[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by 10"

Great story! Just to clarify I'm not bored with my car I'm in love with it and plan to keep it forever.

I AM however filled with a giant itch to get a classic car at some point. It will likely be something obscure and French so it will also then be broken often!!! Haha! So your commentary definitely resonates.

That being said the primary plan for me is to make my own current modern car a "classic car" as the years go by. After all these cars are owned by someone originally and my idea is to age with my car. So in 2036 (assuming I am alive lol) my 1M will be 25 years old and definitely a "classic car". My primary point was why people are so afraid to keep a car. In 2019 many people seem to rush out and sell/trade a car the second it passes warranty. EVEN if they love the car—-it's something I don't understand.

Thanks for your post

There are some great cars out there that are simply cost-prohibitive to own. There's a reason why a $200k Mercedes CL65 is now selling for $20k. My buddy owns one of my all-time halo vehicles, a VW Touareg V10 diesel. He also happens to be a VW master tech so he can wrench it himself and has parts readily available at cost. For the layperson to maintain the same vehicle would be nearly cost-prohibitive. Hell, I had a 2010 Audi S4 WITH a warranty and the clutch felt weak from the day I bought it (CPO). I called the dealer out of curiosity to see how much it would cost to replace. The answer? $5,000. That's a truly insane amount of money for a daily driver.

It always comes to a point where the repairs are possible and may not cost exactly as much as a new vehicle over the course of a year but you have to deal with downtime of being without a car (no loaners at an indy shop), the unpredictability of not know when or how expensive the next repair will be, and the cost-benefit of constantly repairing an aging and increasingly obsolete vehicle.

I went through this with my bicycle recently. I was talking to a high school friend (who now works for Cannondale) about bikes and wanting to fix up the bike I rode in high school (middle of the road Giant). It needs a rear hub and a front fork rebuild. His point was that having those items addressed would probably cost me $400 - roughly $350 more than the bike is actually worth. His point was that it makes much more sense to put that $400 toward a much more modern bike. I did just that and I'm thrilled I did so. That same logic applies to cars.

[10"]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

There are some great cars out there that are simply cost-prohibitive to own. There's a reason why a $200k Mercedes CL65 is now selling for $20k. My buddy owns one of my all-time halo vehicles, a VW Touareg V10 diesel. He also happens to be a VW master tech so he can wrench it himself and has parts readily available at cost. For the layperson to maintain the same vehicle would be nearly cost-prohibitive. Hell, I had a 2010 Audi S4 WITH a warranty and the clutch felt weak from the day I bought it (CPO). I called the dealer out of curiosity to see how much it would cost to replace. The answer? $5,000. That's a truly insane amount of money for a daily driver.

It always comes to a point where the repairs are possible and may not cost exactly as much as a new vehicle over the course of a year but you have to deal with downtime of being without a car (no loaners at an indy shop), the unpredictability of not know when or how expensive the next repair will be, and the cost-benefit of constantly repairing an aging and increasingly obsolete vehicle.

I went through this with my bicycle recently. I was talking to a high school friend (who now works for Cannondale) about bikes and wanting to fix up the bike I rode in high school (middle of the road Giant). It needs a rear hub and a front fork rebuild. His point was that having those items addressed would probably cost me $400 - roughly $350 more than the bike is actually worth. His point was that it makes much more sense to put that $400 toward a much more modern bike. I did just that and I'm thrilled I did so. That same logic applies to cars.

It costs money and patience to maintain a car one really loves; no doubt about it.

The way I see it however is that I'd rather spend $3k on brakes for a car I love than spend $3k in payments for a car I don't love.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

There are some great cars out there that are simply cost-prohibitive to own. There's a reason why a $200k Mercedes CL65 is now selling for $20k. My buddy owns one of my all-time halo vehicles, a VW Touareg V10 diesel. He also happens to be a VW master tech so he can wrench it himself and has parts readily available at cost. For the layperson to maintain the same vehicle would be nearly cost-prohibitive. Hell, I had a 2010 Audi S4 WITH a warranty and the clutch felt weak from the day I bought it (CPO). I called the dealer out of curiosity to see how much it would cost to replace. The answer? $5,000. That's a truly insane amount of money for a daily driver.

