[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Oh, well I don't know about others but I haven't expensed any hate. I do loathe electrics with a passion and think anyone dumb enough to buy one gets what they deserve, but I didn't put that in any of my previous posts. Just the facts.

Too bad
Your carbon footprint is greater that at least 10 people combined
Just the facts

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

Too bad
Your carbon footprint is greater that at least 10 people combined
Just the facts

And? Is it climate change or global warming this week? Pure hoax either way. Did you donate to Al Gore's personal bank account too by paying for carbon credits? How do you think he became a billionaire? It's a sham run by former members of communist parties and socialist liberals who use it to beat up on capitalism and push for global wealth redistribution. A cow's carbon footprint is bigger than mine. Should I stopened eating burgers and feeding my kid milk? Just the facts too.
http://www.breitbart.com/california/...limate-change/
http://mobile.wnd.com/2007/03/40445/

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

And? Is it climate change or global warming this week? Pure hoax either way. Did you donate to Al Gore's personal bank account too by paying for carbon credits? How do you think he became a billionaire? It's a sham run by former members of communist parties and socialist liberals who use it to beat up on capitalism and push for global wealth redistribution. A cow's carbon footprint is bigger than mine. Should I stopened eating burgers and feeding my kid milk? Just the facts too.
http://www.breitbart.com/california/...limate-change/
http://mobile.wnd.com/2007/03/40445/

Nope, when i donate, that's not the direction i go with, nor willing to discuss it here
I did move closer to my job, however, so my commute reduced from 50 miles to 5
I value my time a bit differently, than just spending it in the car for hours

Global warming aside
How about supporting middle east?
How about nasty smog in metropolitan areas?
You cant breathe there
But hey, hate electrics all you want, luckily that won't change much

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

Nope, when i donate, that's not the direction i go with, nor willing to discuss it here
I did move closer to my job, however, so my commute reduced from 50 miles to 5
I value my time a bit differently, than just spending it in the car for hours

My job is covering a region. It's not going to one location. I'm actually centered in my job. I cover Florida. I live in an Orlando suburb. I am as "close" to my job as I can be.

[AndreyATC]

That's very unfortunate your day consists of so much being on the road
That takes a lot of perseverance and patience
I can only imagine how much you pay for gas monthly or job pays?

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

That's very unfortunate your day consists of so much being on the road
That takes a lot of perseverance and patience
I can only imagine how much you pay for gas monthly or job pays?

Actually I love it. Get to drive somewhere new every day. Little traffic. Beautiful tropical landscape. Depending on the firm I've worked for typically you get 58 cents per mile. Same as government reimbursement.

[DATM3]

I am actually trying to sell my F13 M6 for a P85D. I don't understand all the hate and arguments here. The real fan boy's are the ones that are not open to new ideas and stay in the narrow mindset. Innovation is always killed by naysayers and those that bash on things they have probably never tried. Everything is not for everyone, but don't hate on something you have not given a chance. For my situation, I think it would be fun to give the P85D a shot. Fundguy1, do you really believe the things on breitbart.com are fact? Oh that's right, its on the internet "it must be true".

[Fundguy1]

Actually yes I do. Way more than CNN. That said I can pull that from 100 different locations. Fact is fact. As for dropping an M6 for a tesla, really? And it's not "innovative". It's different. Innovative implies superior. Except for 0-50 it's not. Finally, there's no hate. It's your car. Do whatever floats your boat. The real hate here is people who try to assume a logical argument against what they like is based in hate, not fact or preference. I don't hate on you. I don't hate on electrics. I only point out how worthless they are currently. Make one that can take a corner, recharges in 5 min within 2 miles of any location I go, has a range of 400+ miles, has acceleration rivaling combustion engines at speeds over 60 mph, doesn't iverheat, and doesn't use batteries that create some of the worst toxic waste known to man, and is prce competitive, and I'll consider one.

[Fundguy1]

So please stop the "hate" bs. Just because someone doesn't share your viewpoint doesn't make it hate. Especially when backing up their arguments with facts and real observations. That's the devisiveness of the left. Maybe actually considering said facts instead of dismissing them as hate would actually be productive for you and others. Reserve the hate for things like radical islamic fundamentalists who shoot up nightclubs in orlando or behead priests. Reserve hate for people who use politics, the race card, and hate speech for personal gain at the cost of the country. Reserve hate for someone trying to physically hurt you or your loved ones. Not for someone mocking a stupid car.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Actually I love it. Get to drive somewhere new every day. Little traffic. Beautiful tropical landscape. Depending on the firm I've worked for typically you get 58 cents per mile. Same as government reimbursement.

