[RedDotRacer]

Just got a Hamilton Jazzmaster day date for Xmas!

[jlspeed29]

+1 for hamilton watches...always wanted one and theyre at a pretty decent price point I feel

whats that jazzmaster go for?

[maxxxboost]

Great thread. I love my Hamilton ETO. For my next watch, id love to get myself a Omega Speedmaster.

When I started to collect watches, I started to look into Tissot, Hamilton, Seiko automatic, Citizen Eco-drive. The brands I listed are pretty affordable and might be what you are looking for.

[stashtrey]

Vintage Hauer chrono. Valjoux. Carrerra

[crzylildude]

Originally Posted by Wrinckled

Hi all, I'm a recent college grad with and got lucky with a nice job. I've started collecting time pieces here and there, but none are really "nice". What sort of watches would you recommend for some high quality affordable watches?

Thank you very much!

Omega Seamaster Diver 300 M Chronograph 41

[Tengocity]

http://www.christopherward.co.uk/

Ch Ward watches may be worth a look. No bling marketing, but solid and reliable Swiss movements, build quality to match the Breitlings, Omegas and Tags, good materials... nothing like the cost.

Tissot and Oris worth a look too.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by tony20009

Earlier someone mentioned disliking Cartier because they used ETA movements. First off, I want to be clear that although I don't currently buy watches with ETA movements, there's nothing wrong with them, especially the 2892 and 2824. Also, unless one either has a lot of money to spend or is content with Seiko, Citizen and/or unknown brands, finding a manufacture watch, which is what I think is your point re: Patek et al, is not an easy thing to do.

That said, most of Cartier's watches use movements from someone else. The Tank for example uses a Piaget movement and as goes watchmaking, Piaget is right up there with Patek, A.L. & Sonne and others, so there's absolutely no basis for poo-pooing Piaget's products. Admittedly, the price would be justified were the movement actually inside a watch bearing the Piaget name, but then ~$20K is the price of entry for a Piaget, so I can see why folks buy Cartier instead. (IWC also use a Piaget movement in at least one of their watches.) It's also worth noting that the Calibre de Cartier watches carry in-house movements. Unfortunately, the most appealing (IMO) of those watches is also the most expensive, starting at a hair shy of ~$50K.

It's also worth noting that when one sells watches costing $15K+ and is a privately held organization, finding good, reliable ways to boost revenues can be tough to do. And if one is a high end brand, such as Cartier or Tiffany, wanting to sell watches it's hardly a good idea to start out by investing the capital to start up an in-house movement production capability. As a result, there's a win-win to be had for makers of truly fine innards, like Piaget, to quietly sell their movements to others.



Red Text:
There really aren't many circles in which a Daytona is humdrum. There may be a few levels of society that feel that way, but they'd be hard to encounter, and nobody in those circles would be so tasteless and rude as to snub someone over their Daytona. FWIW, as driving watches go, the Daytona is the benchmark. So, if one buys one because one actually has an ongoing need for the functionality, it's pretty hard to be looked down at.

On the other hand, if one buys a Daytona, or any other mainstream, regularly produced watch, for bragging rights, one probably should not bother. Bragging rights in the world of horology might be had via a limited edition watch from the very top makers, but even that will only begin to scratch the surface, better to look at having something made for expressly for oneself by a man/woman who makes watches such as A.L. Breguet did for his clients.

Denis Flageollet, Peter Marin, Roger Smith, and others are good folks to enjoin for such a thing. If you would prefer to go with a little know maker, try Keaton Myrick in Oregon or RGM in PA, the latter being able to provide you with an in-house movement as well as custom everything else. Both will almost certainly run you less green than will the guys I mentioned earlier.

I think too its fair to say that Rolex is not a pinnacle maker of fine watches, but what they make -- all of it that's sold under the Rolex brand -- is of sufficiently high quality, and the brand so dominant in the high-end (in terms of quality and craftsmanship and thoughtfulness of design), that it is the bar by which all others are measured: a watch/brand is either above, below or on par with a Rolex. Moreover, to say another high-end watch brand/product on par with Rolex is tantamount to damning it with faint praise.