It always comes to a point where the repairs are possible and may not cost exactly as much as a new vehicle over the course of a year but you have to deal with downtime of being without a car (no loaners at an indy shop), the unpredictability of not know when or how expensive the next repair will be, and the cost-benefit of constantly repairing an aging and increasingly obsolete vehicle.

I went through this with my bicycle recently. I was talking to a high school friend (who now works for Cannondale) about bikes and wanting to fix up the bike I rode in high school (middle of the road Giant). It needs a rear hub and a front fork rebuild. His point was that having those items addressed would probably cost me $400 - roughly $350 more than the bike is actually worth. His point was that it makes much more sense to put that $400 toward a much more modern bike. I did just that and I'm thrilled I did so. That same logic applies to cars.

My E90 found it's 4th deer last year in April. At the age and mileage, my insurance totaled it. I bought it back and paid $1,800 or so out of pocket to repair the body damage. The E90 is my 2,800-mile per month daily driver. I've driven 28,000 miles since it was repaired. So the resurrection has cost me just 6.4 cents per mile. Depreciation on a new $40,000 sport sedan would be 10 times that amount for the same miles driven. Some times it makes sense to keep older, high mileage cars in operating condition. Divide the $1,800 by the total miles on the car and the resurrection cost just less than half a cent per mile.

[spazzyfry123]

Interestingly enough, I'd say that my experience is inverse. I would consider myself to have been much more a "car enthusiast" in the first five or so years of driving than as I sit right now. I'd say the longest I held on to a car was about six months, and this allowed me to experience quite the spectrum of vehicles in the <$20k market AND people. If I wanted a car, I'd find someone else with a title and we'd trade or I'd sell it. I'd tinker with it, get involved in its respective community, and then repeat the process. I've got so many stories, trips, experiences, friendships out of this and had an absolute blast. Granted, this was before the state of Georgia had sales tax on private sales, so it cost me effectively nothing. If it did cost me something, the math generally came out to be fun > expense.

Now, I'm holding on to cars for years. I still love cars with it being very high on my "List of Importance." It's just not at the top anymore. So, now I'm a "lesser" enthusiast, but I'm holding on to the cars. Maybe I've become lazy. Maybe it just doesn't matter as much. Maybe I'll rebound my love. I still have a list of cars I lust for, but I think the next one I get is going to be a perpetual project. I think I'd rather add to the collection than replace.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

My E90 found it's 4th deer last year in April. At the age and mileage, my insurance totaled it. I bought it back and paid $1,800 or so out of pocket to repair the body damage. The E90 is my 2,800-mile per month daily driver. I've driven 28,000 miles since it was repaired. So the resurrection has cost me just 6.4 cents per mile. Depreciation on a new $40,000 sport sedan would be 10 times that amount for the same miles driven. Some times it makes sense to keep older, high mileage cars in operating condition. Divide the $1,800 by the total miles on the car and the resurrection cost just less than half a cent per mile.

Did you buy the car new, originally? How much did you pay to buy it back from the insurance company?

[DPelletier]

Originally Posted by 10"

I concede there are "enthusiasts" like this who just keep cars and never drive them. I find stories like that to be more on the sad side. I try to stay in the moment and live in the moment. Your friend (RIP) never even sat in a car he owned!!?? That's so impossible for me to even contemplate.

There were sad things in his life but his car collection wasn't one of them; he spent untold hours collecting cars and related memorabilia and it brought him true joy. While it isn't how you (or I, to be honest) would chose to enjoy the hobby, it's what worked for him.

Even if he didn't drive half his cars, he still had more to drive than most of us ever will. I can understand why he didn't drive some of them like his one of five 1965 Cobra Dragonsnake cars or his several one of one factory showcars.....they are extremely rare pces of history.