If charging at your destination worked for you, you could turn this into good profit.
Charging is free and you get unlimited mileage power train and battery warranty for 8 years
A lot of cab and limo drivers converting to Tesla for that reason
It's not cheap up front cost, but it pays for itself
Now, if you get decent used one, you're ahead of the game

[DATM3]

I don't know where you got he definition of innovative as superior in all aspects. There are things that it does better and there are things that it does worse at which applies for all cars. For me, it fits my criteria as I commute mostly highway in traffic. The autopilot feature would be useful for the stop and go traffic on the highways. The acceleration would be useful for those red-light situations. I don't know if you have been in a P85D, but you would be amazed at its handling capabilities. You are only going by figures you see on the internet vs spending real time in them. For your situation, it would not be practical but the average commute is less than 13 miles for most people.

I have owned several performance vehicles from several different manufactures, I don't bash any for the products they provide. I will provide pro's and con's after trying them myself instead of reading biased news articles. Anyhow, I just wanted to balance things out a little bit here from someone on the M side.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

has acceleration rivaling combustion engines at speeds over 60 mph, doesn't iverheat, and doesn't use batteries that create some of the worst toxic waste known to man, and is prce competitive, and I'll consider one.

Actually Lithium is naturally found and produced
Batteries from Tesla are recycled and will find it's way in renewable energy storage for solar/wind applications

My car doesnt overheat no matter what i do, but my 335i did
P90D is as fast from 60-120 as M5
And I'm sure it can do better than 7-er or S-class on track if someone desires to do that
However, it's not the main purpose of the car

[Fundguy1]

Agreed but I have way more smiles on my face driving my car than I would an ev. And there aren't charging points. And even if there was, it would take to long.

Hypothetically, if there were charge points that were convenient, which right now there aren't as they only exist at certain hotels or dealers, and if charging took a short time, 5 min or less, I'd probably still not be interested as I don't see any ev offerings that perform the way I want, or come in a hardtop convertible.

[DATM3]

Excuse my use of the word "hate". Let me clarify it as negative remarks without actual first hand experience. I have not said anything divisive as I was just giving you my opinions from someone who loves M cars. My M6 gives me smiles every time I drive it. I just think its time for me to try something new. I might hate it several months down the line or I might love it. However, I am not going to dismiss credit to where its due without actual personal experience.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

Actually Lithium is naturally found and produced
Batteries from Tesla are recycled and will find it's way in renewable energy storage for solar/wind applications

Yes, but the initial creation of them produces huge amounts of heavy metals far more damaging to the environment than carbon emissions. And they need to be created to expand the number of evs on the road. Most "environmentallyconscious" don't take this into consideration as these manufacturing facilities are in places like china, so it doesn't affect them. Out of site, out of mind.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Yes, but the initial creation of them produces huge amounts of heavy metals far more damaging to the environment than carbon emissions. And they need to be created to expand the number of evs on the road. Most "environmentallyconscious" don't take this into consideration as these manufacturing facilities are in places like china, so it doesn't affect them. Out of site, out of mind.

Now, think about what's involved in the entire process of producing gasoline.
Fracking oil, delivering it to refineries, refining it (that's crazy emissions), delivering gas to stations and finally burning it inefficiently through ICE

While EV has some toxic waste only once, oil has to be fracked and gas has to be refined for every gallon you use, every day

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

Now, think about what's involved in the entire process of producing gasoline.
Fracking oil, delivering it to refineries, refining it (that's crazy emissions), delivering gas to stations and finally burning it inefficiently through ICE

While EV has some toxic waste only once, oil has to be fracked and gas has to be refined for every gallon you use, every day

Fracking was only made economically feasible because obama closed federal lands to oil exploration. Once those are reopened, look for sub dollar a gallon gas, energy independence, and fracking a thing of the past.

[OutlawX3M]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

I don't get the hate either. Yes battery tech still needs to advance to really make electric-only cars mainstream. But they really have made huge advances in a short period. Right now you still need a second car for making long distance drives (road trips). It really is the charging times that need to be addressed. I think plug-in hybrids are still the only viable one-car solution. The next step is some lower cost plug-in hybrid performance cars.

Did you ever heard of the Ninety-Ninety rule?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-ninety_rule

It's basically says that 90% of work accounts for the first 90% of the development. The remaining 10% of work accounts for the other 90% of the time.

[yes, that doesn't = 100% and that's the reality of it]

In other words, if you plan for the development time as 10 years, you'll get 90% done in 9 years and the last 10% needs another 9 years. This is mainly thought to be caused by solving the easy/smaller problems to get the project completed to the point that it's useful. There's always going to be some work that isn't "vital" (in the case of EVs, range for example).

You can go to market with 90% and continue developing the last 10% for perfection (so to speak). This last 10% is going to take Tesla as long as the initial 90% effort to get here based on this "rule".

Even then, Tesla is a company that needs to continuously outpace an industry known of playing catch-up. So far so good for them. The Model 3 will be the real test. Can they produce them in quantity with quality?

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/tesla-mod...192710491.html

And this:
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...s-model-3-buzz

"They are going to be producing the Model 3 at a lower cost and they are going to be producing them at a higher volume," he says. "Both of those things add the potential for quality issues, because you can't spend as much money building the car. Each one has to be produced faster and at a lower cost."