One knows this is so because folks talk about their XYZ watch, Omega being the most common, that is similar to a corresponding Rolex, they will be certain to point out that it's as good as a Rolex. The watch may very well be as good as a Rolex, in the case of Omega's co-axial movement, it's actually performance wise exactly that, and in terms of the finishing of the movement, it's better. Nonetheless, there's no shortage of Omega owners who'll tell you their watch, a Seamaster perhaps, is as good or better than a Submariner. In contrast, no Rolex owner is even going to make the comparison or even bring up the matter. At best, they'll just grant equivalence and move on to new topics.

Lastly, regarding Rolex, I have plenty of respect for the watches and the brand, and it's certainly deserved in several ways. That Rolex is a marketing master cannot be denied. It's easily the most recognized high-end brand around and has tons of goodwill (accounting sense) as a result. They do indeed make a fine watch. All that aside, what I think of a person wearing one rarely has much to do with their watch. On the few occasions it does, it's largely because I wonder why in God's name is that person wearing a $15K Rolex sport watch with a tux? It would seem to me that if one has $15K to spend on a Rolex, one also can find $50 to buy a suitably thin, elegant dress watch to wear at formal events. It is cases like that that I then begin to wonder if the person is a self-possessed, status seeking, insecure poseur.

Green Text:
I wish more folks thought as you do. I cannot think of one time in my entire life where someone was party to something positive as a result of the brand of watch they wore, the car they drove, or the neighborhood/house in which they lived. I have no difficulty recalling hundreds of occasions where someone got to participate in something because of their wit, intelligence, achievements, or even their God given good looks and other talents.



I think pre-owned watches, like pre-owned cars can be a very good way to go, especially when seeking an pricey piece. In addition to finding a reputable, private party seller, which can be quite difficult and won't yield one any sort of guarantees or warranties, I suggest checking out watch outfits that sell used products. One more or less local to me and who are excellent in all regards is The Little Treasury in Gambrills, MD (http://littletreasury.com/store/swis...d-watches.html) I would, however, suggest that if you are buying used watches, make sure you know everything there is to know about the watch in question. This is the realm of watch buying where it's insanely easy to get taken. There are such good fakes being made these days that it takes a very, very keen eye to tell them apart. Caveat emptor.

I have a friend who's also into watches. Occasionally he'll buy a high end watch and then search high and low for a fake version of it. Then when he's hosting several of us, his "watchie" friends for something at his home, he'll show us both watches and ask us to choose the fake. In some cases, the watches he's displaying are even models one or more of us actually own. Sometimes one or two of us guesses correctly. On one occasion we even fooled him. He stepped away to take a call and we swapped the watches placement. When he told us we guessed right, we said, "Realy," and asked him how he could tell. His answer: because he know which one he sat closest to the end of the table. Then we came clean with our little prank. I won't disclose what brand the watch was, but to say it is one unquestionably above Rolex in the hierarchy of brands. FWIW, Rolex is among the easier brands for which identifying fakes is easier. It's insanely hard, without opening the case or scratching the metal/crystal to tell, and that's especially so if the authentic version doesn't have a clear caseback. This is especially true for fakes made and bought in the PRC where there is absolutely nobody to enforce patent and trademark ownership by non-Chinese companies.


Watchuseek (WUS) will have more moderate and lower price offerings, in general, but certainly all price ranges are represented. Timezone is a bit more high-end, but again, all prices will be represented.

All the best to all.

PS
Watchuseek has a huge section of its forum dedicated to affordable watches (http://forums.watchuseek.com/f71/). It's a great place to explore and learn. You'll find far more "scoop" that's worth finding there than you will here. Timezone is a slightly better forum for folks seeking stuff on the higher end, but the forum design is cumbersome to say the least.

Below are some additional affordable watch options to get you started.