Cheers,
Dave

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

Did you buy the car new, originally? How much did you pay to buy it back from the insurance company?

Yup, bought it new in 2006. Ordered it in fact. The car was valued at $4,200 and the salvage price was just $450. The car had 350,000 miles on it at the time. The high mileage worked to my advantage. The repair was $5,600. In round numbers. I was smart about it and used my insurer's approved body shop, which was BMW certified also. The claims adjuster at the body shop recognized how great shape the car was in. Better even, my state does not require a salvaged title either. Win win all the way around.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

First I don't think jumping from car to car is "unbecoming," but everyone has their opinion.

As a lifelong automotive enthusiast (far before I could even reach the pedals, never mind buy a car), I've been asked "what's your favorite car?" My go-to answer has always been "the next one." I say this half in jest, but I admire the technology advancement of the new.

My other issue is one I'm in now... I absolutely adore my FBO 335i, but I drive 30k miles a year. Four years and I'm well over 100k miles. I'm not interested in driving a car a quarter million miles every 10 years. I usually like to sell them before 85k miles. I just haven't found a replacement yet.

[Flacht3]

Man what a thread.

IMO it's not right or wrong to jump from one car to another. It depends why and what's fueling your motivation.

If you're doing it because you feel like you need the latest and greatest every few years and that new infotainment system is going to transform your life or you just want to be in the new G-series M3 because only losers drive the last gen M3 then yea you're probably jumping for the wrong reasons and a bit of a moron. But it's your choice and right to be that moron and make those moves.

If you dream of various cars and it's been a long-standing goal to own various models for various lengths of time, or maybe you realize that different cars are better suited to your needs, maybe you're upgrading as you progress through life financially, etc. then why would you ever judge someone for wanting to move on and progress down the path as goals/life changes etc. come to fruition?

The first "dream" car I bought myself was a 2006 WRX. Kept it for 6 years but barely drove it the majority of those years as the car was at "home" with my parents after I moved to NYC. I would drive it on some weekends and holidays. Eventually I got a place in life where I wanted a different car from a comfort/life stage perspective and jumped into an Audi S5. It was kind of a boring drive compared to the WRX but I still appreciated its more "mature" presence and I never once regretted getting rid of the WRX. But 2 years into ownership I sold the S5 for an M4 because I wanted to reclaim some of that fun and because an M4 (well, M3, but tomato tomahto) was one of those "aspirational" dream cars on my list as a kid. 2 years of ownership, I sold the M4 because I wanted something to really push the performance and ownership envelope and was in a position to buy a brand new GT3...but the M4 is what elevated my love for owning these cars and made me want something more and made me willing to spend the money in the GT3.

By your original post, I would be someone who jumps around from car to car (technically that's 4 cars across 6 years starting from the day I dropped the WRX for the S5). But it's part of the journey and passion for driving that's fueled my desire to keep upgrading and find different cars that fit my needs (err really "wants", no one "needs" a GT3).

I'll be keeping the GT3 for 5 years. Already have a deposit on a 992.2 RS that will replace her unless I make the financial decision to try and keep both 5 years down the road, which isn't completely off the table but not very likely.

I love the GT3 more than I loved any of the others; hell even more than them all combined. I spent months hunting down an allocation, it's the only car I specced myself, did Performance Center delivery and brought my Dad. But I also know that in 5 years I'll be ready for the next level of performance and at the end of the day it's just a car. The passion will continue, with the next car.

Also, if/when I have kids, they'd have to pry a Porsche from my cold dead hands before it's something I would hand off to them.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

First I don't think jumping from car to car is "unbecoming," but everyone has their opinion.

As a lifelong automotive enthusiast (far before I could even reach the pedals, never mind buy a car), I've been asked "what's your favorite car?" My go-to answer has always been "the next one." I say this half in jest, but I admire the technology advancement of the new.