Also the Model 3 will negate the tax credit so there goes that!

But mass-producing its new electric vehicles poses another hurdle for Tesla and perhaps a future test of its customers' loyalty: Its sales will eventually bring an end to the $7,500 electric car tax credit that currently accompanies each U.S. purchase, as the credit phases out when a manufacturer sells more than 200,000 electric vehicles in the country....

...Meanwhile, a nationwide survey of 1,091 people conducted by Kelley Blue Book shortly after the debut of the vehicle showed that 41 percent of respondents interested in the Model 3 would lose interest if the $7,500 tax credit disappeared.

[DATM3]

Originally Posted by Outlaw M3

Did you ever heard of the Ninety-Ninety rule?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-ninety_rule

It's basically says that 90% of work accounts for the first 90% of the development. The remaining 10% of work accounts for the other 90% of the time.

[yes, that doesn't = 100% and that's the reality of it]

In other words, if you plan for the development time as 10 years, you'll get 90% done in 9 years and the last 10% needs another 9 years. This is mainly thought to be caused by solving the easy/smaller problems to get the project completed to the point that it's useful. There's always going to be some work that isn't "vital" (in the case of EVs, range for example).

You can go to market with 90% and continue developing the last 10% for perfection (so to speak). This last 10% is going to take Tesla as long as the initial 90% effort to get here based on this "rule".

Even then, Tesla is a company that needs to continuously outpace an industry known of playing catch-up. So far so good for them. The Model 3 will be the real test. Can they produce them in quantity with quality?

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/tesla-mod...192710491.html

And this:
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...s-model-3-buzz

"They are going to be producing the Model 3 at a lower cost and they are going to be producing them at a higher volume," he says. "Both of those things add the potential for quality issues, because you can't spend as much money building the car. Each one has to be produced faster and at a lower cost."

Also the Model 3 will negate the tax credit so there goes that!

But mass-producing its new electric vehicles poses another hurdle for Tesla and perhaps a future test of its customers' loyalty: Its sales will eventually bring an end to the $7,500 electric car tax credit that currently accompanies each U.S. purchase, as the credit phases out when a manufacturer sells more than 200,000 electric vehicles in the country....

...Meanwhile, a nationwide survey of 1,091 people conducted by Kelley Blue Book shortly after the debut of the vehicle showed that 41 percent of respondents interested in the Model 3 would lose interest if the $7,500 tax credit disappeared.

The theory is great and all, but battery technology has been around for a long time. Electric motors have been around for a long time as well. Someone finally decided to disrupt the conventional automobile with it. It only helps the consumer when we have more this kind of market disruption. Its the economies of scale that is the main cost driver at this point. When more manufactures embrace it, we will definitely see price drops.

[Fundguy1]

If, not when. And yes the tech has been around. They actually predate combustion powered cars. This isn't new. New also doesn't mean better.

[OutlawX3M]

Originally Posted by DATM3

The theory is great and all, but battery technology has been around for a long time. Electric motors have been around for a long time as well. Someone finally decided to disrupt the conventional automobile with it. It only helps the consumer when we have more this kind of market disruption. Its the economies of scale that is the main cost driver at this point. When more manufactures embrace it, we will definitely see price drops.

The manufacture of batteries aside, they still need to build vehicles which is the issue I'm stating they may or may not overcome.

As for disrupt, I think the Prius and Toyota beat Tesla to that EV punch IMO. I will say that Tesla's real disruption in the automotive industry isn't that it builds EVs or is run by one of the Paypal Mafia but rather their lack of a traditional dealer network. They sell direct and that's their claim to disruption IMO.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-with-dealers/

I do hope he succeeds on this front. The direct sales model would be a boon for customer experience and single price shopping is making headway (http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...ice-one-person).

[DATM3]

Originally Posted by Outlaw M3

The manufacture of batteries aside, they still need to build vehicles which is the issue I'm stating they may or may not overcome.

As for disrupt, I think the Prius and Toyota beat Tesla to that EV punch IMO. I will say that Tesla's real disruption in the automotive industry isn't that it builds EVs or is run by one of the Paypal Mafia but rather their lack of a traditional dealer network. They sell direct and that's their claim to disruption IMO.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-with-dealers/

I do hope he succeeds on this front. The direct sales model would be a boon for customer experience and single price shopping is making headway (http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...ice-one-person).

No other EV manufacture has a car with that much range using all electric. The technology is the range Tesla batteries provide. My Toyota Prius has like 11 miles range on battery alone under like under 60mph. The Nissan leaf has like 90 mile range. Tesla is also coming out with battery swap stations that take less time to change the battery than to pump gas. If everyone embraces it and it becomes a standard, there could be a full network of battery swap stations incorporated with fuel stations. Things like this takes time and money. The Gigafactory is a good first step. I think once Apple and Google enter the market, the car manufactures will have a run for their money.