[bimmer456]

I wonder if Mercedes AMG will build their cars in China and have the engine builder sign their name in Chinese. How do you define it as a German car if it's made in China? Would you be willing to pay $130k for your M4GTS made in China? But you know it's happening and people will accept it just like they already have with their iPhones and MacBooks. Is an SA or Mexican built BMW German? Yet people are or will buy them.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

I wonder if Mercedes AMG will build their cars in China and have the engine builder sign their name in Chinese.

As of now I read nothing about bmw building M cars in china so your analogy is faulty...
AMG != Mercedes

And Mercedes is already building cars (C&E class) in china fyi in a joint venture called "Beijing Benz".

[///M4ster Yoda]

From BMWBLOG

Speaking to Automotive News off the record, an anonymous source inside Munich claims that there was considerable pressure coming from the Chinese government, which sees it as a great achievement if more European manufacturers are exporting cars from China.

I'm sure BMW knows it's a bad idea but needs to appease the chinese government in order to continue selling a shit ton of cars there.

[Fraggy]

The Chinese need to be reined in, not given more gifts.

[E39hijinks]

As said, it's a non-issue. The factories and equipment are the same stuff you'll see in Germany. The equipment used to assemble the cars is fool proof. You press a button til a buzzer chimes or light comes on. This is the world we live in, get used to your fellow human beings in another part of the world making the stuff you use.

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Everyone sell their iphones and get another chinese made phone lol

THIS.

All the bitching is ridiculous here.

[Flying Ace]

But my South Carolinian built X5 is a lemon. Explain why!

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by Troll_991GT3

Don't believe in BMW propaganda. They are again counting beans.

I have been living as an expat in China for a while now. Bumped into some folks from BMW over the years. Germans. They were all saying that it is extremely hard to keep any standards in a Chinese factory. Many of them just gave up and returned to EU.
If you have ever dealt with that nation you know what I mean. It's just everywhere. Disaster in any level.
Few exmaples:
Mercedes. Back in 2010 they were selling both made in Germany and just started selling models being built in CN. Second hand imported more expensive than from the local market. That should give you an idea.

Airbus. Factory in Tianjin. They are still unable to reach required quality and are not producing A320 as they were supposed to. Putting some components together. And we are talking here aviation.
It sits deep in their minds that you have to take shortcuts. It's culture, comes from political system as well. Fight the rules, take shortcuts and don't give a rant about what happens next.
They are improving big time I have to say but they are still in a stone age with their minds.

You have a very good point. And I agree 100%. It's about finding that right balance between labor cost and quality. That's why so many things are made in China.

However, T]there is so much misperceptions in this thread otherwise, I don't even know where to start. Most of you don't even know how the auto industry works in China. And don't confuse domestic Chinese company cars built in china with foreign branded cars built in China.

Foreign branded cars built in China comes with various levels of partnership/integration with the Chinese manufacturer. Basically, the Chinese government won't allow any foreign car company to open up a plant in China. They MUST partner with the local manufacturer. (I'm cynical due to this reason, but it's so they can basically transfer intellectual property rights in terms of industrial and mechanical engineering. Koreans have been doing this for decades with the Japanese, but that's another story).

With this fact set, BMW still sets the quality standard. Let me repeat that again in case you're still in a tizzy about Chinese built BMWs. BMW SETS THE STANDARD. So if US/Euro customers require a certain quality, they will have to build to that quality. Whether it's Chinese sweat and robots bolting that part on should be irrelevant. Same applies to their Chinese parts suppliers too.


China gets a bad rep for making low quality consumer goods. China is not to blame. YOU, the consumer is to blame. YOU'RE to blame for accepting the quality pushed on you by your American retailer/brander. YOU'RE to blame for having your American engineer and bean counter dictate a low-quality build. A quality Chinese made product can be had if YOUR retailer/brand demands that and ensures certain manufacturing standards are met. Just look at Apple and Lenovo for example, premium brands/products at premium prices.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by jackaleyess

Yes Chinese is a race and it is everywhere. US has the most numbers of Overseas Chinese after Malaysia where I am from. Chinese created first paper money so that u guys can have notes instead of syilings. Chinese created gun powder so that u whites can kill ur enemy with it, and Chinese created compass so that u can find ur way bak home when u are drunk.

