[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

I was watching the Tonight Show last night and Chris Rock was on it. When Jay asked him "what do you think of Obama? Do you think America is ready for him?" and Chris Rock answered "Is America ready for a black president? Well we just had a retarded one, a black president is surely acceptable." I found that hilarious.

LOL! i'd be interested to hear what people think of obama.
I guess his name is the first turn off. I met people who confused him with Osama!

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Funny, but sadly, the effects of the retarder policy will be felt later...not now... Again, sadly, the retard will blame it on someone else, so...

What I dont understand is even though we disagree with so many things the government has done yet we're not really doing anything about it. It's like just sitting there watching the days go by. I sure as hell hope the next president will do this country some good.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

What I dont understand is even though we disagree with so many things the government has done yet we're not really doing anything about it. It's like just sitting there watching the days go by. I sure as hell hope the next president will do this country some good.

I agree, that is the negative thing about American population (in General) that I have learned ove the last 16 years living here -- you can sell them anything if well marketed. And then, even if proven wrong, as long as it currently does not affect me badly, I will ignore it and come with the comments like :If you don't like it, move to Canada..."

Remember, how well the Government marketed the Iraq war -- every day bad things about SH, Chemical Ali, and so on. Every day showing the brutality of the regime, then slide in the 9/11 stuff. Of course that some will connect those and start believeing in what they see.

The USA has the best MArketing and media tools in the world, no question about that.

BTW, what can we do about Bush? By the time you prove that he lied (knowlingly), that he ordered bad things, that he profitted of middle class suffering, and so on, 10+ years will pass. In a mean time, he will put the blame on someone else -- Tenet, Libby, previous admin, Current Congress...

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

What I dont understand is even though we disagree with so many things the government has done yet we're not really doing anything about it. It's like just sitting there watching the days go by. I sure as hell hope the next president will do this country some good.

as long as people can pay their bills they dont give a crap what happens.
people are lazy by nature, they dont want to confront things, they just complain

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by mantisG35

the least is multiplying school tuition, much more restricted financial aid, and the most is pretty much no freedom of speech due to patriot act

I do not mean to devalue the issues you think are important but college tuition rates are really not an issue for the nation at large nor are they a federal responsibility.

I would also ask you to read the Patriot Act and tell me which provision limits your freedom of speech.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by dr325i

I agree, that is the negative thing about American population (in General) that I have learned ove the last 16 years living here -- you can sell them anything if well marketed. And then, even if proven wrong, as long as it currently does not affect me badly, I will ignore it and come with the comments like :If you don't like it, move to Canada..."

Remember, how well the Government marketed the Iraq war -- every day bad things about SH, Chemical Ali, and so on. Every day showing the brutality of the regime, then slide in the 9/11 stuff. Of course that some will connect those and start believeing in what they see.

The USA has the best MArketing and media tools in the world, no question about that.

BTW, what can we do about Bush? By the time you prove that he lied (knowlingly), that he ordered bad things, that he profitted of middle class suffering, and so on, 10+ years will pass. In a mean time, he will put the blame on someone else -- Tenet, Libby, previous admin, Current Congress...

True. They really do know how to put fear in people and use that to their advantage. It saddens me sometimes to hear about all the corruptions (using the word loosely here) that have been happening. Im sure all of us heard about the firing of the attorneys and the general admitted that he knew nothing about it. Then a week later an email surfaced which proved that he knew about it.

Then some dude in the government was about to go to jail for committing perjury (as best as I can recall) and Bush pardoned him. Im losing faith in the government more and more each day. We always take forever to do simple things and take even longer to do good things. So much for a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people".

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by mantisG35

as long as people can pay their bills they dont give a crap what happens.
people are lazy by nature, they dont want to confront things, they just complain

It's because we are scared and we dont have the resources to do anything about it. The people that have the resources basically run the government so it'd be tough going up against them. They also have something on us that we cant put on them: fear.

But I must admit that our nation tends to go by the motto "someone else will take care of it." We never take a proactive approach to anything. We always wait until someone brings a certain issue to our attention and even then if we think it wont affect us, the issue's just fell on deaf's ear.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by ganeil

I do not mean to devalue the issues you think are important but college tuition rates are really not an issue for the nation at large nor are they a federal responsibility.

I would also ask you to read the Patriot Act and tell me which provision limits your freedom of speech.

you can be jailed or deported for no reason. they can jail you without telling you why you are jailed, and they can take away your right from having a trial.

the question is why do we have to sacrifice ANYTHING, regardless how big it is. We should move forward, not backwards. We're obviously losing the war, so why keep draining this country and the army?

the thought that we're superman and we can invade any country is just not realistic. Vietnam was first lesson, now we're having 2nd and 3rd lessons together (afg, and iraq)

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by mantisG35

you can be jailed or deported for no reason. they can jail you without telling you why you are jailed, and they can take away your right from having a trial.