• RGM - They are in Pennsylvania. They have two in-house movements and also offer an assortment of styles featuring ETA movements.
• Towson Watch Company - Nifty styles in some cases, very Breguet-esque in others. ETA 2824 movements.
• Orient - I've heard of them more than I know about them.
• Casio - G-Shock is notable in the main for all the features and durability that's offered in a very, very affordable watch.
• Sinn - The U12 is a interesting looking watches, but of greater import is their innovative technology set. I can't being to spell or recall all the silly names they have for it, but check it out: http://www.watchbuys.com/store/pc/Si...logies-d76.htm
• Deep Blue - if you need a watch you can see in the dark and Ball is too pricey, look no further. These folks make divers watches for serious divers, rather than for folks whose sole diving event consists, at best, of jumping off the board overhanging their swimming pool. $1K will get you their top end product right now. ETA 2824 movements. Lots of fun face colors and the glow in the dark, tritium dials and markers are simply a joy to behold. All that plus a very handsome looking watch that closely resembles a Rolex Sub. As their watches list at $2K but are on sale right now, I'd say this may well be the best bargain I've come across lately.
• Muhle - Another company from Glashutte, the center of German watchmaking. Excellent products and very sane prices (starting at ~$1.5K) and a broad assortment of styles. They used modified out-of-house movements from Selitta.
• Luminox - another company that is in the nighttime visibility niche.
• Hager - $500 truly military watch (yes there are other true military watches). Two styles, both being more or less divers, great glow in the dark and low light reflectivity, and one is matte black stainless steel. Considering the price point, it's well worth a look. Their SERE watch was made for a US paramilitary unit, but they are offering the left over ones to the public. It is a numbered, limited edition watch. (http://www.hagerwatches.com/sitemap/page16/)
  
  If you feel like investing (and I don't mean by buying a watch) in a small company, they are seeking investors ($140K is I believe the sum I heard they need) to initiate manufacturing watches. They are in Hagerstown, MD, which is about 70 miles northwest of DC.
• Ball - another credible watchmaker. ETA movements. Oldest (that I know of) American owned watchmaker, though the watches are made in Switzerland. (Prices start ~$1500) They also use tritium to illuminate the watch, but if a dive watch is the desired style, I'd still go with Deep Blue.
• Smiths - This is the brand of watch that Hillary actually wore on Everest. The much touted Rolex was merely carried there.

One of the best posts I've ever read on this website! One point I would make is regarding whether it is appropriate to wear a sports watch with a tux. Part of me agrees, but then I lost interest in watches, sold the 6 I had, and decided to buy just one watch that I feel I could wear in any situation. I ended up with a Rolex GMT Master, as I travel a bit, and I thought it more useful than being able to dive to 300m or time myself. A black face and metal bracelet makes it go with pretty much any outfit, whether it is a suit at work or jeans at the weekend. So I suppose I see my watch more like I see a car, than one of my outfits.. one really should be enough!

[owen2001]

My only quartz watch is this Hamilton Lloyd chrono. It does double-duty as a dress watch or goes well with a polo shirt and jeans. You can buy one new for around $500 - $600 USD. You can find them used on eBay for less than $300.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by owen2001

My only quartz watch is this Hamilton Lloyd chrono. It does double-duty as a dress watch or goes well with a polo shirt and jeans. You can buy one new for around $500 - $600 USD. You can find them used on eBay for less than $300.

I really like the lloyd chrono since I found it a year ago, passed because size of the face seemed pretty small I thought.

[owen2001]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I really like the lloyd chrono since I found it a year ago, passed because size of the face seemed pretty small I thought.

Not too small on my wrist, especially as a dress watch.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by owen2001

Not too small on my wrist, especially as a dress watch.

Hmm I will have to take a look again, as I like that watch.

[finaloption]

i like that too.. i like the case design... too bad it only comes in quartz

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

One of the best posts I've ever read on this website! One point I would make is regarding whether it is appropriate to wear a sports watch with a tux. Part of me agrees, but then I lost interest in watches, sold the 6 I had, and decided to buy just one watch that I feel I could wear in any situation. I ended up with a Rolex GMT Master, as I travel a bit, and I thought it more useful than being able to dive to 300m or time myself. A black face and metal bracelet makes it go with pretty much any outfit, whether it is a suit at work or jeans at the weekend. So I suppose I see my watch more like I see a car, than one of my outfits.. one really should be enough!

