[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by P1et

I'm absolutely shocked at these responses. Are the three of you really implying there is something wrong with being educated or getting an education?

Being educated isn't only about learning the skills that will eventually apply to your career. It builds character, gives us knowledge, enables us to discover things we don't know, gives us a different perspective on the world around us. It's helps us create a better society for us and the ones around us.

I am not implying that there is something wrong with being educated, you added that claim. What I am saying is that getting an education by means of going to college is absolutely not the correct option for everyone. Why are you shocked? Do you find it hard to believe that some people have developed a plan for their future success that does not involve college?

Make sure you're arguing the correct point. This thread is titled "College: Is it worth it?" not "Education: Is it worth it?" You can actually be an educated individual without college *gasp*

Originally Posted by P1et

Definitely. There is never anything wrong with getting an education.

Once again, there can be multiple things right and wrong with getting an education. For example, things that can go wrong are: one may study a major (massage therapy) at a college that does not yield them a career that is lucrative enough to pay back their student loans. This phenomenon is usually called "For-Profit Institutions". See below...

Originally Posted by P1et

Again: I said that *any* form of education is valuable.

Devry, Univ. of Phoenix, Kaplan Univ, UEI, UTI, ICDC, 4-D College, etc... I can keep going but there are a plethora of colleges where your statement crash and burns into false land. Paying $30k for an associates degree from these degree factories to have a 'professor' make you watch a video 90% of the semester is not exactly valuable in my eyes.

[schoy]

Originally Posted by Litos

you can't say it is because you didn't go.......

only reason I brought up life lessons in the Marines was because you took the angle of "builds character, gives us knowledge, enables us to discover things we don't know, gives us a different perspective on the world around us"...

college isn't the only entity that will teach you that - military based colleges and the actual military will give you that moreso than 98% of colleges in the country....

He didn't say that college was the only place to build character, give knowledge, discover things or give a different perspective on the world around us. His point was that those attributes, among others, can be gained in college.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by schoy

He didn't say that college was the only place to build character, give knowledge, discover things or give a different perspective on the world around us. His point was that those attributes, among others, can be gained in college.

College is one of many places where you can gain those attributes. It's also one of the most expensive places to gain them, especially when you factor in the opportunity cost of not working, not just the tuition cost itself.

If you get a degree in something practical that pays the bills, then that high cost is worth it.
If you get a degree in something like art history, then that high cost can follow you around for many years, unless you have wealthy parents who pay your way, so you dont graduate under a mountain of debt. Perhaps the opportunity cost is not so bad if rich daddy will give you a down payment on your first house or something. If you are not so lucky, then choosing to gain those attributes in such an expensive way can be a very poor choice. (and thats assuming you gain those attributes at all, which in my observation is not a given)

We went thru a large and complex office move, so a cross-functional team was put together. Among others, we had a person (from marketing, of course) who had a fine arts degree, as well as a person with no formal degree, but had served many years in the Navy. Neither had training or experience with the tasks of an office move, so they should have been equally disadvantaged for the tasks they were asked to assume.

When things started getting hairy, guess who quickly earned a reputation for getting shit done, despite their lack of relevant experience? Sadly, the marketing guy was almost "rewarded" for his uselessness because people stopping going to him for anything, so his load was far less.

Show me someone who insists that formal education is always a good idea, and I'll show you someone who hasnt been paying very close attention.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

Show me someone who insists that formal education is always a good idea, and I'll show you someone who hasnt been paying very close attention.

I'll show you someone...@P1et

[Sedan_Clan]

I agree with those who said that college isn't a necessity, and I don't think it's necessary to instill certain values or attributes in a person (..that's what a good family structure/foundation is for). College also does NOT guarantee that you'll have a really good paying job, but it does improve your chances in certain industries. I know many, many people making more money without a college education (..meaning an undergrad/Master's/Doctorate degree) than I do those who make great money with one. Again, I'm not referring to really specialized jobs that require a degree (..engineer, doctor, etc.).

[M_Six]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I I know many, many people making more money without a college education (..meaning an undergrad/Master's/Doctorate degree) than I do those who make great money with one. .

You and I live in different worlds. I know damn few people w/o a degree who even make what I do. And I don't make a bundle. OTOH, I know tons of people making well into 6 figures because they have a degree. (Again, I'm not one of them.)

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by M_Six

You and I live in different worlds. I know damn few people w/o a degree who even make what I do. And I don't make a bundle. OTOH, I know tons of people making well into 6 figures because they have a degree. (Again, I'm not one of them.)

Yeah, California is, indeed, a different world from the rest of the country. I mean that seriously. The people that I know who are doing well for themselves without a degree (...I'm talking professionals here) make just as much or more money as the average college grad. I know it's anecdotal, but this has been pretty consistent for as long as I've been paying attention. A 6-figure salary doesn't represent the population as a whole. I'm talking in the $50-90k range, and even that is significantly higher than the national income average.

[schoy]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

College is one of many places where you can gain those attributes. It's also one of the most expensive places to gain them, especially when you factor in the opportunity cost of not working, not just the tuition cost itself.

But, gaining those attributes isn't the primary reason for going to college. The primary reason for going to college is to get a degree. Now whether that degree is worth it ... that depends.