No they can't. I do not know who is telling you this but I suggest you recheck your source for this and then read the act yourself. It does nothing like you claim.

the question is why do we have to sacrifice ANYTHING, regardless how big it is. We should move forward, not backwards. We're obviously losing the war, so why keep draining this country and the army?

the thought that we're superman and we can invade any country is just not realistic. Vietnam was first lesson, now we're having 2nd and 3rd lessons together (afg, and iraq)

What metric are you using to conclude that we are "obviously losing the war"?

We lost in Vietnam because we quit the field of battle, if we do the same here the results will, I concede ,be the same.

[!Xoible]

Originally Posted by ganeil

No they can't. I do not know who is telling you this but I suggest you recheck your source for this and then read the act yourself. It does nothing like you claim.



What metric are you using to conclude that we are "obviously losing the war"?

We lost in Vietnam because we quit the field of battle, if we do the same here the results will, I concede ,be the same.

I know of more than 15 people from Moroccan origin who were jailed or deported although they were legally present in the US with valid visas.

You already lost in iraq, you should try to win politically now

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by mantisG35

I know of more than 15 people from Moroccan origin who were jailed or deported although they were legally present in the US with valid visas.

You already lost in iraq, you should try to win politically now

The Patriot Act does allow the government to detain non-US citizens for up to seven days if they are suspected of terrorism. Once the seven days is over they must either be criminally charged, released, or deported. I may not agree with this provision but it is clearly not a violation of the First Amendment.

I ask again, by what measure have we lost in Iraq?

[!Xoible]

american casualties, deaths, $$$, and the fact that nothing has been accomplished except for sectarian pro-iran government and a huge presence of islamic militant groups everywhere. how did you win?!

the US needs to win politically so peace is established. if there's no peace, there will always be militant groups

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by mantisG35

american casualties, deaths, $$$, and the fact that nothing has been accomplished except for sectarian pro-iran government and a huge presence of islamic militant groups everywhere. how did you win?!

the US needs to win politically so peace is established. if there's no peace, there will always be militant groups

(EDIT: Compared to previous wars, the cost of the current war is extremely low both in terms of soldiers' lives and taxpayer dollars. Even in the midst of this war our total defense spending is only 4% of GDP compared to 6+% during the "peaceful" 1980's. These are not numbers that reflect a war lost.)

The political is dependent on the military. We cannot solve Iraq's political issues for them but we can certainly set the conditions for those political issues to be resolved. That is the basis for GEN Patraeus' strategy and there are very good indications that it is working. We can help remove the external forces that have been the source of a large portion of the instability inside Iraq and create a buffer between the internal factions until they resolve their differences politically. If you read about the success we have had recently in converting the Sunni tribes in Anbar and Diyala away from supporting al Qaeda to active opposition to them, the key to this success has been our commitment to remain once al Qaeda left the area. The Sunnis have come to understand that al Qaeda's objectives were not their own but they did not have the strength to remove them from their midst without outside help. They do not yet trust the Shi'ite dominated government forces (for good reason) but they are beginning to trust us. This trust is indispensable to defeating al Qaeda and subsequently creating stability for political progress.

If the Sunnis grow to trust us and the Shi'ite's trust improves as al Qaeda is less capable of targeting them (the Kurds do generally trust us) then we have set conditions were no one side feels threatened by the others and political issues can be resolved. An Iraq where Sunnis do not feel they have to rely on foreign forces like al Qaeda to protect them from Shi'ite and Shi'ite do not feel they need Iranian support to protect them from the Sunni and the Kurds do not feel threatened by the Arabs is success for us.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by mantisG35

american casualties, deaths, $$$, and the fact that nothing has been accomplished except for sectarian pro-iran government and a huge presence of islamic militant groups everywhere. how did you win?!

the US needs to win politically so peace is established. if there's no peace, there will always be militant groups

read below..."we can help remove..."
In 5 years we only made it worse, and now ANYONE expects in 2 years (that are left) that we will clean them all and make it better. What a BS talk that NO ONE buys any more. One thing is certain -- in two years (that are left for the criminal), nothing will progress in Iraq, then, the Dems will take over and will pull out (eventually), then the blame will fall on them (as ganeil already pointed out that Vietnam was lost because we pulled out).
What an EMPTY thinking -- 50k people died in Vietnam, but that was not enough, just for the price of celebrating the victory... Lives are not important any more, just to say WE WON. Idiotic thinking of someone who claims that has seen the battle, which I doubt... Otherwise, those pictures remain engraved inside forever and you would NEVER support such a stupid action (called agressive war, not defensive), ever again!

[ganeil]

A new book for those interested in the VP.

[!Xoible]

MY EYES MY EYES!!

my IQ just dropped to ZERO just by looking at that book cover.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by mantisG35

MY EYES MY EYES!!

my IQ just dropped to ZERO just by looking at that book cover.

That would be a drop?

[ATG]

I think I have finally deciphered the true identity of Ganeil. He is Jack Byrnes from Meet the Parents.

[ganeil]

Originally Posted by ATG

I think I have finally deciphered the true identity of Ganeil. He is Jack Byrnes from Meet the Parents.

No, I spent more of my time disagreeing with CIA guys and never desired to be one.