[Soterios]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Never price out a Jeep Wrangler... or a BMW... or a Porsche... or any other car with options.

I have. The difference is typically a lot more significant.

[Steeler]

Never.....I like the visceral sound of an ICE.
Damn, I don't even like paddle shifters, love rowing my own gears.
Old skool all the way.

[rak299]

If I am going somewhere, I prefer to drive until I get there. If I need to get gas on the way, it takes 10 minutes including getting off and on the highway. Last year, I drove somewhere 600 miles away; the year before it was over 700. Other trips have been longer. I'll switch when a recharge is as fast.

[FinalRenegade]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I'm sure there will be better EVs coming out. The Mustang MachE is interesting, however the Taycan? It's over $100k where a brand new model 3 starts at like $35k, even the Model S starts at just under $70k with like double the range and slightly lower 0-60 than the base $100k Taycan. The Hyundai is a hybrid and the Bolt and Leaf... well just look at them, you also can't compare the speed, technology or charging network between the two. That being said the Bolt is probably the closest competitor to a Model 3 right now IMO. If my mom wanted an EV I would tell her to get a Bolt.

For me if buying new right now the Model 3 is cheaper, faster, better looking (subjective) has better tech and a better charge network behind it than the Bolt. Sorry, but people don't just put up with the actual issues Tesla has because they are all fanbois. They do it because when you compare everything they are IMO the best EVs out there right now for the $$ EVEN with their flaws.

Also Tesla made EVs "cool". I mean who the fuck wants a freaking Leaf or a Prius or that weird Honda thing that probably like 5 people bought, 4 of whom probably lived in a tree. EVs were reserved for tree hugging hippies. Tesla turned that shit around and made it to where normal people wanted a Tesla. Now that they have done the hard part all the other big boys want to jump on the bandwagon and to be honest.... I don't know why they haven't already eaten Teslas lunch.

On the flip side I think Tesla has been super focused on the battery tech, their supercharger network and their software, while ignoring many of the CAR issues such as the build quality, customer service, service center experience etc. I think this has put them way ahead of the big boys when it comes to range and tech, but as soon as they catch up I think Tesla could be in trouble. But WTF do I know.

I think the quality and the design turns me off, the range is not even that reliable especially with the time to charge and the availability of the super-charger stations. If I'm going on long trips, I'd go with the good ol combustion engine until we've established a more robust network.

Tesla may have made EVs cool, now the Europeans will make it sexy, the new Audi E-tron GT for instance, my goodness.
The I4 concept, stunner.
Porsche Taycan, performance and prestige.
Maybe Tesla's new models will look cooler, but again, I will not trust their quality until they'be been in the car game for much much longer.

[G80indy]

If they repackaged or reengineered the 3 dual motor performance for better looks and range..... I'd consider
But those are big ifs

[AtoB58]

When I have my own home, I think I would seriously consider a Tesla. It would be sweet to be able to charge up at home and run errands with instant torque.

[smrtypants44]

I'm not against Tesla, I'd love to have one but they don't make a vehicle I want/can afford. When they come out with a competitor to my f32 that isn't ugly like the model 3 I'd consider it.

[eff32fl]

I'll buy a Tesla when they have combustible engines lol

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by eff32fl

I'll buy a Tesla when they have combustible engines lol

Right now only the battery is combustible

[StatenEye]

Originally Posted by mousefarmer

When would any of you buy a Tesla? What needs to happen for that to happen?

For me its when the price goes down and the weight of the vehicle goes down to be similar to gas cars. I have no brand loyalty for any brand.

Would go with a diff brand when i go electric. Something better lookin with better build quality. They look horrible.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by 330indy

If they repackaged or reengineered the 3 dual motor performance for better looks and range..... I'd consider
But those are big ifs

Better rage? There is no comparable vehicle with more range.

[chassis]

Not sure I will ever buy a Tesla. I don't like the style/appearance and the reviews on quality and interior amenities turn me off. Tesla needs to offer a competitive all around product, not just a device with which to save the world.

For me to buy a battery electric vehicle, it needs to have 500 mile range for 10 years of ownership on the factory original battery, and charge time from 5% to 100% (500 miles worth of charge) needs to happen in 5 minutes. The preceding requirements need to occur with a vehicle that delivers, or exceeds, all of the other functionality of a petrol BMW or Mercedes in the comparable vehicle class. For example, X3, X5, GLC or GLE.

Gasoline is energy dense and battery technology companies know this. Battery range and life (avoidance of degradation) is one of the biggest challenges for BEVs.

I will not buy a vehicle that has the battery experience of an iPhone or macbook air, if I have a petrol vehicle alternative.

[zx10guy]

Something that hasn't been discussed is the options available for those with ICE vehicles with respect to getting parts, DIY, and repair shops. Good luck with those when you get into a Tesla.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Something that hasn't been discussed is the options available for those with ICE vehicles with respect to getting parts, DIY, and repair shops. Good luck with those when you get into a Tesla.

Exactly. For Tesla to get my business, the first thing to be done is to remove the powerplant and battery. Then do a comparison:

Features
Options
Quality of materials
Comfort (subjective)
Appearance (subjective)
Initial vehicle quality (free from defects upon delivery)
Reliability and durability (free from major failures for 10 years/200,000 miles)
4 years / 50,000 miles new car bumper to bumper warranty fully transferrable to subsequent owners

Then put the electric powerplant and battery back in the vehicle and do another comparison:

Range: 500 miles from a full charge, with no degradation for 10 years/200,000 miles on the factory original battery
Fueling: 5 minutes total time from 5% charge to 100% fully charged with no restriction or caveat, for the base vehicle model
Performance: equal to or better 0-60, top speed and handling vs petrol competitors
Ride and NVH: equal to or better than petrol competitors

Tesla is a long way from offering a fully equivalent total vehicle package.