My other issue is one I'm in now... I absolutely adore my FBO 335i, but I drive 30k miles a year. Four years and I'm well over 100k miles. I'm not interested in driving a car a quarter million miles every 10 years. I usually like to sell them before 85k miles. I just haven't found a replacement yet.

I was building plastic and metal car models probably starting at 6 or 7 years old (probably sniffed too much Testor's glue and paint...); made a whole bunch of hotrods from left over kit parts (or stuff salvaged after the Black Cats did their job...) . Built my first go-cart from a broken frame and McCollough chainsaw engine at 14. Started wrenching with my Dad around that time too. I'd like to stay analog, but unfortunately, enthusiasts don't set market trends...

And I just thought of this... man the money I lost from not saving my Hot Wheels collection

[10"]

Originally Posted by Flacht3

Man what a thread.

IMO it's not right or wrong to jump from one car to another. It depends why and what's fueling your motivation.

If you're doing it because you feel like you need the latest and greatest every few years and that new infotainment system is going to transform your life or you just want to be in the new G-series M3 because only losers drive the last gen M3 then yea you're probably jumping for the wrong reasons and a bit of a moron. But it's your choice and right to be that moron and make those moves.

If you dream of various cars and it's been a long-standing goal to own various models for various lengths of time, or maybe you realize that different cars are better suited to your needs, maybe you're upgrading as you progress through life financially, etc. then why would you ever judge someone for wanting to move on and progress down the path as goals/life changes etc. come to fruition?

The first "dream" car I bought myself was a 2006 WRX. Kept it for 6 years but barely drove it the majority of those years as the car was at "home" with my parents after I moved to NYC. I would drive it on some weekends and holidays. Eventually I got a place in life where I wanted a different car from a comfort/life stage perspective and jumped into an Audi S5. It was kind of a boring drive compared to the WRX but I still appreciated its more "mature" presence and I never once regretted getting rid of the WRX. But 2 years into ownership I sold the S5 for an M4 because I wanted to reclaim some of that fun and because an M4 (well, M3, but tomato tomahto) was one of those "aspirational" dream cars on my list as a kid. 2 years of ownership, I sold the M4 because I wanted something to really push the performance and ownership envelope and was in a position to buy a brand new GT3...but the M4 is what elevated my love for owning these cars and made me want something more and made me willing to spend the money in the GT3.

By your original post, I would be someone who jumps around from car to car (technically that's 4 cars across 6 years starting from the day I dropped the WRX for the S5). But it's part of the journey and passion for driving that's fueled my desire to keep upgrading and find different cars that fit my needs (err really "wants", no one "needs" a GT3).

I'll be keeping the GT3 for 5 years. Already have a deposit on a 992.2 RS that will replace her unless I make the financial decision to try and keep both 5 years down the road, which isn't completely off the table but not very likely.

I love the GT3 more than I loved any of the others; hell even more than them all combined. I spent months hunting down an allocation, it's the only car I specced myself, did Performance Center delivery and brought my Dad. But I also know that in 5 years I'll be ready for the next level of performance and at the end of the day it's just a car. The passion will continue, with the next car.

Also, if/when I have kids, they'd have to pry a Porsche from my cold dead hands before it's something I would hand off to them.

Thanks for your reply. again I can certainly see your upward trajectory here and it's nice you spend a certain amount of time; a good amount of time with your cars. What I don't seem to understand though is what stops you from keeping the GT3? How much do you drive it? Daily? Monthly?

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I've always loved the idea of buying a car and really driving the hell out of it for a long time. It's like building a story, and learning it so well that it becomes an extension of the driver. While 5 years sounds like a long time in "modern' car culture it's not that long of a time. I've had my car now for 5 years and I feel like I'm just getting started.

Clearly you are someone into motor cars and I am certainly not doubting that for a minute; but does trading a great car like a GT3 for a next generation GT3 RS really result in happiness or is it just the adventure of "starting again" that is the pleasure here? Genuine question.

