty big differences between a commuter sedan vs commuter pickup.

I can't stand being on the road behind a pickup (or full size suv for that matter). When you live in a somewhat dense city, parking a full size pickup truck is a challenge, and creates headaches for everyone else. They don't fit in the tiny compact parking spots that every developer wants to put in.

They're pretty inefficient, along with their BOF SUV brothers. They also weigh substantially more, so they do more damage to roads, and present a much larger risk to commuters in small cars. They do substantially more damage to other vehicles or property when they're involved in an accident.

They weigh significantly less than an EV. A fully loaded Powerboost F150 platinum super crew is 5100lbs. And they typically have tires that can last 80k miles or so and so those do far less damage than the 15-20k mile tires on an EV. So if we are going to complain about vehicles that do damage to roads or other cars, let's call it down the middle and point out that trucks and fullsize SUVs do far less damage to them than an EV, and are far safer for other cars and barriers than EVs.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

They weigh significantly less than an EV. A fully loaded Powerboost F250 platinum super crew is 5100lbs. And they typically have tires that can last 80k miles or so and so those do far less damage than the 15-20k mile tires on an EV. So if we are going to complain about vehicles that do damage to roads or other cars, let's call it down the middle and point out that trucks and fullsize SUVs do far less damage to them than an EV, and are far safer for other cars and barriers than EVs.

My driveway would disagree. My truck use to tear the shit out of my painted driveway no matter what I did or how gently I parked it. Never had the Tesla lift up the paint on the driveway. Fortunately, I now keep the truck in NC where the driveway is asphalt and doesn't care.

But yeah... these are all things in my super advanced quantum matrix that I consider every time I get a new vehicle.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

They weigh significantly less than an EV. A fully loaded Powerboost F250 platinum super crew is 5100lbs. And they typically have tires that can last 80k miles or so and so those do far less damage than the 15-20k mile tires on an EV. So if we are going to complain about vehicles that do damage to roads or other cars, let's call it down the middle and point out that trucks and fullsize SUVs do far less damage to them than an EV, and are far safer for other cars and barriers than EVs.

This tells me you have no freaking idea how much a Model S or 3 weighs.

And I can't find a modern/current F-250 less than 6700lbs or so.

Have you checked yourself for drugs?

I do agree big trucks are the new "7 series iL" for people.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've had all three sizes, a 1st gen Ford Ranger and a 10th generation F150. I'm now in a midsized (GM Colorado chassis). The Scout looks to be an in-betweener. Just like not everyone needs a full-size sedan. It's great to have choices. I have a Gen 6 Bronco and it's bigger than I expected, but still livable. A Bronco EREV pickup would be right-sized. I could pare down to just two vehicles then.

There are a few pick-ups in my area too, Ford Ranger seem to be more around and generally they belong to builders.

[jeff113]

Originally Posted by RM7

This tells me you have no freaking idea how much a Model S or 3 weighs.

And I can't find a modern/current F-250 less than 6700lbs or so.

Have you checked yourself for drugs?

I do agree big trucks are the new "7 series iL" for people.

Please don't waste your time arguing with BlkGS. He does not understand how measurements work. I gave up when he insisted the average American man is 6 foot tall.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by jeff113

Please don't waste your time arguing with BlkGS. He does not understand how measurements work. I gave up when he insisted the average American man is 6 foot tall.

Just wow, I'm 6 foot tall and not an American.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

A fully loaded Powerboost F250 platinum super crew is 5100lbs. And they typically have tires that can last 80k miles

TireRack would disagree with you. They have the statistics and reviews.

80K on any vehicle with any set of tires is impossibly rare.

[freakystyly]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So, in your world, people shouldn't be allowed to run pickups empty but are allowed to run 5-seat sedans empty? Because of a 5 - 10 MPG difference? What are we all allowed to drive? Do I need to get rid of my BOF Bronco that averages 21 MPG? Just 6 MPG less than my 3,000-pound Z4.

It's also perpetuating the arms race of safety standards for average vehicle size on the road... probably...

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by NSXR

80K on any vehicle with any set of tires is impossibly rare.

To be fair, highway spec tires on tirerack for trucks does show a few reviews that does get beyond the 80k mile marker (looked at the Continental terrain contact AT)But those tires are also specific for highway driving and typically aren’t designed for any other purpose like cornering

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

This tells me you have no freaking idea how much a Model S or 3 weighs.

And I can't find a modern/current F-250 less than 6700lbs or so.

Have you checked yourself for drugs?

I do agree big trucks are the new "7 series iL" for people.

F250 was a typo, should have said 150, hence calling out the Powerboost hybrid motor. 250s are huge with heavy duty frames designed to tow absurdly high loads. To be honest, unless you routinely tow >10k pounds, a 150 is all you'd want because the 250s kinda suck to drive without a couple thousand pounds on their hitch

Teslas aren't the only EVs. Just because they're made of nothing and are fairly light doesn't mean that's repetitive of the market as a whole. Charger EV, 5800lbs. Rivian R1T 7100lbs. VW ID4 4400-5000lbs. BMW iX up to 5800lbs. Silverado EV is up to 9100lbs. Hummer EV 96000lbs. Kia EV7 5800lbs.

These things weigh a crapload. The heaviest weight I can find for an Expedition Max is 5800lbs. Mine is a standard length and was 54xx on the scales at the dump loaded with half a tank of gas, car seats, all our other crap, and my little utility trailer full of palm fronds.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by kyriian

To be fair, highway spec tires on tirerack for trucks does show a few reviews that does get beyond the 80k mile marker (looked at the Continental terrain contact AT)But those tires are also specific for highway driving and typically aren’t designed for any other purpose like cornering

To be fair, that's really all you need in a daily driver truck though. There's no reason out put anything more aggressive than that on a 2.7T F150 you just use as a daily driver and for home Depot runs.

The pirelli scorpion as sport Nero hero whatever the hell they called them on our Expedition are 50k miles warranty tires, on a 22" wheel with a like 40 ratio sidewall. They were on the sporty end of what was available for it. It's also important to note that a 50k warranty tire doesn't mean it will be shot at 50k, that's the minimum they think the tire can get, and they'll pay for a portion of a new set of you don't. A boss I had in NC hit 100k on a set of tires on his 4.7 Tundra (which incidentally looked and drove brand new and had 270k miles on it - I was literally in disbelief when he told me that, it looked like it had maybe 30-40k easy miles on it).