Maybe in your country. But in the US, "Chinese" is not a race in a legal context. Asian is a race.

So to test this "racist" theory, if this story said BMW will be built by Japanese, or Taiwanese or Singaporeans, would people be so upset? What if the car is built by people of "Chinese decent" in Australia? lol.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

And don't confuse domestic Chinese company cars built in china with foreign branded cars built in China.

Nio EP9 is a chinese car run by a chinese company with a chinese man at the top...(you know, that car that set the new nordschleife record)
Basically there are 2 types of companies. One that competes on cost and one that competes on quality.
What we regard as 'stuff from china' competes on cost very much and that's usually inversely proportional to the quality (and vice versa).
A $200k car coming from china is probably going to be a very good car regardless if its from a western or chinese company.
A $8k car not.

The way why average chinese workers are bad is because they are cheap. Uneducated. Pulled from the land.
If you take schooled chinese personell, they perform equal or better than western schooled personell. (asians in general excell in science disciplines compared to westerners)
I know chinese guys with college degrees in my field of work and they are excellent. They make a lot of money so they're definately not cheap workers.
The point is that western companies go to china because of the cheap labor. That means automatically uneducated workers.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Troll_991GT3

BMW needs to cooperate with other Chinese suppliers. They in turn cooperate with further suppliers for their production line.

Why would bmw need to cooperate with other chinese suppliers?
BMW's are already filled with chinese parts, like almost any car. Like I wrote: All major OEMS (mostly german based companies) have multiple factories in china.
BMW will continue to use those parts. But it'll save on shipping costs

[IvanLZ]

People love to judge without having any knowledge. BMW supervises quality coming out of China and if it wasn't up to level they wouldn't even consider selling it to other countries. I've been to China before and manufacturing of cars has improved a lot since the last time i remember. Hell it's even better than what americans are making right now and i don't see people complaining about their american brands. China is growing at an unbelievable speed and take my word they will eventually surpass everyone.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by IvanLZ

People love to judge without having any knowledge. BMW supervises quality coming out of China and if it wasn't up to level they wouldn't even consider selling it to other countries. I've been to China before and manufacturing of cars has improved a lot since the last time i remember. Hell it's even better than what americans are making right now and i don't see people complaining about their american brands. China is growing at an unbelievable speed and take my word they will eventually surpass everyone.

It's easy to grow when the environment is of no concern and you have unlimited "slave" labor

[IvanLZ]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

It's easy to grow when the environment is of no concern and you have unlimited "slave" labor

Chinese government has put more emphasis into improving the enviroment state in China. Is it good now? No but they are improving little by little. Why do you define it "slave" labor? Just because you think their income is garbage doesn't mean they think the same. A lot of chinese are very proud of what they get.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by IvanLZ

Chinese government has put more emphasis into improving the enviroment state in China. Is it good now? No but they are improving little by little. Why do you define it "slave" labor? Just because you think their income is garbage doesn't mean they think the same. A lot of chinese are very proud of what they get.

Ignorance is bliss as the saying goes

[backagain]

Looks like someone can't wait. Check out the Chinese joint venture badge on the left of the trunk of this F80.

[pz619]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

It's easy to grow when the environment is of no concern and you have unlimited "slave" labor

Well in fairness, they seem to care more about the environment than the US does at the moment.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

snowflakes are out in droves as of late

Snowflakes? In a thread about having your pwecious wittle BMW assembled in a special corner of the world? You don't say...

[Sassicaia]

Never. Part of the premium I pay for is the fact its a german built car. If they are going to market with a Chinese product I expect it to be 30-40% less money.

[Eriphill]

Originally Posted by pz619

Well in fairness, they seem to care more about the environment than the US does at the moment.

China signed on to a non binding agreement that allows them to pollute as much as they want for the next 13 years. Not exactly a shining example of environmentalism.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Eriphill

China signed on to a non binding agreement that allows them to pollute as much as they want for the next 13 years. Not exactly a shining example of environmentalism.

Exactly. Sometimes I'm still amazed at how little people really know about what's happening out there in the REAL world.

[surewin]

I'm Chinese and I don't want this!