For me personally there are so many other things besides cars that give me happiness that hanging onto a car I love is part of the puzzle I like to keep as a positive part of my life—-when I find one worth hanging on to. You said you love the GT3 more than all the you've ever owned combined; so what stops you from keeping it? You took delivery of it with your father and spec'd it yourself—-is it "just a car"? To me it sounds more like an experience in itself and more of a companion.

[baege]

maybe...just maybe.. the newest of the latest and greatest, the c8 Corvette, has derailed this whole thread

[Soterios]

Originally Posted by baege

maybe...just maybe.. the newest of the latest and greatest, the c8 Corvette, has derailed this whole thread

It's missing a third pedal, otherwise I would seriously consider making a bad decision on a z51 package.

Good lord it's pretty though.

[10"]

Originally Posted by baege

maybe...just maybe.. the newest of the latest and greatest, the c8 Corvette, has derailed this whole thread

LOL!!

Not me. I still would prefer a Lotus Exige to that monstrosity!!! :P

[OkieSnuffBox]

I've had a bunch of different cars and they were not always the "latest and greatest," it's just because I wanted change it up and I can afford it. I've had the following "fun" cars since I turned 16 (37 now), in chronological order but doesn't include other cars/trucks:

'88 300ZX
'88 325is (later S52 swapped, Wilwoods, etc)
'91 318is
'91 325ic (paid $500, broke a rocker arm right after buying it, so I sold the 17" BBS RS I bought for it, traded it for a motor that I turned around and sold for $4000)
'10 MazdaSpeed 3 (purchased new)
'90 Miata (this was my HPDE car for a few years, XIDAs, Wilwoods, RComps, etc)
'13 Mustang GT Track Pack (purchased new, now they call it the performance pack)
'06 Miata
'15 BRZ (purchased new)
'13 135i (which bone-stock at 33.9k miles started making rod knock noises, so it got traded 3 weeks ago for a)
'18 Mazda 3 (used)

I really like the 135i, but being that it was my only car and I don't have all my tools anymore, trying to buy a used engine and swap it in, in my garage wasn't going to make sense. Neither did paying my mechanic $6-7k to put in a USED engine. So it's gone.


At this point, I'm just going to drive the Mazda 3 for a while and see what happens after a year of the Zupra being out, the new 'Vette (may buy C7 or C6 if the values tank hard enough), there is supposed to be a new STi coming out next, as well as a new BRZ the next year or two, there is the new Miata with the stronger engine and some interesting tuning packages to add to them.

There are a lot of cool options, both new and used. So I guess because I've had many cars, built swap cars, built track cars, and like to own different interesting and/or fun cars, I'm not a "real enthusiast."

Great use of the "Not a True Scotsman" logically fallacy.


Oh this also ignores I used to track my R6 right out of college.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Run Silent

LOL - Re-read your comment and you will see you are exactly what everyone is laughing about.

I go to the beach all the time, including Hawaii, where I rented a Camaro convertible. My wife, myself, and our daughter managed just fine to put all of our things in there. Same for going to the beach in FL. Never had the need for anything larger than the MINI.

Beach chairs, umbrella, bulky stroller? Good grief man. Perhaps we should get you a butler and personal outdoors aircon unit as well?

It's the beach, man! LOL!

Grab a blanket or two, carry the kiddos, sit on the dirt.


Is this you?







Kidding of course, do what ever you want - but it isn't a need for an SUV, it's a want.

I can actually relate to this after my last vacation.

I have my 1LE as my daily , but was taking a trip to the snow.

I rented a 4X4 SUV and called it good.

If you only need the utility of a specialty vehicle for occasional use, then it's much better to get something you want to daily drive (for me it's sports cars) and just rent something for those occasional special needs trips.

I see an C8 Vette in my future.