There's no denying that at the end of the day, one can wear whatever watch one wants with any outfit. The watch is neither the reason one is at the event (unless perhaps it is a watch-oriented affair) nor is it a reason one would be shunned while there. Even with my fairly rigid dress code sensibilities, I wouldn't think of actually having negative thoughts about a person due to the watch they are wearing. That's just silly and sophomoric to behave and think like that. Yes, I would wonder why a person wearing a mega-thousand dollar sport watch at a dress function didn't buy just a cheap dress watch, but then I wouldn't bother to ask them why the didn't because I know it really doesn't matter. It's just a fashion thing and I certainly don't expect anyone to be fashion conscious as I am. If one is, great, but it's not necessary or expected.

For myself, having an interest in things stylish and having the means to indulge that interest, I am pretty fussy about what I wear along with when and where I wear certain things. I also have quite few occasions to wear a tuxedo -- definitely not as many as orchestra musicians and conductors or certain waiters, but with cultural and charity events along with the holiday season, 20+ a year -- so I just go ahead and wear a formal, super dressy watch. If one only goes to a couple or so such dressy things annually, there's not much reason to buy a watch, much less an expensive one, just to be "fully turned out" on those few nights.

At the end of the day, it makes far more sense to buy a watch that one can wear 80% or 90% of the time and make it do for the remainder of occasions that might come up. I would only in a few cases specifically encourage a friend/acquaintance to buy a fine dress watch:

• The person indicates that's what they want. Nothing wrong here as it's far easier, and more stylish, to dress down a dressy watch than to dress up a casual one. There are just a few types of dress watch that don't dress down well.
• The person is just so flush in disposable income that I know tossing several grand to buy one for just a few times a year isn't going to be an issue for them. Of course this requires that I actually know the person.
• The person asks for overall collection input and what's lacking is a full on dress watch and their collection already has a bunch of pricey watches in it.

For several folks I know who want a truly dressy watch and don't want to spend major bucks ($5K+ is about what I think most folks would call "major"), I have suggested high-end Chinese watches. This has worked out well for a few of them. They get a very nice and nice looking watch that's very well made and they get it for something between $2K and $4K or so. There are also some American and German brands that are good for this purpose too.



Indeed, once one realizes that these days there's almost no such thing as a poor quality watch above the $500 mark, buying a watch from a watchmaker that isn't so well known is one of the very best ways to get a great deal. The only real thing one has to do is make sure the company is actually a watch maker and not just a company that charges mid-range to high prices for something that should be a low priced thing. Stauer is one company that does just that. Even with Stauer, it's not that the watches are crap, it's just that they cost far more than any legit watch company would charge for them. Daniel Steiger is another such company.


But to be sure, my issue with those two brands isn't that they overcharge. It's that they overcharge at low price points. It's an ethical thing in my mind. Watches costing about $100 - $1000 are often bought by consumers who don't have tons of disposable cash to spend on things and not get the maximum value for their dollar. Those folks are looking for and truly deserve and need to get good value. It's different for folks spending $5K+.



The latter group are buying luxury products and they have to know already that a huge part of what their money goes to is just the cache of a given brand's name. They are spending large sums mostly because they can. They don't want a crappy watch, but then at those prices, they won't get one either. I am certain there's not one $5K+ watch on the market that is going to disappoint the person who buys and wears it. Yes, every once in a while, even Rolex and PP and their ilk have a single watch ( out of the however many thousands they make) that is a lemon, but that's not what I'm talking about.


All the best.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by tony20009

At the end of the day, it makes far more sense to buy a watch that one can wear 80% or 90% of the time and make it do for the remainder of occasions that might come up.

All the best.

I think this is what I focussed on when making my decision. I go to a formal event once or twice a year, so a formal dress watch would never be justified to me. I did have a phase where I wanted a watch for each occasion, but I found it got silly, with wanting a brown leather strap for when wearing brown shoes, and a black one for black shoes, a sports watch, and casual watch, a diving watch...Where do you draw the line???

So that's where a steel bracelet sports rolex is a such a good all-round watch- to most people it's never going to look like the wrong watch to have on. Unless you find yourself in the wrong part of town!

