[BMW269]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

Why do all of these American muscle / track car junkies feel the need to defend and justify their GT350/ATS-V/Hellcats against the Germans? Every forum about a new American track star eventually results into a bunch of cowboys sitting around and agreeing with each other why buying the next American muscle car is a no brainer over the M4/C63/RS5. Don't you have better things to talk about?

Gossip is the lowest form of discourse.

You don't get it? Because in general German cars are simply better than other cars. But this overconfidence in German cars often makes us miss some other just as good if not better alternatives. And as some can't understand that, that is it also possible that non-German cars are good, this happens.

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

The M3 was never intended to be hardcore performance car, with the exception of the E30, E46 CSL, ultra rare GTR, and E9x GTS. What the M is really about a good balance of luxury, comfort, practicality, and performance. And it is really good at BALANCING all of that even to these days, with all the AMGs, RS, F, V, whatever.

Don't get me wrong, I love the new GT350 and Z06, these cars are some of the best performance bargains you can buy right now. But if you want a LUXURY sport sedan, the M still offers some of the best cars in the business. So seriously, quite the bashings and start to appreciate the fact that different cars are built with different purposes.

So all of a sudden the M3 is not hard-core? Read the comparisons M4 vs. RC F, and the M4 is the track car or hard-core one, and the RC F is the better balanced luxury comfort performance car.

See it this way,

Track: RC F < M4 < GT350
DD: GT350 < M4 < RC F.

Then again some don't have an issue with hard-core DD car. And very few M and F go on track.

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by Levi

You don't get it? Because in general German cars are simply better than other cars. But this overconfidence in German cars often makes us miss some other just as good if not better alternatives. And as some can't understand that, that is it also possible that non-German cars are good, this happens.

So all of a sudden the M3 is not hard-core? Read the comparisons M4 vs. RC F, and the M4 is the track car or hard-core one, and the RC F is the better balanced luxury comfort performance car.

See it this way,

Track: RC F < M4 < GT350
DD: GT350 < M4 < RC F.

Then again some don't have an issue with hard-core DD car. And very few M and F go on track.

To your first point, I get why people like to compare against the German carmakers. My comment was specific to the relatively large amount of posts dedicated to comparing the gt350/ats-v/hellcat to German carmakers. A few posts for comparison's sake and get over it.

To your second point, I find your comments somewhat ignorant. How can you even rank the gt350 when it hasn't even been test driven. A car's performance does not usually correlate to a few specs but rather to the car being greater than the sum of all parts. Also, "very few M and F cars go on track", can you please source this?

[fcman]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

To your second point, I find your comments somewhat ignorant. How can you even rank the gt350 when it hasn't even been test driven. A car's performance does not usually correlate to a few specs but rather to the car being greater than the sum of all parts. Also, "very few M and F cars go on track", can you please source this?

I would be very surprised if the GT350 was not at least on par with the M4. the GT500 was slightly faster around VIR than the M4 and the old 2011 Boss 302 wasn't far behind despite being down 60hp compared to the GT350. I would expect the GT350 to be a bit faster around the track than the GT500. The Z/28 was nearly 10 seconds faster than the M4 and I assume Ford is shooting for similar performance.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

To your first point, I get why people like to compare against the German carmakers. My comment was specific to the relatively large amount of posts dedicated to comparing the gt350/ats-v/hellcat to German carmakers. A few posts for comparison's sake and get over it.

To your second point, I find your comments somewhat ignorant. How can you even rank the gt350 when it hasn't even been test driven. A car's performance does not usually correlate to a few specs but rather to the car being greater than the sum of all parts. Also, "very few M and F cars go on track", can you please source this?

I ranked the GT350 the same way F80Post ranked the M4 over the RC F just by looking at RC F weight, before any test drives. Same way.


My "source" is my local track where cars are mostly Porsche, Lotus, Renault R.S., some exotics (R8, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati) and a few M3 (E36, E46).

[Fahrvergnügen]

Originally Posted by Levi

I ranked the GT350 the same way F80Post ranked the M4 over the RC F just by looking at RC F weight, before any test drives. Same way.


My "source" is my local track where cars are mostly Porsche, Lotus, Renault R.S., some exotics (R8, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati) and a few M3 (E36, E46).

Which track is this? Is it in CZ?

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

Which track is this? Is it in CZ?

No, I'm only temporarily in CZ. The track is in France where I live. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anneau_du_Rhin

[BlueCoyote]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

Very well said.

I would also add, in line to my earlier point, that there are a lot more topics to talk about on this forum regarding the gt350 other than comparing it to other cars / benchmarks. Just seems like 6 pages of bashing other cars

I'm not seeing the "6 pages of bashing other cars" here. Looking through the posts, I don't really see any posts that present pure, unsolicited "bashing" of the new M3/M4. If there are, perhaps you can point them out. Are there a few comparisons to BMW's sure--this is a BMW forum, what do you expect? BMW's will present a natural point of reference to many performance cars in their general price range.