[10"]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I've had a bunch of different cars and they were not always the "latest and greatest," it's just because I wanted change it up and I can afford it. I've had the following "fun" cars since I turned 16 (37 now), in chronological order but doesn't include other cars/trucks:

'88 300ZX
'88 325is (later S52 swapped, Wilwoods, etc)
'91 318is
'91 325ic (paid $500, broke a rocker arm right after buying it, so I sold the 17" BBS RS I bought for it, traded it for a motor that I turned around and sold for $4000)
'10 MazdaSpeed 3 (purchased new)
'90 Miata (this was my HPDE car for a few years, XIDAs, Wilwoods, RComps, etc)
'13 Mustang GT Track Pack (purchased new, now they call it the performance pack)
'06 Miata
'15 BRZ (purchased new)
'13 135i (which bone-stock at 33.9k miles started making rod knock noises, so it got traded 3 weeks ago for a)
'18 Mazda 3 (used)

I really like the 135i, but being that it was my only car and I don't have all my tools anymore, trying to buy a used engine and swap it in, in my garage wasn't going to make sense. Neither did paying my mechanic $6-7k to put in a USED engine. So it's gone.


At this point, I'm just going to drive the Mazda 3 for a while and see what happens after a year of the Zupra being out, the new 'Vette (may buy C7 or C6 if the values tank hard enough), there is supposed to be a new STi coming out next, as well as a new BRZ the next year or two, there is the new Miata with the stronger engine and some interesting tuning packages to add to them.

There are a lot of cool options, both new and used. So I guess because I've had many cars, built swap cars, built track cars, and like to own different interesting and/or fun cars, I'm not a "real enthusiast."

Great use of the "Not a True Scotsman" logically fallacy.


Oh this also ignores I used to track my R6 right out of college.

There is a difference in motive. I'm talking about the shallow pursuit of the "latest and greatest". The people who are scared of committing to owning a car past its warranty. The ones who place orders without driving because the reviews are good. The ones who trade in a car they love just because a new one came out with a facelift.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by 10"

There is a difference in motive. I'm talking about the shallow pursuit of the "latest and greatest". The people who are scared of committing to owning a car past its warranty. The ones who place orders without driving because the reviews are good. The ones who trade in a car they love just because a new one came out with a facelift.

If no one purchased new cars, there wouldn't be used ones for us to purchase.

Kind of like the manual/auto arguments on all car forums, most people don't want a stick shift in their commuter, so manufacturers have responded by offering them less and less.

[RobC2]

Some people, including me, get bored with the same old stuff. It is not easy to change your job or the place you live, so this is one way to get some variety. People enjoy cars in different ways. It's not like you are cheating on your spouse or something.

[EricVR4]

Originally Posted by 10"

There is a difference in motive. I'm talking about the shallow pursuit of the "latest and greatest". The people who are scared of committing to owning a car past its warranty. The ones who place orders without driving because the reviews are good. The ones who trade in a car they love just because a new one came out with a facelift.

That's because cars are WILDLY different in 2019 than they were in 2009, or 1999, 1989, etc. They're infinitely more expensive to fix thanks to all of the tech packed into them. Huge leaps in engine/intercooler/turbo/transmission tech make parts that much more expensive too. I don't think it's an unreasonable thing that people don't want to own an expensive German luxury car out of warranty

[Soterios]

Originally Posted by EricVR4

That's because cars are WILDLY different in 2019 than they were in 2009, or 1999, 1989, etc. They're infinitely more expensive to fix thanks to all of the tech packed into them. Huge leaps in engine/intercooler/turbo/transmission tech make parts that much more expensive too. I don't think it's an unreasonable thing that people don't want to own an expensive German luxury car out of warranty

I think you're confusing his point like I was.

The type of person he's talking about owns the 2018 M3 and buys the 2020 because they upgraded to heated AND vented seats. He's saying that person isn't a car enthusiast. (His argument, not mine)

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by Soterios

I think you're confusing his point like I was.

The type of person he's talking about owns the 2018 M3 and buys the 2020 because they upgraded to heated AND vented seats. He's saying that person isn't a car enthusiast. (His argument, not mine)

That person is an idiot unless that person has so much money that buying a new M3 is like buying a microwave. But than again a person with cash flow like that is not buying M3s and probably had a full timr driver.