After all, if James Bond can wear an Omega with a Tux... good enough for anyone surely!

[fmohajer]

Panerai or IWC…. and of course there's the classic Rolex Submariner…

[rjd598]

What do you guys recommend for a business attire watch that won't break the bank? I've seen a few recommend Hamilton

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by rjd598

What do you guys recommend for a business attire watch that won't break the bank? I've seen a few recommend Hamilton

I like my tissot as well. Lots of nice value watches under 1K.

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I like my tissot as well.

Any specific styles you recommend?

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by rjd598

Any specific styles you recommend?

The one I have is tissot luxury auto. Have to find one that appeals to you. If you want more dress or casual, auto or quartz, leather band or link and so on.

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

The one I have is tissot luxury auto. Have to find one that appeals to you. If you want more dress or casual, auto or quartz, leather band or link and so on.

Thanks for the tip. Hamilton jazzmaster definitely caught my eye but I'll loon into your suggestion as well

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by rjd598

Thanks for the tip. Hamilton jazzmaster definitely caught my eye but I'll loon into your suggestion as well

Jazzmaster looks great as well. I don't have one but like it. Don't think they have a second hand which I prefer.

[tony20009]

Originally Posted by rjd598

What do you guys recommend for a business attire watch that won't break the bank? I've seen a few recommend Hamilton

That sort of depends on the bank.

Mostly, for the typical, traditional business attire (suit and tie with leather soled dress shoes), any non-chunky clean looking watch that fits easily underneath your shirt cuff will be just fine. Simple watches are best, but you can certainly wear a chronograph watch also and it'll be just fine so long as it's still a dress watch overall. Black, white, cream, blue and brown dials are best for most folks, but there are folks who are snazzy enough dressers/characters to pull off more lively colors like red, green, yellow and so on.

The current trend in watches is for non-yellow metals. It's just a trend, however, and it's sure to change at some point. Strap or bracelet, it's up to you. Neither is more or less appropriate, but for business attire, you'll want a black, brown or navy strap if you go that way. Sometimes straps come in rubber. Few rubber straps are a good choice to wear with a suit, but some will work. Here is one that does work. It works because it has several factors collaborating to make it work:

• The watch isn't large, thus making it more a dress watch than a sport watch.
• The detail of the strap is small and refined rather than chunky and sporty.
• The strap is dark in color.
• The overall design of the watch and the strap is modern.
• The dial of the watch has a elegant finish and a subtle pattern that make the watch face look dressier.

One word about rubber strapped watches. The rubber strap is nearly always cut to fit the wearer. If you are going to buy a used one, make sure there's enough strap left to still fit your wrist. If you buy a new one, just be aware of that in case you later want to sell it.




Some straps are cloth. The NATO or military style is a bit casual for most folks to wear with a suit, but again, if you have the savior faire for it, it's possible you could pull it off. The grosgrain straps that were quite popular in the '80s are still acceptable for business attire, but they must be accompanied by a very simple, very conservative watch. Here are a couple examples. Just be aware that it takes a good amount of style sense to make something like these looks work. It won't come off well with just any old watch stuck on any old grosgrain strap.



The other current watch trend is for large diameter watches. That trend has slightly begun to ebb. Whatever you've heard/read about watch sizes and wrist diameters, ignore it. You'll know the right size and whether it looks/feels good on your wrist when you try the thing on. Some watches are big and "wear" smaller than their numeric dimensions would suggest. The same is true for smaller watches. FWIW, 36mm to 40mm is about the standard size for a watch. To be sure, plenty come in 42mm+ size. Over 40mm is "officially" considered large.

In general, any watch style that's named fro some activity is not a dress watch. That would include dive watches, aviator watches, field watches, and so on. The one exception is a tank watch. I don't know why they have a military sounding general name, but "tank" watches are merely rectangular ones.

Some folks have said that if Bond can wear a dive watch to black tie event so they can too. Well if they are as swashbuckling as Bond, perhaps they can. Most folks aren't as sophisticated, or as devoid of character artifice, as Bond and therefore probably shouldn't affect all of his habits.