This is similar to the film vs. digital debate in photography. It is only in the past few years (5 or so) that digital processing is able to truly equal the (subjective) aesthetics that everyone knows and agrees film offers.

BEVs will get there. I think 10 years from now is an early estimate of when they offer a fully equivalent or better package. Likely outcome is 20 years. 30 years is a pessimistic estimate.

I will still be buying petrol for 20+ years.

[David70]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Something that hasn't been discussed is the options available for those with ICE vehicles with respect to getting parts, DIY, and repair shops. Good luck with those when you get into a Tesla.

A large benefit is how few system parts there are on an electric. Transmission, emission system, exhaust, fuel system, intake system and all of the sensors that go along with it to run properly - a large part of them don't exist. Lots of negatives to an electric but the long term cost of maintenance and repair isn't one of them in my eyes. The battery is the only thing that concerns me.

As for the aftermarket making replacement parts, if there is a need and a market it will come. That's how the aftermarket works.

[5.M0NSTER]

Originally Posted by David70

A large benefit is how few system parts there are on an electric. Transmission, emission system, exhaust, fuel system, intake system and all of the sensors that go along with it to run properly - a large part of them don't exist. Lots of negatives to an electric but the long term cost of maintenance and repair isn't one of them in my eyes. The battery is the only thing that concerns me.

As for the aftermarket making replacement parts, if there is a need and a market it will come. That's how the aftermarket works.

To be fair though, Electric cars have their share of sensors and components you don’t find in ICE cars. Examples: DC to DC converters, motor resolvers, motor control ECUs, torque sensors, multitude of high voltage sensors and current sensors, shaft speed sensors, etc. and the technology is in its infancy, meaning more frequent failure rates than the old tech.

[larrylarry]

Originally Posted by smrtypants44

I'm not against Tesla, I'd love to have one but they don't make a vehicle I want/can afford. When they come out with a competitor to my f32 that isn't ugly like the model 3 I'd consider it.

I'm in the same boat. Personally I think a model s looks fantastic but its just a little bit out of my price range.

That new 2021 widebody Model S looks fantastic.

[JamesGames]

... when and if there is a similar program to cash for clunkers for the EV transition we seem to be headed towards, I will trade my gas guzzler N62 550i. Definitely seems to be where the automotive industry is headed towards.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by David70

A large benefit is how few system parts there are on an electric. Transmission, emission system, exhaust, fuel system, intake system and all of the sensors that go along with it to run properly - a large part of them don't exist. Lots of negatives to an electric but the long term cost of maintenance and repair isn't one of them in my eyes. The battery is the only thing that concerns me.

As for the aftermarket making replacement parts, if there is a need and a market it will come. That's how the aftermarket works.

Yes, agree. I heard recently from credible source (career auto industry executive) that electric vehicles have something on the order of several dozen percent less cost to produce vs ICE cars. This is due to the above comments, plus the reduction of high cost labor. Autoworkers are among the highest paid hourly employees in the US. It's not right or wrong, just a fact. And businesses need to find ways to reduce their costs, and they will.

To me the business case for BEVs as viewed by automakers is too juicy to ignore.

The battery is technology bottleneck at the moment.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by David70

A large benefit is how few system parts there are on an electric. Transmission, emission system, exhaust, fuel system, intake system and all of the sensors that go along with it to run properly - a large part of them don't exist. Lots of negatives to an electric but the long term cost of maintenance and repair isn't one of them in my eyes. The battery is the only thing that concerns me.

As for the aftermarket making replacement parts, if there is a need and a market it will come. That's how the aftermarket works.

Watch some of the Youtube videos from Rich Rebuilds. You'll see a lot of other things that fail on these cars. The Model S' main screen is actually the DME (BMW speak) of the entire car. There are two known flaws to this screen. The first one is not something that will cause a malfunction but it's annoying. There is some liquid that will start to ooze out of the screen creating a sloppy mess. The only way to fix this is to replace the entire module. The second issue is from the flash memory getting worn out due to all the logging the system is configured by default from the factory. Once the flash memory fails, the car won't operate.

Then there are the other nagging problems with the electric door handles, the gull wing doors, etc, etc.

It seems some parts are obtainable from Tesla and others are not. Rich has to troll salvage yards/auctions for donor cars to get parts to repair customer cars.

And seem to be more reliable in terms of the mechanical simplicity, just hope you don't get into a car wreck with any of these cars. TFL on Youtube went through that very mess trying to get their Model 3 fixed after a minor fender bender and they worked with a Tesla approved body shop. While this situation happened a while ago, based on what I've seen supply chain issues haven't improved much.

[fgpalmer71]

I love Rich....and Rich loves Tesla's! Lol.

The screens have gone through a few iterations. Handles are indeed an issue on the Model S....Tesla replaces them frequently under warranty. Not an issue on the Model 3. I've watched every episode of Rich Rebuilds, guy knows more about Tesla's then Tesla....and again, he loves them. His daughter drives the wrapped Tesla he used to drive. His issues with Tesla are with their business model and not the car. He might not be your best example.

[spucktacular]

THIS IS A BMW FORUM = PEOPLE THAT LIKE DRIVING

By extension, that means getting pleasure from hearing an engine rev through the gears, the shift if you're a manual driver, the exaggerated exhaust if you have a bi-turbo v6/v8... its the pleasure.

I love Tesla and what they stand for, but if you really love cars.. you're probably going to hold off as long as possible, just cause they take away what we love most.. connection to the drive. Maybe that's the point, but I'm not ready quite yet