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

If you get a degree in something practical that pays the bills, then that high cost is worth it.
If you get a degree in something like art history, then that high cost can follow you around for many years, unless you have wealthy parents who pay your way, so you dont graduate under a mountain of debt. Perhaps the opportunity cost is not so bad if rich daddy will give you a down payment on your first house or something. If you are not so lucky, then choosing to gain those attributes in such an expensive way can be a very poor choice. (and thats assuming you gain those attributes at all, which in my observation is not a given)

I know it's easy to bag on art history majors (cf. Litos' post above). But there are people out there who are really passionate about art and aspire to become, say, Chief Curator of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC one day. And I'm pretty sure that every curator of every art museum of note has at least an undergraduate degree in a relevant field of study. For them, a college degree from, say, Harvard would be worth it, even if it meant that they had a mountain of debt and lived in a studio closet for the next 30 years. What I'm getting at is that not everyone needs money to be happy, and for them, money does not define self-worth. Worth (which ultimately is the point of this whole thread) is relative.

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

We went thru a large and complex office move, so a cross-functional team was put together. Among others, we had a person (from marketing, of course) who had a fine arts degree, as well as a person with no formal degree, but had served many years in the Navy. Neither had training or experience with the tasks of an office move, so they should have been equally disadvantaged for the tasks they were asked to assume.

When things started getting hairy, guess who quickly earned a reputation for getting shit done, despite their lack of relevant experience? Sadly, the marketing guy was almost "rewarded" for his uselessness because people stopping going to him for anything, so his load was far less.

Show me someone who insists that formal education is always a good idea, and I'll show you someone who hasn't been paying very close attention.

No one has said that formal education is always a good idea. But if I came to you and asked whether a particular 18-year-old should go to college, and all you knew about that person was that they were graduating high school and that college was an option, would you say "yes" or "no" (and those were your only two choices; "maybe" or "that depends" is not an option)?

I too can cite, probably with more examples than you can, instances where people who did not go to college were less successful/smart/etc. than their counterparts. I just need to go downstairs and get the names of practically every homeless person on the street.

In fact, I can say, with equal certainty: Show me someone who insists that formal education is never a good idea, and I'll show you someone who hasn't been paying very close attention. See what I did there?

[BMW F22]

Some of you hit it on the head: most companies require a college degree. It's that simple really. To even get in the same pool of candidates when applying for jobs, a degree is often a must. My current work asked me whether I had a degree when setting up an interview.

I agree that college doesn't really teach you everything or even most of the things for you to be successful in life. Looking back, I didn't really learn jack through all my years of schooling. I just knew I had to finish school. Having majored in business in undergrad, the MBA program was a joke (very similar). I still think that a degree opens up more doors. Case in point: my work requires 3 years of working there before getting a promo; but if you have a masters, you only have to be with the company for 1 year. Gives you something to think about.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by schoy

The primary reason for going to college is to get a degree.

This statement almost made my brain explode. I'm gonna get a cup of coffee before I write a dissertation about how much I disagree with this claim...

[vsvahia]

Depends if you want to go to college for education or for girls, drinks, and parties.

[E39M235i]

Higher education works for those who work it like let's say you have a Physics degree from Stanford and you used it only once right after graduation and never needed it another day the rest of your life...Life sucks then you get reincarnated as a Jack Russell oh wait not that please tell me once you reach that higher education of life's valuable lessons you get reincarnated as another human...preferably a test driver for M school...

[E39M235i]

Whoops that was an example of how not to use your higher education...

[Lups]

Hahaha @CuddlyE39 !

To be reborn as a Jack Russell will be my faith probably.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by CuddlyE39

Whoops that was an example of how not to use your higher education...

haha

[Sedan_Clan]

I have learned in life that much of life is about who you know, not what you know.

[Lups]

Just rub it in you fucker...

[FC4]

Originally Posted by P1et

I'm absolutely shocked at these responses. Are the three of you really implying there is something wrong with being educated or getting an education?

Being educated isn't only about learning the skills that will eventually apply to your career. It builds character, gives us knowledge, enables us to discover things we don't know, gives us a different perspective on the world around us. It's helps us create a better society for us and the ones around us.

As I said earlier, there is a reason I can tell if someone went to college or not within 10 seconds of meeting them. Literally. "Don't go to college. It's a waste of time." Said no one successful. Ever.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Litos

again, from my own experience, the Marines taught me a thousand times more life lessons than any stupid ass college would have...

spend 12 weeks getting killed in bootcamp and then stay locked and cocked on a Marine Corps Base for 4 years where timeliness, integrity, tenacity, appearance and honor are at the forefront of your every day life....

wake up late in college as an 18 year old and show up late to a class - who cares, "we're in college ya'll wooohooo - partied sooo hard last night with pizza and weed !!!!"

show up late to a formation in the Marines and you essentially get punished, money taken away from you and are taught that at 18 you're supposed to conduct yourself like a responsible adult, not some civilian trash in college...

p.s.
lol @ art and history majors

LOL. Towards the middle of high school, you can see who is work bound, jail bound, military bound, or college bound. Frankly, I'm glad the differentiation exists, although it's a bit hazy as to who falls in the first three groups. They're all kinda the same.

[2011CrazE89]

Didn't Bill Gates drop out of Harvard to start Microsoft?

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by 2011CrazE89

Didn't Bill Gates drop out of Harvard to start Microsoft?

Hate when people bring those examples up. Just remember that they were the exceptions, not the rule. For every one person that dropped out of college and became successful, there are thousands that dropped out and became homeless (I'm exaggerating a bit here but you get my point).

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by 2011CrazE89

Didn't Bill Gates drop out of Harvard to start Microsoft?

Yes. So did Paul A, and Mark Z.
Michael D dropped out of Texas.