The thing is this, if one has a specific purpose for wearing a watch, regardless of what it looks like -- Bond's watch was a tricked out watch that did all sorts of things that he conceivably had an immediate or impending need for even though he was at a formal event -- any watch will be okay with whatever one is wearing. For example, if one has a business meeting and right after it, one is going to hop into a Cessna and fly off somewhere, it makes sense to wear one's aviator watch -- regardless of how dressy it is or isn't -- to the meeting than not to and then need it during the flight. If one, during a meeting, has a genuine need for the functionality -- beyond telling time -- of some tool watch, then by all means wear the watch rather than not have the functionality, even if the watch looks like something your ten year old child might prefer.

Here are some pics so you know what I mean by some of the terms above. Of all the watches pictured below, only the tanks, the all purpose watch, and in a pinch the IWC field watch, would be thought dressy. Yet they all are nice looking, nice watches.

Dive watch:
These watches generally are thick and pretty heavy duty. The most common feature they have is a rotating bezel or at least a bezel that looks like it rotates. Check out the Dive Watches thread (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907927) for pics. Most of the ones you'll find there are too sporty for a suit.

Field Watch:
These watches are very basic, all purpose casual watches. They are notable in that the are quite unnoticeable and by the general style of the dial/face and case. They don't call much attention to themselves. They may or may not have numerals on the dial. The dressiest of them could get by in a pinch as a dress watch, but the general feel of them isn't dressy at all.






Tank Watches:
These are just rectangular watches. Most, but not all, tend to be more dressy than casual. The Cartier Tank watch is probably the most iconic tank watch. Damn near any company that makes watches makes a tank watch.



Aviators Watches:
These watches are characterized by all the "stuff" that's on their face/dial. I can't tell you what all those digits are for, but I can tell you the look isn't very dressy. Breitling is probably the big name in these types of wathces.



Military watches:
Military watches are basically dive watches or field watches that have been tweaked to better suit the stealth needs of combat soldiers. The non-reflective coatings and cloth straps are their most commonly noticed features (although neither is necessarily required). There other features that are typically required by governments when they are specifying designs for the military.




All purpose watch:
These are watches that aren't particularly dressy, but they aren't particularly sporty either. Probably the quintessential all purpose watch is the Rolex Datejust. There are tons of brands that make a watch that more or less resembles this look. Some have numbers. Some have markers. Some have dates and others don't. Some have second hands and some don't. Technically, every watch that Rolex makes in their Oyster line -- the Datejust is one -- are sport watches. They are technically sport watches because they were designed to be just that. Times have changed and now this style is considered acceptable for pretty much any occasion by most folks.




Well, there you have it. If you come across any watch that isn't a field, aviator's or dive/military watch, it's going to do just fine as a dress watch.

Having shared the above with you, there is one other thing I think worth saying. Nobody is going to shun you regardless of what watch you wear with your suit, and if they do, they are the jerk for it. Folks like me that are "into watches" and "into fashion" have general guidelines about what goes with what and what's dress versus casual and so on. All the same, any of us "watchonistas" or "fashionistas" who recognize that people are far more important than things will plainly tell you that at the end of the day, you need to wear and choose things that are comfortable for you, work sensibly with your lifestyle and personality and that are easily affordable to you. Whereas folks like me will spend silly sums on stuff like cars, homes, watches, clothing, etc., those of us with the sense God gave a goose know better than to expect or demand that others do so too.

So, yes, the info I shared above is pretty much the "chapter and verse" on what's what re: watches and business attire from the viewpoint of someone who's very traditional in many things sartorial. Do you have to follow it? No. Should you follow it? Only if it's comfortable for you to do so. The fact is that if I had only one watch, regardless of what it looks like, if I needed to tell the time of day, I'd wear it everywhere I needed to have a watch handy.

If you are going to follow any of it, by far the most important bit to follow is that for business you choose something that's subtle. That can mean subtly elegant, subtly casual, etc. It doesn't mean boring; it doesn't mean devoid of flair; it just means subtle.

Note: The watches I pictured above were not meant as specific suggestions but rather just to illustrate different styles and looks.

All the best.