Additionally, BMW M cars have a long-standing reputation of being a pure, enthusiast driver's car because of their great steering feel, handling characteristics, and high-revving naturally aspirated engines. Some of that has changed lately (most notably the NA engine part). Some people are embracing the turbo engine and some lament it. When so many car manufacturers are moving towards forced induction it's refreshing to many people to see a new car introduced with a high-revving NA V8. The stated goal of this car is to be pure driving bliss--a driver's car with great handling characteristics and an intoxicating screamer of an engine--qualities that will no doubt appeal to longtime M fans. There's nothing wrong with giving props were props are due.

It's hard to give direct praise to a car that hasn't been released to the general public and that no one outside of FoMoCo has actually driven. The facts on a sheet of paper, as promising as they are, are all anyone one of us has to go on.

Lastly, having respect for a car with an 8000+ rpm redline, 295/305 width tires, two-piece 15.5" Brembo brakes, and world class suspension designed to dominate on a road course hardly makes me a cowboy.

[MikeyV]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

I'm having a strong hunch that the buyer more concerned with the driving experience will opt for the GT350. The buyer wanting a superior blend of performance and luxury will opt for the more practical F8X.

An F8X luxury it's got the cheapest interior of any current BMW, nasty hard plstics, ill fitting dash's, the only worse interiors BMW deliver are badged MINI.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

An F8X luxury it's got the cheapest interior of any current BMW, nasty hard plstics, ill fitting dash's, the only worse interiors BMW deliver are badged MINI.

One, I made a relative comparison. Two, you just might be exaggerating. Just a little.

/s

[Malibu1]

I just read that ford also has a GT350R for 2015. So the GT350 is not the full track addition. Sounds like the R has more power, even bigger brakes, aero and more tire.

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by MikeyV

An F8X luxury it's got the cheapest interior of any current BMW, nasty hard plstics, ill fitting dash's, the only worse interiors BMW deliver are badged MINI.

I actually like the interior of the new minis. Its quite nice.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by BlueCoyote

I'm not seeing the "6 pages of bashing other cars" here. Looking through the posts, I don't really see any posts that present pure, unsolicited "bashing" of the new M3/M4. If there are, perhaps you can point them out. Are there a few comparisons to BMW's sure--this is a BMW forum, what do you expect? BMW's will present a natural point of reference to many performance cars in their general price range.

Additionally, BMW M cars have a long-standing reputation of being a pure, enthusiast driver's car because of their great steering feel, handling characteristics, and high-revving naturally aspirated engines. Some of that has changed lately (most notably the NA engine part). Some people are embracing the turbo engine and some lament it. When so many car manufacturers are moving towards forced induction it's refreshing to many people to see a new car introduced with a high-revving NA V8. The stated goal of this car is to be pure driving bliss--a driver's car with great handling characteristics and an intoxicating screamer of an engine--qualities that will no doubt appeal to longtime M fans. There's nothing wrong with giving props were props are due.

It's hard to give direct praise to a car that hasn't been released to the general public and that no one outside of FoMoCo has actually driven. The facts on a sheet of paper, as promising as they are, are all anyone one of us has to go on.

Lastly, having respect for a car with an 8000+ rpm redline, 295/305 width tires, two-piece 15.5" Brembo brakes, and world class suspension designed to dominate on a road course hardly makes me a cowboy.

This, this, this.

[Delnari]

Just seen an unofficial price announcement of the new G.T. 350 being $52,995. Given the standard options and powertrain this looks to be another winner for Ford. An optional Tech Package will be offered for an additional $2995 for power seats, upgraded stereo and navigation.

[Vigilante375]

There is already thread on this but they are suppose to be launching a Track Pack option too and then a GT350R version, that should a more true rival to the Z/28....

[Yeineken]

Can honestly say this is the first mustang i've liked the looks of since the 60's Mustangs. Only took 50 years.

[Delnari]

Given the starting price of $52,995 for the G.T. 350 makes it price competitive to all European/Asian sports cars. Go U.S.A.!!

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by Malibu1

I just read that ford also has a GT350R for 2015. So the GT350 is not the full track addition. Sounds like the R has more power, even bigger brakes, aero and more tire.

Yes, GT350R will be true Z/28 competitor.

[ShocknAwe]

Hell of a lot of car for $55,000

[ragingclue]

Shit man that's pretty cheap. First round of reviews should be interesting.

[Mavus]

sick sick sick deal

Ford just crapped all over many performance cars

[CirrusSR22]

That's just the base GT350 too. The GT350R will reportedly be unveiled in January at the NAIAS.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/futur...-gt350r-raptor

A more exciting unveil might be a new generation Ford GT.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

A more exciting unveil might be a new generation Ford GT.

That's what I'm looking forward to the most. I hope it's as great as it should be.